Another question for atheists

[Tnmusicman]

Not knowing WHAT?

ANYTHING!! PICK ONE!! Im not talking about a specific claim im talking about different standards applying to Christians than atheists. The video im talking about was in the comments section of an AronRa video from the reason ralley. I dont know which one but there are several. If you wish to explore,then have fun.

 

[Shane Roach]

How can we tell, you wont' give either a link to the question or what the question is that they're answering "I don't know" to.

Indeed. And yet so many seemed to just knoooow.

 

[Tnmusicman]

How can we tell, you wont' give either a link to the question or what the question is that they're answering "I don't know" to.

yeah,i already said it was from the comments section of an AronRa video at the reason ralley. I dont know which one offhand but im sure you could probably find it.
Thats less important than what im asking about. Im not refering to an actual claim made. Im talking about the standards to which Christians are held to but others are not. My point was,why call my chosen faith a "joke" if I,a follower of that faith,dont know the answer to a question that might not have a black and white answer? Like,what happens after you die? (just as an example )
Note,I cant give you an example on the AronRa video because the person that said Christians were a joke because we dont know the answers to anything wasent refering to a specific question. It was made as an off the cuff remark.

 

[Tnmusicman]

Indeed. And yet so many seemed to just knoooow.

yes,it seems so. I guess even most atheists dont know why there is a double standard even though.....well,you know...them thar fellers being tha smarter ones.

 

[Tnmusicman]

They are highly welcome to say "I don´t know". A lot, however, depends on at which point in the process they give this answer.
Typically, the Christian starts by claiming that "Goddidit" is an explanation for something otherwise unexplained/unexplainable, i.e. they start by claiming they do have an answer to existential questions. In the following, they present a highly complex ideological of supposedly logical chains. It´s not until it turns out there is a missing link in those chains (and a logical chain happens to be as weak as its weakest chain) that they admit "I don´t know". It´s the moment when "Godditit" turns out to be not the explanation it was claimed to be, but just a spaceholder for "I don´t know". At this point the Christian admits that they are as empty-handed when it comes to existential questions as everybody else.

Not saying that this is always so. Just saying that this is when I personally consider the "I don´t know" from a Christian as an admission of defeat.

Why does it always have to be a win/lose situation?? Admiting defeat is not the issue,its the fact that some can admit defeat and its ok,but Christians admiting that they dont know answers to questions that,frankly,dont have answers are assessed as being a joke.
Granted,certain members of certain groups will be a bit prigish at times but the BULK of atheists (that IVE dealt with--not ALL) seem to fall into a self-righteous pattern when they feel that their "unanswerable" question has foiled another.
Im the first to admit there are good christians and bad christians just like there are good atheists and bad atheists but it seems EVERY time i go on youtube I have to hear from the bad atheists. I can recall twice that I dealt with an atheist that was polite and respectful and we agreed to disagree. Oh,btw this all comes from a christian that doesnt "preach" to atheists or anyone else,but if you ask me my opinion,I will tell you.

 

[Tnmusicman]

It's not that Christian's can't answer, "I don't know", it's that they very rarely do. Rather, these vocal Christians pretend as if they do have all the answers, spouting all sorts of nonsense and pseudo-science. When probed, their specious arguments inevitably fall apart like ash.

I've seen Christians on here say, "I don't know", and that's an absolutely fine answer - it's the logical default, it's the only rational thing to say when, well, we don't know.

The issue is when you get people pretending that they have all the answers, when they don't. Atheists are more likely to say "I don't know", while Christians are not, hence the observed difference.

Of course, this isn't a universal trend - some atheists act like they know everything, when in fact their arguments are baloney. All camps have those vocal idiots. Frankly, you should be applauding those people - atheist, Christian, whatever - for showing the liars for what they really are.

Yes,but by our admission of Christian faith its expected of us,apparently. I can be honest and say "ive read the bible cover to cover 3 times and I dont know the bulk of whats in it." Thats not for any reason other than the fact I cant retain THAT much knowledge. As you know the bible is quite large. That notwithstanding,my point is that I wonder WHY there is the double standard. Not unsuprisingly,when I asked this question to youtube atheists i got rather "colourful" answers that cant be repeated here (lest i be censored) and I wonder is the quality of answers going to be any better on here?

 

[Tnmusicman]

This issue isn't that you can't claim not to know something.

The issue is that you can't back up what you do claim to know.

Once again,read what Im actually asking. Im not making a claim and I know that christians make claims. This is neither related to that nor am i asking anything about that. Im asking about why a double standard exists.

 

[Tnmusicman]

QFT

Yes,thats all fine and well but my question was only about why double standards exist for Christians. Nothing to do with arrogance or saying "those darn atheists dont know_________?"
It would be appreciated if a supposed christian wouldnt infer something false.

 

[Blayz]

For the umpteenth time there is no double standard. Christians (or more specifically Creationists) NEVER respond with "I don't know" to these questions. If they did then us atheists would find it perfectly acceptable.

The fact that they are never willing to admit "I don't know" is pretty much the dictionary definition of arrogance.

 

[Mling]

It's hard to respond without knowing specifics, but there are a lot of different ways that "I don't know," can be used.

When scientifically minded people respond to a question with, "I don't know, and neither do you," it means that the thing is truly unknown--that any explanation for it is either a story or a guess, because there's no way a person could know it It means that there is no shame in not knowing it. In fact, recognizing that you don't know it is a vital step to eventually figuring it out. "I don't know" is the best thing you could say in this situation.

When people answer questions about religious theology with "I don't know," they often mean, "I don't know how this could be, but I believe it anyway." Example: "How does the Trinity "work?" Does Jesus, as God, worship himself or what?" It's impossible to not understand your own beliefs--they exist in your head, after all. If a person claims to believe in something, but it turns out that they don't know what the thing actually is, they're just parroting what they've been told, without thought.*

Or, they might mean, "I don't know how my beliefs could possibly be true, given this fact/new idea, but I'm going to continue believing what I do, anyway, because it's easier than addressing the conflict." Like, if somebody claimed that everything happens for a good reason, like a mother dying forcing her husband to be a better father. If somebody pointed out that it's evil to treat one person's life as if it's less important than a single lesson another person might learn, and asked how God could be good if they do this, and the person responded with, "I don't know, but he is," that's just a cop out.

Or, maybe they're answering "I don't know," in a perfectly reasonable way, like "What existed before the Big Bang?" "I don't know."

I think most atheists would be delighted to hear a Christian admit to having a human level of ignorance. But the sorts of people who get in debates like this seldom do, so I suspect that's not what we're talking about.

*This is very different than accepting real data which proves that something un-understood is going on. A fair number of scientists accept that something out there is creating the phenomena we call "dark matter" and "dark energy." We don't know many details about what this stuff is, but we can accept, or "believe," that something is causing this data, and we're calling those somethings dark matter and dark energy, until more data reveals more about these phenomena.)

 

[Tnmusicman]

For the umpteenth time there is no double standard. Christians (or more specifically Creationists) NEVER respond with "I don't know" to these questions. If they did then us atheists would find it perfectly acceptable.

The fact that they are never willing to admit "I don't know" is pretty much the dictionary definition of arrogance.

Maybe in YOUR world christians don't say i dont know.
Perhaps in the REAL world it's a bit different.
Perhaps that has been your experiance.

 

[variant]

Once again,read what Im actually asking. Im not making a claim and I know that christians make claims. This is neither related to that nor am i asking anything about that. Im asking about why a double standard exists.

I can't actually resond to your first post because I can't seem to verify what you are talking about.

In your question you certianly don't prove a double standard was ever used as you don't even give the example, so your question is unanswerable. With specifics we could talk about context and wether the standards used in those contexts were aplicable or fair. What I can't do is broaden that context to every atheist everywhere being answerable for the standards one atheist uses in one context that I don't know about.

And, as I said, (and as the only answer I can give) the main difference between atheism and theism is how claims are supported. So, it might or might not be a cop out for the theist to say "I don't know" in this case. OR, If I know the person you are commoneting on, he might just be demonstrateing how little real world explaination power a particular christian "alternative" to science actually has.

 

[yasic]

So in order to tell if what you claim is true or not (or if you are misunderstanding it), you expect us to search through various videos until we can find an issue that might not even exist?

Seriously, if you want to ask why atheists do X, take the time and actually find us an example. Otherwise admit that you cannot produce anything to substantiate the claim that any such double standard exists.

 

[Tnmusicman]

It's hard to respond without knowing specifics, but there are a lot of different ways that "I don't know," can be used.

When scientifically minded people respond to a question with, "I don't know, and neither do you," it means that the thing is truly unknown--that any explanation for it is either a story or a guess, because there's no way a person could know it It means that there is no shame in not knowing it. In fact, recognizing that you don't know it is a vital step to eventually figuring it out. "I don't know" is the best thing you could say in this situation.

When people answer questions about religious theology with "I don't know," they often mean, "I don't know how this could be, but I believe it anyway." Example: "How does the Trinity "work?" Does Jesus, as God, worship himself or what?" It's impossible to not understand your own beliefs--they exist in your head, after all. If a person claims to believe in something, but it turns out that they don't know what the thing actually is, they're just parroting what they've been told, without thought.*

Or, they might mean, "I don't know how my beliefs could possibly be true, given this fact/new idea, but I'm going to continue believing what I do, anyway, because it's easier than addressing the conflict." Like, if somebody claimed that everything happens for a good reason, like a mother dying forcing her husband to be a better father. If somebody pointed out that it's evil to treat one person's life as if it's less important than a single lesson another person might learn, and asked how God could be good if they do this, and the person responded with, "I don't know, but he is," that's just a cop out.

Or, maybe they're answering "I don't know," in a perfectly reasonable way, like "What existed before the Big Bang?" "I don't know."

I think most atheists would be delighted to hear a Christian admit to having a human level of ignorance. But the sorts of people who get in debates like this seldom do, so I suspect that's not what we're talking about.

*This is very different than accepting real data which proves that something un-understood is going on. A fair number of scientists accept that something out there is creating the phenomena we call "dark matter" and "dark energy." We don't know many details about what this stuff is, but we can accept, or "believe," that something is causing this data, and we're calling those somethings dark matter and dark energy, until more data reveals more about these phenomena.)

FINALLY!!!! Thank you for at least trying to answer my question. I think your answers were informative. See,what so often happens is that it's presumed because someone is Christian they know ALL the bible and have alot of answers but it's possible the christian in question is a new Christian and not familiar with certain things that most people assume they should be.

I agree that a somewhat seasoned Christian should know certain things but when it comes to the Christian faith there is ALOT to know.
I don't agree that atheists don't have to know anything as stated by someone else. I thank you for shedding some light on things.

 

[pgp_protector]

ANYTHING!! PICK ONE!! Im not talking about a specific claim im talking about different standards applying to Christians than atheists. The video im talking about was in the comments section of an AronRa video from the reason ralley. I dont know which one but there are several. If you wish to explore,then have fun.

Ok I'll pick one.
I've seen atheist ask why do you believe in God, your answer is I'm guessing "I Don't Know" so yea that answer is mockable

 

[Tnmusicman]

It's hard to respond without knowing specifics, but there are a lot of different ways that "I don't know," can be used.

When scientifically minded people respond to a question with, "I don't know, and neither do you," it means that the thing is truly unknown--that any explanation for it is either a story or a guess, because there's no way a person could know it It means that there is no shame in not knowing it. In fact, recognizing that you don't know it is a vital step to eventually figuring it out. "I don't know" is the best thing you could say in this situation.

When people answer questions about religious theology with "I don't know," they often mean, "I don't know how this could be, but I believe it anyway." Example: "How does the Trinity "work?" Does Jesus, as God, worship himself or what?" It's impossible to not understand your own beliefs--they exist in your head, after all. If a person claims to believe in something, but it turns out that they don't know what the thing actually is, they're just parroting what they've been told, without thought.*

Or, they might mean, "I don't know how my beliefs could possibly be true, given this fact/new idea, but I'm going to continue believing what I do, anyway, because it's easier than addressing the conflict." Like, if somebody claimed that everything happens for a good reason, like a mother dying forcing her husband to be a better father. If somebody pointed out that it's evil to treat one person's life as if it's less important than a single lesson another person might learn, and asked how God could be good if they do this, and the person responded with, "I don't know, but he is," that's just a cop out.

Or, maybe they're answering "I don't know," in a perfectly reasonable way, like "What existed before the Big Bang?" "I don't know."

I think most atheists would be delighted to hear a Christian admit to having a human level of ignorance. But the sorts of people who get in debates like this seldom do, so I suspect that's not what we're talking about.

*This is very different than accepting real data which proves that something un-understood is going on. A fair number of scientists accept that something out there is creating the phenomena we call "dark matter" and "dark energy." We don't know many details about what this stuff is, but we can accept, or "believe," that something is causing this data, and we're calling those somethings dark matter and dark energy, until more data reveals more about these phenomena.)

For the umpteenth time there is no double standard. Christians (or more specifically Creationists) NEVER respond with "I don't know" to these questions. If they did then us atheists would find it perfectly acceptable.

The fact that they are never willing to admit "I don't know" is pretty much the dictionary definition of arrogance.

For the umpteenth time I didn't say one word about creation claims!

 

[Tnmusicman]

Ok I'll pick one.
I've seen atheist ask why do you believe in God, your answer is I'm guessing "I Don't Know" so yea that answer is mockable

Yeeeeeeah,that's your problem. You ASSUME that's MY answer. If it were my answer then yeah, that wouldn't be a good thing. It's becoming increasingly apparent that you don't understand the original question,nor have any of the subsequent posts given you a clue to what's being asked.

 

[pgp_protector]

Yeeeeeeah,that's your problem. You ASSUME that's MY answer. If it were my answer then yeah, that wouldn't be a good thing. It's becoming increasingly apparent that you don't understand the original question,nor have any of the subsequent posts given you a clue to what's being asked.

You told me to pick a question where Christians were answering I Don't know, I picked a question just like you asked.

 

[Going Merry]

I sort of laugh at the arguments on youtube to be honest... i've studied a whole lot so when i see them speak on both sides its like >_> neither of them know their material lol

 

[Blayz]

Maybe in YOUR world christians don't say i dont know.

My world is this site, and sites like it.

Perhaps in the REAL world it's a bit different.

You mean like youtube?