Another Example of Intolerable Extremists

[Astrid]

Who is the government restricting from freely practicing their religion?

Well, howabout a cannibal religion.

 

[Pommer]

oh brother, im having a very hard time keeping my mouth in check here. I would have to go back to certain articles and news reports to show that to you,

Yes, our fellow poster is asking for you to support your assertions, like a good forum member would do, since it conforms to the style of debating in a forum.

it would be much easier if you weren't so lazy and actually watched and kept up with world events, but one example,

This would probably be considered a flame/goad

God says sexual immorality is wrong, and yet in todays military, in some area's to simply wear a cross openly is an affront to the lgbtq+ peoples that have invaded the services so Christians in the service are being told they cannot do things that "offend" lgbtq's, such as openly wearing a cross.

I’m not up on what personal religious items are permissible on military uniforms, can you show us what is?

I would bet my right arm you will not take the time to research this yourself, because as a group, the left is LAZY!!!!

I’m a lefty, does that make me lazy?

 

[Hans Blaster]

"There is no freedom of religion without keeping government out of the religion endorsing business."

Yep, that's what I wrote.

the government can allow individual freedoms without endorsing them, but instead it chooses to simply deny our God given rights!

Yes they can. Now you need to consider what I actually said:

If the government endorses a religious position, then we do *not* have religious freedom.

We as individuals are made in the image of God, our rights come first whether in the service or as a citizen, PERIOD!!

Our legal rights are listed and discussed in the Constitution, etc. The US government take no stand on the existence of your god.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT


This thread had a clean up. The posts flaming were removed along with some of the responses.
Flaming people is a good way to get banned, you know.

Let's stick to the topic which is about a company making dog tags (which are worn by people) with religious symbols or verses on them. They would be sold to anyone.


​

 

[Tinker Grey]

Free of zits
Free from zits

It's all the same

 

[DaisyDay]

I am NOT saying they should allow anything on an animals tags, on a soldiers tags or anything of the sort!
what I AM saying is that the military has been slowly and methodically taking God OUT of the military for the last 20 years by not allowing certain things to be worn, or read!!

I have not ever heard that the military didn't allow "certain things" to be read. Could you please explain? I'm pretty sure that the military, at least in the last century, has had rules about what could and could not be worn while in uniform.

When I served, I served for the good of my country not my government, and even though I was under their control, I and ALL soldiers have personal freedoms, the MOST important being freedom OF OF OF religion not FROM religion.

Well, no, atheists and the like also have religious freedom which includes freedom from religion - no one can be forced, legally, to worship any god or gods.

you guys are on a CHRISTIAN forum, and yet many of you almost sound like you think the government should have the right to tell a soldier what he can and cannot worship!

Hey congrats on joining this forum as of last Tuesday! If you think that is what people are saying, then you should read a little closer for comprehension because that wasn't said or implied.

 

[DaisyDay]

you REALLY need to go back to High school and study harder in your civics class

@Astrid is from Hong Kong (location available on profile) so your insult about civics class is unwarranted. I daresay she knows a heck of a lot more about American civics than you or I know about Hong Kong's.

 

[MForbes]

I have not ever heard that the military didn't allow "certain things" to be read. Could you please explain? I'm pretty sure that the military, at least in the last century, has had rules about what could and could not be worn while in uniform.

Yeah, waitingforourLord isn’t explaining what the regulation really is…..just twisting it.

While in uniform, a service member can wear any type of necklace they want……as long as it is not exposed and worn underneath the uniform. By regulation you cannot openly display anything worn around your neck. This includes your dog tags. Once out of uniform, you can openly display anything worn around your neck.

Spent 20 years in the service. I know what I’m talking about.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are NO limitations on the worship the God of the bible in OUR country, PERIOD

So long as you don't interfere in the religious freedoms of others. Like all of our freedoms, they cannot violate the freedom of others.

the government can allow individual freedoms without endorsing them, but instead it chooses to simply deny our God given rights!

It does happen from time to time...

TROY, ALA., SEPT. 1 -- As the only Jewish students in the rural Pike County public schools, the Herring children say they have learned a great deal about religion -- the fundamentalist Christian variety.

When Paul Herring, 14, was sent to the school office to be disciplined for disrupting class, he was ordered by the vice principal to write an essay on "Why Jesus Loves Me." When David Herring, 13, failed to bow his head during a school assembly prayer, a teacher allegedly reached over and lowered it for him. After Sarah Herring, 11, heard a minister deliver a fire-and-brimstone sermon at her elementary school, she said, she had nightmares for weeks about burning in hell.

The children's parents, Sue and Wayne Willis, said they have complained frequently about the activities, as well as name-calling and other alleged abuse by other students, only to be dismissed as troublemakers and to be told, "This is how we do things in Alabama."
Recently, aided by the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, they filed suit in U.S. District Court against the school system for violating their children's religious freedom and persecuting them for being Jewish. The suit asks that the religious practices and persecution be stopped at once, but does not ask for any specific monetary damages.
...
On one occasion, the suit charges, Paul's teacher ordered him to remove a Star of David lapel pin he was wearing because she said it was a prohibited gang symbol; on another, a teacher responded to Sue Willis's complaints by allegedly replying, "If parents will not save souls, we have to."
The Willises said teachers and principals often have done little or nothing to prevent students from harassing the children, particularly Paul and David, who, like Sarah, are Sue Willis's children from an earlier marriage. According to the suit, the two boys have been taunted as "Jewish jokers" and "Jew boys"; swastikas have been drawn on their lockers, book bags and jackets; and their yarmulkes have been ripped from their heads during High Holy Days, as classmates played "keep away" with them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1997/09/02/tough-lessons-in-an-alabama-town/62a9e5cd-256c-4491-bb88-4ef1d9128a3a/

Ron Avi Astor, a professor at the University of Southern California who studies school violence, finds the survey results unsurprising. "I get lots of calls from schools and school districts. There's been a two-year spike in school bullying and harassment, and right now there is a generalized climate of permission to say hateful things to other groups that are deemed as 'different.'" While Astor said that many groups, especially Jewish, Latino and undocumented children, have also been the target of hateful remarks, he acknowledges that Muslim children are often under particular stress as many of them come from immigrant families.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/03/29/515451746/muslim-schoolchildren-bullied-by-fellow-students-and-teachers

Sadly, it's human nature for majority groups to persecute minorities. They often respond to being called out by claiming that their own religious freedom is being violated if they can't continue.

 

[RileyG]

Freedom of religion but not for those dirty atheists.

All means all. Atheists most definitely included

 

[keith99]

The Bill of Rights guarantees freedom FROM religion before it mentions freedom OF religion. Both are essential freedoms.



Well. let's take a look...

Amendment I​

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Maybe you should read it again. I bolded in red the part that assures freedom from religion, and bolded in blue the part that assures freedom of religion. The state can neither impose religion on us, nor can it stop us from exercising our religion.

And no, it's not violating your freedom of religion, when the state keeps you from imposing your religion on others. The Founders anticipated that tyrants would try both of those violations, and made sure to prohibit them.

It just struck me that the way this is written one can cherry pick to only have freedom from religion but that the same does not work for freedom of religion!

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion' can stand alone. 'or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' cannot. It makes no sense without the former.

 

[The Barbarian]

It just struck me that the way this is written one can cherry pick and to only have freedom from religion but that the same does not work for freedom of religion!

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion' can stand alone. 'or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' cannot. It makes no sense without the former.

That's why it specifically provides for both freedoms. Founder's intent.

 

[The Barbarian]

All means all. Atheists most definitely included

Agnostics, too. As one jurist put it, "you're free to worship any god you're not sure exists."

 

[Astrid]

you REALLY need to go back to High school and study harder in your civics class

Civics in Hong Kong isn't about America.
But I end up knowing more of American
law anyway.

As does everyone else trying to explain..

 

[MForbes]

Civics in Hong Kong isn't about America.
But I end up knowing more of American
law anyway.

As does everyone else trying to explain..

I’m willing to bet you know more about U.S. civics than the average American.

 

[Laodicean60]

When I served my country, I wasn't doing it for my government, I was doing it for her people, people made in the image of God

Aren't all people created in the image of God? Even the ones our government tells you to kill?

 

[MForbes]

Aren't all people created in the image of God? Even the ones our government tells you to kill?

All people have been created the same, but I’m hoping you’re not trying to bring pacifism into this thread.

 

[Astrid]

I’m willing to bet you know more about U.S. civics than the average American.

D---ing with faint praise huh?

 

[Desk trauma]

I’m willing to bet you know more about U.S. civics than the average American.

Low bar that.

 

[The Barbarian]

All people have been created the same, but I’m hoping you’re not trying to bring pacifism into this thread.

What would Jesus do?
"But God, you have to be practical."

War is an ugly, nasty business. "Gott mitt Uns" is not an American notion.