Annihilationism

What is your view of the final state of the unrepentant.

  • Annihilationism (I believe the unrepentant will be destroyed)

    Votes: 26 46.4%
  • Traditionalism (I believe the unrepentant will suffer eternal conscious torment in hell)

    Votes: 27 48.2%
  • Universalism (I believe that everyone will eventually be saved)

    Votes: 3 5.4%

  • Total voters
    56
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ClothedInGrace

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None the less, there are hints to 'universalism' in Scripture.
And i personally hope EVERY human will be saved, albeit THROUGH the Fire perhaps.
Let's not forget that there are many false teachers to blame, not necessarily the mislead.
John 3:16
God loved THE WORLD so much, not just believers.
But the condition is belief in Christ though, in the same verse.


You see, i hardly know any believers, i practically only know unbelievers (in real life).
And why was Israel not allowed to cheer about the Egyptians deaths?
"They are my children too" God said.
I love the people in my community.
But they're blind(ed), like i used to be.
So i'm a conditionalist, but i hope for universalism to be true.
Except obviously for those who really don't want to once they see.

I don't know...
But i believe God is good and loving and just.
It seems to me that 'not getting it' in our puny 80 years on the timeline doesn't justify being destroyed.
But i could be wrong.

I have tried, when i found myself believing in the 'traditional' view, to see the Love of God, but i couldn't see it anymore.
I hated God for it.
A puny 80 years on the timeline and 'not getting it' just doesn't justify an eternal life in torture, forever, endlessly.
It would be pointless too.
And so, hating God for that would mean i would end up being tortured forever too, you see.
So you can imagine the struggle i have had with the 'traditional' fallacy.

I think people fail to realise what it would mean, to have a place somewhere where people you have known and loved (like God commanded !) but who didn't hear the Word, being tortured for ever, eternally, without an end or outcome, without a purpose, while the saved are in a good place with God, praising Him.

Think about it.
Your view of Hell is not that important; just study the scriptures and pray to God for an understanding of the truth. What matters most is whether you believe the Gospel or not, and whether or not you rest in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Hieronymus

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What I am saying is that we can disagree.
Sure.

But my view as i wrote it is pointing out the problems with the 'traditional' view.
Who loves his fellow human as God commanded can hardly come to terms with the implications of the 'traditional' view.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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Sure.

But my view as i wrote it is pointing out the problems with the 'traditional' view.
Who loves his fellow human as God commanded can hardly come to terms with the implications of the 'traditional' view.
The only difference between Traditionalism and Conditionalism is the state of those cast in the lake of fire: will they be alive forever in it, or will they die?
 
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Hieronymus

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The only difference between Traditionalism and Conditionalism is the state of those cast in the lake of fire: will they be alive forever in it, or will they die?
That's obviously a HUGE difference.
As i closed my thoughts about it: Think about it.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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That's obviously a HUGE difference.
As i closed my thoughts about it: Think about it.
True, but you seemed uneasy with the idea that people you knew and loved would be in the lake of fire. People WILL be sent there, but their suffering will end with their death. Universalism would reject the belief that anyone would die, as Universalism requires universal immortality, as does Traditionalism. Does it comfort you to know that the wicked will be dead and not in ECT?
 
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Chootas

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How would the Annihilists view the passage in Matthew 25 and in particular verse 46 where Jesus himself, speaking to the multitudes says " And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" ?

Previously in verse 41 Jesus says "Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" , speaking regarding the eventual judgment of all nations.

Just keen to understand some variant interpretations of this scripture.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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How would the Annihilists view the passage in Matthew 25 and in particular verse 46 where Jesus himself, speaking to the multitudes says " And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" ?

Previously in verse 41 Jesus says "Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" , speaking regarding the eventual judgment of all nations.

Just keen to understand some variant interpretations of this scripture.
The punishment of the second death is everlasting/eternal, as in there is no going back from it. It is not an everlasting punishing, but a punishment, you see? As far as everlasting fire goes there are three interpretations that I know of: the fire will last for as long as the wicked remain alive, so to them it is everlasting; the fire is everlasting in that it is the fire which renders everlasting punishment (this is my view); the fire will exist forever only to torture the fallen angels, but that interpretation requires belief that angels are immortal.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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For most people the issue isn't just concern for friends. It's what it says about God.
God can punish the wicked any way He pleases, so I'm more concerned about what His word says. I don't believe Conditionalism/Annhilationism because I can't deal with the idea that God has an eternal wrath against the wicked, but because I believe it is what the word of God teaches. The wages of sin is death, not ECT; God is not a liar.
 
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Hieronymus

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God can punish the wicked any way He pleases, so I'm more concerned about what His word says.
I agree, though it does say a lot about God's personality.
I don't believe Conditionalism/Annhilationism because I can't deal with the idea that God has an eternal wrath against the wicked, but because I believe it is what the word of God teaches. The wages of sin is death, not ECT; God is not a liar.
Amen.

(What's ECT? Eternal corporal torture?)
 
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Chootas

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The punishment of the second death is everlasting/eternal, as in there is no going back from it. It is not an everlasting punishing, but a punishment, you see? As far as everlasting fire goes there are three interpretations that I know of: the fire will last for as long as the wicked remain alive, so to them it is everlasting; the fire is everlasting in that it is the fire which renders everlasting punishment (this is my view); the fire will exist forever only to torture the fallen angels, but that interpretation requires belief that angels are immortal.

Interesting point distinguishing between punishing and punishment and that was how I understood the interpretation to exist. My view is that the punishment is everlasting, implying an awareness, and that it is as enduring to the sinner as Eternal Life is to the believer.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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Interesting point distinguishing between punishing and punishment and that was how I understood the interpretation to exist. My view is that the punishment is everlasting, implying an awareness, and that it is as enduring to the sinner as Eternal Life is to the believer.
Yes, and the nature of that punishment is where the debate lies. Is the punishment for sin eternal torture, or death?
 
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Hieronymus

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How would the Annihilists view the passage in Matthew 25 and in particular verse 46 where Jesus himself, speaking to the multitudes says " And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" ?
There's a difference between punishement and punishing.
In Greek the difference is bigger.
Previously in verse 41 Jesus says "Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" , speaking regarding the eventual judgment of all nations.
God is a devouring Fire, isn't He?
So the Fire devours, things you throw in it burn up, are consumed by it.
Just keen to understand some variant interpretations of this scripture.
I posted 2 videos earlier that address most of it.
 
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Cush

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True, but you seemed uneasy with the idea that people you knew and loved would be in the lake of fire. People WILL be sent there, but their suffering will end with their death. Universalism would reject the belief that anyone would die, as Universalism requires universal immortality, as does Traditionalism. Does it comfort you to know that the wicked will be dead and not in ECT?

I think one needs to define eternal life, because only believers are promised eternal life. Eternity in hell, I will contend is quite different than eternal life.

Your last statement, C.I.G. hit home. I believe whether heaven or hell, justice or mercy, wrath or grace, the true saints shall praise Him.

God bless,
William
 
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Hieronymus

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True, but you seemed uneasy with the idea that people you knew and loved would be in the lake of fire.
Yes, i see.
Well, God's Will be done, regardless.
People WILL be sent there, but their suffering will end with their death. Universalism would reject the belief that anyone would die, as Universalism requires universal immortality, as does Traditionalism.
The condition for it would be God's Grace for universalism, as opposed to traditionalism.
Does it comfort you to know that the wicked will be dead and not in ECT?
God is the Judge, not me.
"Comfort" is not the right word though.
But i am an annihilist.
But i'm just not sure when 'the wicked' have the last chance to repent.
Also, i don't think all unbelievers are 'wicked'.
Many people live 'decent lives' but are not Christian.
Unbelief is not an unpardonable sin, there apparently is just one unpardonable sin.
Scripture also mentions that some will be small in God's Kingdom.

I don't know, but i'm not a universalist.
 
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