Annihilationism?

[Soul Searcher]

No. There is a difference between 'reinterpreting the scripture' and keeping it in its proper context. 'All' does mean all of that which is inside a particular frame work. And it is the same with 'every'. And also there is more than one world spoken of in the New Testament. And many times in the NT when the 'world' is spoken of, it means nothing more than the Jewish world.

Who decides what is proper context?
Have you ever heard of rightly dividing the word of truth?

I suppose this is referring to the Jewish world also..

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And this one can not possibly mean that it is Gods will that all people be saved.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And this could not possibly mean both the just and the unjust [e.g. Righteous and unrighteous] will be raised fromt he dead.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

 

[Harlin]

Keeping the letter is not keeping the Law!

Hello,

I understand that, just look at the rich young ruler, he kept the letter, however he was selfish, he didn't love his neighbour, but Jesus kept the letter and yet kept the full law.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Soul Searcher]

Hello,

I understand that, just look at the rich young ruler, he kept the letter, however he was selfish, he didn't love his neighbour, but Jesus kept the letter and yet kept the full law.

God Bless,

Harlin

Jesus kept the law in spirit not in letter. Remember him healing on the sabbath day? The rich man did not keep the law in spirit nor in letter.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hello,

I understand that, just look at the rich young ruler, he kept the letter, however he was selfish, he didn't love his neighbour, but Jesus kept the letter and yet kept the full law.

God Bless,

Harlin

Heres something interesting

Mans attempt to "be ye perfect" by the commandments" seemed to be "expressed" as "ALL these I have KEPT". This was showing not only his attempt but "the desire" to do good in a way that seemed RIGHT (NOT wrong) to "a man".


Im not sure but the rich young ruler seems to be a patern of Paul.


The law, even the commandments made "nothing perfect". The ruler asked, "What GOOD THING must I DO? As Jesus even showed (in relation to the law) said IF you WANT to be PERFECT sell what YOU HAVE (your possessions) and give to the poor THEN follow me.


There is none that "DOETH GOOD" (is said 5 times). Is not the knowledge and power of sin by the law? It appears the rich young ruler as well as Paul were enlightened to "that".


Being rich in their OWN righteousness by the law (outwardly) "blameless" left that which is "lacking" and NOT what is inwardly perfect. Paul said he was "blameless" in regards to the righteousness that is in the law.


The rich young ruler was ASKING what good thing he might do that he might "inherit eternal life" .

The rich young ruler seems reflective of Pauls own struggle

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how TO PERFORM that which IS GOOD I find NOT.

This seems to be "the comandment" that shares a "common ground" with both the rich young ruler and Paul... (sell your possessions)

Romans 7:7 for I had not known lust, except the law had said, thou shalt not covet. (showing the law is SPIRITUAL)

The rich young ruler went away sad (Paul seems to be showing what is hid in the gospel)


Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occassion ((( by the commandment ))) wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For (( without the law )) sin was dead.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, """sold under sin"""

Romans 7:15 For that which ""I do"" I allow not: for what I WOULD, that do I NOT; but what I HATE, that do I.


How can one be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect by the law if this be true?

How could such requirements be met?

Through FAITH (die to the law)


Sell what you have, sounds much like Paul's exclamation,

"NOT having mine OWN righteousness" (riches) which come by the law. But the "true riches" which are by "the Faith" of Christ.


Heb 7:19 For the law made NOTHING PERFECT, but """the bringing in of a better hope DID; """" by the which""" we draw nigh unto God.

What is IMPOSSIBLE with MEN """ IS POSSIBLE """ WITH GOD, (So, the better hope DID)


WITHOUT """FAITH""" its IMPOSSIBLE To PLEASE HIM


Gal 3:12 ..THE LAW IS NOT OF FATH: Faith worketh By LOVE, we are being made perfect IN LOVE (by Faith) NOT the law (which made nothing perfect)


It is "the blessing of the LORD that maketh rich"... That would be "Christ in us"...

To whom though he was RICH Christ saith...

YE KNOW NOT that YE ~ARE~ POOR. Giving away our possessions (those things Paul said was gain "to him"). Knowing our poverty (being poor) "from here" makes it possible to make many rich (having HIM as our possession).


Here we would having nothing (knowing we are nothing) but we would also be """possessing all things""". Its Him lifteth the beggar from the dunghill. Its Him who hath made us to sit in heavenly places . Having "this treasure" in "earthen vessels"


Someone once had said... "Paul stipulated that for Christians to give up their possessions was the act of love and faith that was necessary to receive eternal life."


Mark 4:12 hearing they may hear, and not understand?


Go sell what you have (being rich in this worlds goods) dont seem to work (though its not exclusive of love) its also not the point either (as Paul shows it)

1Cr 13:3 And though I bestow ALL my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it it profitteth me nothing.


Some making a big "taddo" over a waste showing the alabaster of perfume used for the Lords burial had no better intentions, via Judas. The one who had "the bag". So one can hear GUILT trips often from others holding "that bag" having in them indignant expressions such as "Why such a waste, this could be SOLD and the money given to THE POOR"... Sounds good though, dont it?
But inwardly Judas "cared nothing" for the poor. It was a "show of words" which betrayed his true intent. So not everything is "as it appears"

What THINGS then?? ALL things.

Phil 3:7 But what things were GAIN to ME, THOSE I counted LOSS for Christ.

Phil 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Phil 3:4 Though I might also have """confidence in the flesh """ If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof""" he might trust in the flesh, I more

Phl 3:5-6 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching righteousness which is in the law, BLAMELESS.

Thou SAYEST thou art RICH (all these I have KEPT from my youth up?) but thou are WRETCHED?

Paul himself borrows that "very word" to himself. "Wretched man that I AM".

Thou art POOR, miserable BLIND and naked.

The scales that fell off his eyes were the SCALES of "pride". Pride "boasteth", it SAYETH I am rich. Job says, "If I SAY I am PERFECT it will ~PROVE ME~ PERVERSE". A crooked and perverse generation which sees itself pure in its own eyes but not cleansed of its filth? Our righteousness as filthy rags before Him.

Phil 3:7-8 But what things were gain me, THOSE I """counted loss"" for Christ.Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of """Christ Jesus my Lord""" for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dumg, that I may win Christ,

Phil 3:9 And be found in Him, """ NOT having mine OWN righteousness, which is of the Law, """but that which is through""" the faith of Christ, """"the righteousness which is of God , by faith


It is by faith we hope, and by faith we draw near, the better hope which DOES make perfect. Faith worketh by love and we are perfected in love. Without love doing anything it proffiteth us nothing.

On one hand, you can give all your possessions to the poor and body to the fire. This being done in some kind of "good works" which would boast..."Hey, look at me and my grand sacrifice". But we can still have not love doing this very thing and be nothing. Its not even an evidence in that regard in having anything of love even if you do it.


BUT, "on the otherhand" as John shows...

1John 3:17 But whoso hath """"this world's good """ and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion """from him """, HOW """"dwelleth the love of God in him?

1John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (deed and IN Truth )

To which one cannot say.. "YE have FAITH but ((( I ))) have DEEDS. Faith worketh BY Love. It bindeth the two together "out of which" His works.

We are "created in Christ" ~unto~ good works. If there first be a "willing mind" its acceptable being made perfect through the doing OF them but "out of" what one HATH, NOT "out of" what one hath NOT.


Just as John shows, if you have TWO TUNICS share with him that hath NONE. Not if you have two give "both" away which seems to be Pauls point.


Luke 21:1 he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

That which looks like so very little, yet look here this shows to contradict such a point because it is showing something inward. It does not contradict what Paul shows "following" because its a "picture".

Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast more then they all

Luke 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her punery hath cast in all the living that she had.

This is where this comes in keeping in MIND " their joy " in 2Cr 8:2 and compare to Prov 10:32) Below it..

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)

2Cr 8:2 How that in a great trial of afliction the """abundance of THEIR JOY "" and their DEEP POVERTY """abounded unto the riches of their librality.

Prov 10:32 The blessing of The LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth NO SORROW with it

The poor cast in more then the rich

Prov 13:7 There is that""" maketh himself """ rich, yet have nothing: there is that """maketh himself POOR "", yet hath great riches.


2Cr 8:3 For to their power, I bear record, YEA, and BEYOND THEIR POWER THEY were WILLING "of themselves";


2Cr 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it ;that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance ""also""" OUT OF THAT which YE HAVE. (NOT out of what ye have not)

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)

Paradoxically how can poor people make others rich? They cant "in the natural" if you count riches in this worlds goods. But if your counting HIM ("The blessing" OF the Lord ) as having HIM as a our true treasure in our earthly vessel we might NOT have ANYTHING but posesssing HIM IS possesing "ALL THINGS".

The blessing of HIM (who is our joy ) maketh rich (true riches). Its through HIM "others are made rich" in and through HIM which comes "the abundance of grace" that overflows "others-ward". That which comes from Him in us and "others- ward". It is no contradiction to the fact that God hath chosen the "poor of this world" to be rich in "the faith". That is the true riches.


The law making nothing perfect, we fall "short" of the glory of God (ruler went away). What is impossible with MEN is possible with God, without FAITH its IMPOSSIBLE to please Him, the law is NOT of faith.

Christ IS ~The End~ of the Law (which is good, though impossible for men) for it made "nothing perfect". But Faith is the BETTER HOPE which DID. Christ IS~ THE WAY~ we are "perfected" in LOVE.

Sorry... Im very wordy I just saw your post and I wanted to post this, not certain but Im looking at these things very similiarly right now.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Harlin]

Jesus kept the law in spirit not in letter. Remember him healing on the sabbath day? The rich man did not keep the law in spirit nor in letter.

No, Jesus kept them both. The Pharisee's and Scribes had made God's law a burden, especially the observance of the Sabbath. They had added many other regulations that made it virtually impossible to be kept according to their standards. Christ came to show how God's law, including the Sabbath was to be kept, but according to them (the Jewish religious leaders), He was a law breaker.

Who do you think was right, the Jews or Jesus?

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Soul Searcher]

No, Jesus kept them both. The Pharisee's and Scribes had made God's law a burden, especially the observance of the Sabbath. They had added many other regulations that made it virtually impossible to be kept according to their standards. Christ came to show how God's law, including the Sabbath was to be kept, but according to them (the Jewish religious leaders), He was a law breaker.

Who do you think was right, the Jews or Jesus?

God Bless,

Harlin

Jesus of course, he did and explained the spirit of the law, but when you view the law by the letter of the law it is error.

What must be understood is that it is impossible to keep the letter of the law as there will be times when in letter two commandments work against each other. The sabbath day is a good example. By the letter people were to do no work on the sabbath, yet some things must be done in order to keep the other laws the most important of which and the foundation of all the others being to love your fellow man. Jesus did work in that he healed the man which by the letter broke the law yet in doing so he kept the law to love his fellow man. In spirit he kept the whole law, what better way to keep the sabbath holy than to love your fellow man as God commanded.

 

[martymonster]

The Law of the spirit is nothing to do with the Letter of the Law, they are completey different!

The Law of the spirit says that anything that happens in your heart is what makes you guilty of sin, the letter of the law is only for the disobedient and rebelious.

If We are to keep the Letter of the Law, then we are obligated to keep the whole law.

Rom 2:23 You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law do you dishonor God?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[2cents]

It has about as much to do with the topic as any other quote from your Essene gospel.

If this so called 'gospel' is wrong about such a integral and core precept of the Christian doctrine as it is recorded in what we call the New Testament, as the miracle of Christ's being born of a woman who conceived, not by the seed of man but of the holy Spirit, then surely I couldn't trust any other part of it either. And yes, IMO the whole thing should be discarded.

If the virgin birth is a "core precept of the Christian doctrine as it is recorded in what we call the New Testament" How come there is so little mention of it?
Mark didn't seem to think it worth mentioning, or John, or Peter or Paul, or James or Jude or the writer of Hebrews or Revelation, does that sound like a "core precept"? Remove a chapter out of Matthew and Luke and it would not affect the Gospel one iota, thats not just my opinion it's the opinion of Mark and John and Peter and Paul and James etc. Makes me suspect somethings amiss with this "core doctrine".

 

[2cents]

How do you know God is loving but by the revelation of Scripture?

I do it by the revelation of His Son to me and in me, yes I use scripture, but words without the revelation of the Spirit are useless.

I have a question, how do you trust the revelation of scriptures such as this:

8 O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one,
How blessed will be the one who repays you
With the recompense with which you have repaid us.
9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones
Against the rock.

You realize of course the writer here is blessing someone for seizing and smashing babies on rocks. Thats about as bloodthirsty as it gets, just because it is in the Bible does not mean that God inspired it, IMO. Although it looks as if I'm picking and choosing according to my tastes, the fact is everyone does it, if they didn't, we wouldn't be on this forum right now.

Paul gives us several prayers in the book of Ephesians:

16 do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers;

17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.
18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might

and also


14For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,
16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
20 Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, 21to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

I mention these because I have incorporated them into my prayers and thought life, and since then have had to let go of a lot of presuppositions and outright delusional thinking regarding Scriptures and their interpretations. God bless you in your quest.

 

[Fireinfolding]

If the virgin birth is a "core precept of the Christian doctrine as it is recorded in what we call the New Testament" How come there is so little mention of it?
Mark didn't seem to think it worth mentioning, or John, or Peter or Paul, or James or Jude or the writer of Hebrews or Revelation, does that sound like a "core precept"? Remove a chapter out of Matthew and Luke and it would not affect the Gospel one iota, thats not just my opinion it's the opinion of Mark and John and Peter and Paul and James etc. Makes me suspect somethings amiss with this "core doctrine".

I agree with this, Paul does not mention the "virgin birth" instead uses Mary (One) as a "similitude" to "the many" speaking on this wise...

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were *children* were in bondage under the elements of the world:But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of A WOMAN, made under the law, to redeem THEM under the law, that we might receive the adoption of *sons*

He uses her "singularly" to express something that is "signified" as it pertains to "the many"

Scripture shows the very same in accordance with that which is shown of her here...

Luke 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thine OWN SOUL also,) THAT the thoughts of MANY HEARTS may be revealed.

This goes deeper and is rooted in "unto us a *CHILD* is born, unto us a *SON* is given". Paul shows this very thing in regards to "children in bondage" as it relates to the law and "the adoption of sons" by Jesus Christ. Its being "delivered of the child". On the Cross is where he said to Mary, "Behold thy Son". I see it as comparing "spiritual with spiritual" (not knowing Christ after the flesh no more). His words are SPIRIT. The saying "no more children, but sons" is also in accordance with this same truth.

Paul never spoke it the same as those do today. Jesus spoke in parables but to those who became stewards it was given them to know the mysteries. Paul himself said he was a "steward" of "the mysteries of God". He most certainly never spoke them after the wisdom of men (concerning carnal truths as most do today) but spiritual truths.


That which Paul preached that we are to keep in rememberance (lest we have believed in vain) is expressed briefly in 1Cr 15:1-8 the virgin birth is not mentioned by him. He did however desire to present THEM as a virgin to Christ, it was Christ in them that was the utmost importance to him.

There are many elaborate teachings taught today of which the apostles never speak on (as I see it anyway).

I agree with your observation.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Harlin]

Jesus of course, he did and explained the spirit of the law, but when you view the law by the letter of the law it is error.

What must be understood is that it is impossible to keep the letter of the law as there will be times when in letter two commandments work against each other. The sabbath day is a good example. By the letter people were to do no work on the sabbath, yet some things must be done in order to keep the other laws the most important of which and the foundation of all the others being to love your fellow man. Jesus did work in that he healed the man which by the letter broke the law yet in doing so he kept the law to love his fellow man. In spirit he kept the whole law, what better way to keep the sabbath holy than to love your fellow man as God commanded.

hello,

I don't agree with two commandments contradicting each other when you are trying to keep both. The commandment about the Sabbath is very clear on what kind of work was forbade,

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work....."Exo 20:8-11

It is the labourous work, the trade, occupation of a person, not God's work of helping the sick, and loving thy neighbour. Anything that can be done before the Sabbath, need not be done on the Sabbath, because it is a Day of rest, not just from work, but rest in the Lord. What better way to keep the Sabbath than to abstain from all self beneficial labour and work for the needy. The Jews completely lost sight of this, that is why they accused Jesus of breaking the law when He was helping people, or in another case, feeding Himself and His disciples.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Soul Searcher]

hello,

I don't agree with two commandments contradicting each other when you are trying to keep both. The commandment about the Sabbath is very clear on what kind of work was forbade,

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work....."Exo 20:8-11

It is the labourous work, the trade, occupation of a person, not God's work of helping the sick, and loving thy neighbour. Anything that can be done before the Sabbath, need not be done on the Sabbath, because it is a Day of rest, not just from work, but rest in the Lord. What better way to keep the Sabbath than to abstain from all self beneficial labour and work for the needy. The Jews completely lost sight of this, that is why they accused Jesus of breaking the law when He was helping people, or in another case, feeding Himself and His disciples.

God Bless,

Harlin

But you see what you are doing is interpreting the law, trying to assertain the spirit of the law. When we look at the letter of the law it says all work so in letter any work would be a violation. What if it is the morning of the sabbath and the roof colasped on a house and there are people inside who will die if not rescued within hours. This will be very hard labourous work to be sure but lives can be saved it action is taken. The commandment tells us to do unto others as we would have done unto us. I would want to be rescued so I must rescue them or at least do by best, but it is the sabbath and it is work. By the letter no matter what action I take I break one of the commandments, but in spirit if I take action and try to save them I am keeping all the commandments.

See my point? There are thousands of such examples.

btw thy is added by the translator.

 

[martymonster]

hello,

I don't agree with two commandments contradicting each other when you are trying to keep both. The commandment about the Sabbath is very clear on what kind of work was forbade,

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work....."Exo 20:8-11

It is the labourous work, the trade, occupation of a person, not God's work of helping the sick, and loving thy neighbour. Anything that can be done before the Sabbath, need not be done on the Sabbath, because it is a Day of rest, not just from work, but rest in the Lord. What better way to keep the Sabbath than to abstain from all self beneficial labour and work for the needy. The Jews completely lost sight of this, that is why they accused Jesus of breaking the law when He was helping people, or in another case, feeding Himself and His disciples.

God Bless,

Harlin

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace.

Doesn't sound like anyone is justified by the Law to me!

BTW, keeping the whole Law (letter) means all 613 ordnances!

How about an eye for an eye, do you think that goes against turning the other cheek?

The Law of the spirit is much higher than the letter.
for example instead resting from the work of hands on the sabbath we are to rest from the our work 24/7/365, it is Christs works in us that are the only thing that matters, therefore resting on the sabbath one day a week is sin, we must rest all week every week!

 

[Harlin]

But you see what you are doing is interpreting the law, trying to assertain the spirit of the law. When we look at the letter of the law it says all work so in letter any work would be a violation. What if it is the morning of the sabbath and the roof colasped on a house and there are people inside who will die if not rescued within hours. This will be very hard labourous work to be sure but lives can be saved it action is taken. The commandment tells us to do unto others as we would have done unto us. I would want to be rescued so I must rescue them or at least do by best, but it is the sabbath and it is work. By the letter no matter what action I take I break one of the commandments, but in spirit if I take action and try to save them I am keeping all the commandments.

See my point? There are thousands of such examples.

btw thy is added by the translator.

Hello,

You seem to be missing the point. Jesus sorted out the misunderstanding of what constitutes "labour" or "work" as opposed to "doing good".

Labourously rescueing someone is not considered "work" on the Sabbath, it is considered doing good. To not rescue them would be in direct opposition to the laws of God.

Just look at the OT when the manna fell, it only fell on six days a week and kept an extra day, this was so the Israelites didn't have to "work" on the Sabbath.

God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Harlin]

Edit

 

[Harlin]

Edit

 

[Harlin]

Hello,

Doesn't sound like anyone is justified by the Law to me!

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid" Rom 6:15

How does one even know what sin is unless there is a law?

I never said we were justified by keeping the law, I said that the law is what shows us what sin is (Rom 3:20), without it there can be no knowledge of sin. When a Christian is born again, they receive God's law written on their hearts, it is still the same unchanging law, the same Spirit convicts us of our sins because the law is in our hearts. If we are walking according to the Spirit, not the flesh, then we would automatically be keeping God's law. NOT justified by it, but a natural response to the leading of God's Spirit.

BTW, keeping the whole Law (letter) means all 613 ordnances!

If you study Deuteronomy 31, you will see that there are two handwritten laws, one was by God, which went into the Ark, and the other was by Moses which went into the side of the Ark,(deut 31:26), the one that went into the side of the Ark was put there as "a witness against thee", and it was the law that was "against us that was nailed to the cross "Colo 2:14", not God's handwritten immutable law which shows us our sins.

The Mosaic law and all it's ordinances were nailed to the cross, they all pointed to Christ the great sacrifice, and were therefore no longer needed after His death. God's law however, still stands according to Jesus, for He even quoted several of them on different occasions.

How about an eye for an eye, do you think that goes against turning the other cheek?

Yes, I do, I don't believe that "eye for an eye" was ever a God given concept, God says Himself, "vengence is mine, I will repay", God is unchanging, so which is it? I believe Jesus revealed the truth about the Father's character and laws.

The Law of the spirit is much higher than the letter.
for example instead resting from the work of hands on the sabbath we are to rest from the our work 24/7/365, it is Christs works in us that are the only thing that matters, therefore resting on the sabbath one day a week is sin, we must rest all week every week!

Again, look at the "Manna" example of Sabbath keeping in the OT, if God didn't send Manna to be collected on Sabbath back then, why would His requirements be any different now. God never changes.

There are two rests, one from work on the Sabbath, and a continual rest in Christ. The Spiritual law goes deeper than just the letter yes, it focuses on the mind and heart, one can keep the law outwardly, as the young ruler did, yet disobey it inwardly. Having the Spirit convict us of our sin shows us our inward transgression of God's law. Even hating your brother is considered on the same level as murdering him.


God Bless,

Harlin

 

[Fireinfolding]

Concerning the Seventh day (the Sabbath made for man) not man for the Sabbath right?

Heb 4:2-3 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. We which do believe do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the Seventh day (( on this wise ))) And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore (((it remaineth))) that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in ((because of unbelief))

Heb 4:7-8 Again, he limiteth a cetain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Heb 4:9 There ((( remaineth therefore ))) a rest ((to)) the people of God.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

In regarding Sabbath days by which men might judge another we should not.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect to any holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Roms 14:15-16 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth everyday alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. ((He that regardeth the day)) regardeth it unto the Lord; and ((he that regardeth not the day)) to the Lord he doth not regard it

How would these come into play regarding the conversation of Sabbaths either way? Curious, I am following this conversation aright?

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Soul Searcher]

Hello,

You seem to be missing the point. Jesus sorted out the misunderstanding of what constitutes "labour" or "work" as opposed to "doing good".

Labourously rescueing someone is not considered "work" on the Sabbath, it is considered doing good. To not rescue them would be in direct opposition to the laws of God.

Just look at the OT when the manna fell, it only fell on six days a week and kept an extra day, this was so the Israelites didn't have to "work" on the Sabbath.

God Bless,

Harlin

Redefining the word work does not do much for your case here. I think perhaps you do not understand what is meant by "the letter of the law" letter of the law is a very strict literal interpretation. All labor is literally work who benifits is beside the point entirely.

 

[martymonster]

It is fairly easy to understand that the 10 commandments were just a shadow of the true law if you bear in mind this spiritual principal as put forth by Paul when talked about the resurrection.first the physical the the spiritual!Why would anyone in their right mind try to keep the letter?The letter is just the knowledge of good and evil, and that doesn't get you anywhere but dead!I could post all sorts of scriptures here, but I really can't be bothered right now, someone?