Annihilation in Matthew 10:28

Timothew · Aug 17, 2011

I still do not see why burning people in a fire to consume or destroy them is better than Eternal Torment. It sounds just as cruel and unforgiving as Eternal Torment.

I wasn't saying anything about which is better, death or torment. I was just relating which is biblical. What does the bible have to say about it?

One time there was a dog that had been hit by a car. All of his legs were broken and he was really messed up. He was in extreme torment and he was not going to survive. The only thing my father could do for the dog was to end his suffering by ending his life.

msmorality · Aug 17, 2011

Timothew said:
I wasn't saying anything about which is better, death or torment. I was just relating which is biblical. What does the bible have to say about it?

One time there was a dog that had been hit by a car. All of his legs were broken and he was really messed up. He was in extreme torment and he was not going to survive. The only thing my father could do for the dog was to end his suffering by ending his life.

Either way you slice it, Eternal Torment and Eternal Death are two sides of the same coin. Sin wins, wickedness is more powerful than God.

What is biblical is God has victory over death and sin. Christ won victory for all.

1 Cor 15vs25
"For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

vs 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death."

vs 28"When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

Does God destroy and bring destruction Yes. Sodom , and Sodom is to be restored. (Eze 16:53). Restored to former wickedness ? No, restored to ' fortunes ' .

God intention, from the begging of the fall is to restore and transform.

Transform every creature : you , me, people we know,we are all created in the perfect image of God. All people are sinners' . And as sinners we are all covered under the covenant of Grace. Each judged by the measure of light given to them, to much is given much is expect. And to those who didn't know are judged lightly. ( Luke 12:47-48).

In order to cure and remove wickedness. He removes the ' dross ' . While Discipline can be painful, it is always for the purpose to make whole, heal and transform to righteousness. ( Is 1:25 )

He will not stop until ALL Creation is restored to its former beauty.

My Biblical Model does not allow for death , sin or rebellion to have victory.

Only Christ has won Victory for every created creature. ( Col 2:15 ) The last and the first. ( Matt 20:16 )
ALL will know Him , ( Heb 8:11 ) and ALL will bow in submission willingly .
( Ph 2:10 )

he-man · Aug 17, 2011

msmorality said:
IF this is Biblical, by this logic all people should be destroyed here and now. To end all suffering.

What is biblical is God has victory over death and sin. Christ won victory for all.

1 Cor 15vs25
"For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Who were and are his enemies?

msmorality said:
vs 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death."

vs 28"When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

Right the last enemy is sin, the cause of death. James 1:14

msmorality said:
Does God destroy and bring destruction Yes. Sodom , and Sodom is to be restored. (Eze 16:53). Restored to former wickedness ? No, restored to ' fortunes ' .

God intention, from the begging of the fall is to restore and transform.

Transform every creature : you , me, people we know,

ALL who Believe in Christ!

msmorality said:
In order to cure and remove wickedness. He removes the ' dross ' . While Discipline can be painful, it is always for the purpose to make whole, heal and transform to righteousness. ( Is 1:25 )

No, he removes the LEES so be careful if you say He will not do evil: Are you a fisher or a HUNTER?

Zep 1:12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil

Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Amo 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

3 And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:

4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.

Ed Bana · Aug 17, 2011

You sure do dwell in the negative realm. The way you spin it God is a monster and He knows no good. Is this all you see in the Bible?

Your God sure is not Jesus the lamb of God.

How can people believe until they are called?

he-man said:
Who were and are his enemies?

Right the last enemy is sin, the cause of death. James 1:14

ALL who Believe in Christ!
No, he removes the LEES so be careful if you say He will not do evil: Are you a fisher or a HUNTER?

Zep 1:12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil

Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Amo 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

3 And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:

4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.

he-man · Aug 18, 2011

Ed Bana said:
You sure do dwell in the negative realm. The way you spin it God is a monster and He knows no good. Is this all you see in the Bible?Your God sure is not Jesus the lamb of God.How can people believe until they are called?

Correct, My GOD is certainly NOT JESUS, there is only One God and His Son JESUS and Now is the time for people tp wake up to the FACTS:

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

For the great day of his wrath is come and the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

This shall be the portion of their cup the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Psa 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Ed Bana · Aug 18, 2011

If your God is not Jesus then who is he Allah?

God is one not three persons.

The wrath in the NT is the wrath of the Lamb. Your God is soooo angry.

He casued the fall.

he-man said:
Correct, My GOD is certainly NOT JESUS, there is only One God and His Son JESUS and Now is the time for people tp wake up to the FACTS:

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

For the great day of his wrath is come and the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

This shall be the portion of their cup the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Psa 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

msmorality · Aug 18, 2011

he-man said:
Who were and are his enemies?

Right the last enemy is sin, the cause of death. James 1:14

ALL who Believe in Christ!
No, he removes the LEES so be careful if you say He will not do evil: Are you a fisher or a HUNTER?

Zep 1:12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil

Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Amo 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

3 And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:

4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.

I bring good news :

All people will come to ' believe' and all people will be rescued from death. Death has no victory.

And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. Heb 8:11

The Lord does not falsify His Promises, nor does He lack the wisdom to accomplish His WILL....

"By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." Isa 45:23

"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 1Cor 15:55

vs 57 "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

he-man · Aug 18, 2011

msmorality said:
I bring good news :All people will come to ' believe' and all people will be rescued from death. Death has no victory.
And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. Heb 8:11

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;

msmorality said:
The Lord does not falsify His Promises, nor does He lack the wisdom to accomplish His WILL....
"By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." Isa 45:23

Every knee that will accept Christ as Ruler! But some will not!

Zec 9:15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

Mic 4:11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.

12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for He shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Psa 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

Ed Bana · Aug 18, 2011

　
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouths)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
　
Luke 3: 6 (Amp)
And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand
and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God
(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).
1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

he-man said:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
Every knee that will accept Christ as Ruler! But some will not!

Zec 9:15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

Mic 4:11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.

12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for He shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Psa 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

Click to expand...

he-man · Aug 19, 2011

Ed Bana said:
　Luke 3: 6 (Amp)
And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God (the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).
1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

And all mankind in Christ shall all be made alive.
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Psa 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

Psa 52:5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah.

7 Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.

Ed Bana · Aug 19, 2011

he-man said:
And all mankind in Christ shall all be made alive.
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Psa 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

Psa 52:5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah.

7 Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.

You refuse to address the conteXt of the verse. All in Adam died. All in Christ will be made alive. Now thats conteXt.

he-man · Aug 19, 2011

Ed Bana said:
You refuse to address the conteXt of the verse. All in Adam died. All in Christ will be made alive. Now thats conteXt.

Where are your manners?

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ed Bana · Aug 19, 2011

he-man said:
Where are your manners?

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Same place yours have always been.

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

he-man · Aug 19, 2011

Ed Bana said:
Same place yours have always been.

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

to all people,certainly of those that believe.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, certainly of those that believe.

G3122 μαλιστα certainly

Ed Bana · Aug 19, 2011

he-man said:
to all people,certainly of those that believe.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, certainly of those that believe.

G3122 μαλιστα certainly

And your point? How can someone believe until He is called? Billions of God's people have never been called? What about those billions who neve rhad a chance to believe????

Besides Luke 2:10 never mention anything about believing???

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

he-man · Aug 19, 2011

Ed Bana said:
And your point? How can someone believe until He is called? Billions of God's people have never been called? What about those billions who neve rhad a chance to believe????

Besides Luke 2:10 never mention anything about believing???

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Please then explain
Mat 10:22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mat 24:9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

Joh 7:7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Joh 15:19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Ed Bana · Aug 19, 2011

he-man said:
Please then explain
Mat 10:22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mat 24:9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

Joh 7:7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Joh 15:19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Heman Your verses are not saying what yo want them to say?

What is your point?

msmorality · Aug 22, 2011

he-man said:
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
Every knee that will accept Christ as Ruler! But some will not!

Zec 9:15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

Mic 4:11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.

12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for He shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Psa 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

Have Faith, do not doubt in the majestic power of God . His wisdom accomplishes everything by His unfailing Love, Mercy and Grace. He can not cease being long suffering, patient , kind and compassionate. He can not deny His Faithfulness..

If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. 2Tim 2:13

" So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." Is 55:11

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? " Num 23:19

All the earth shall worship you, and shall sing to you; they shall sing to your name. Selah. " Ps 66:4

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him. Ps 22:27

he-man · Aug 22, 2011

msmorality said:
Have Faith, do not doubt in the majestic power of God . His wisdom accomplishes everything by His unfailing Love, Mercy and Grace. He can not cease being long suffering, patient , kind and compassionate. He can not deny His Faithfulness..
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. 2Tim 2:13
" So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." Is 55:11

Who even thinks he has...Perceive then how you hear:

Lu 8:12 And those by the way are those that hear whether comes the slanderer and takes away the word from their heart that not to believe to put their trust in.

13 But those upon the rock, those when they hear, with joy accept the word of God, those not having had a root, they for a time believe, and in the time of enticement, give up1.
1* Greek αφιστανται αφιεστα give up

4 And those which heard and are fallen into the prickle, walk, and are suffocated from taking care of the wealthiness and pleasures of life, and are not effectual1.
1* Greek τελεσφορουσιν τελεσφόρος effectual

18 Perceive then how you hear; for each who has, to him shall be given; and each who has not, even that thinks1 to have, shall be taken from him.
1* Greek δοκεω think, appear to be

CHRISTINESHIRES · Aug 22, 2011

Hey there, Just thought I would say that I agree with the interpretation given in Matthew 10:28. How is it that the verse in Thessalonians is looked at ? 2thess 1:9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,YLT

2Thess 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;KJV

When God carries out His justice and Judgement it would seem to me that once He carries it out its finished. For the KJV to say everlasting destruction seems to imply that something will be destroyed forever.

Annihilation in Matthew 10:28

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