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Annihilation in Matthew 10:28

he-man

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In my study of the usage if the Greek word "Apollumi" in the New testament, In the KJV the word is translated:
25 times as "Destroy" or "Destroyed"
33 times as "Perish","Perished", or "Perishing"
27 times as Lose, Loses, or Lost.
1 time as "Marred"
1 time as "Die"
This topic is Annhiliation and means complete destruction. It is only used in
1Co 5:5

1Th 5:3
1Ti 6:9
2Th 1:9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

G[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]3639 ολεθρον destruction, ruin, desolation, annihilation[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif](earlier (ME) as devastation):[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]from L. devastat-, devastare, from de- 'thoroughly' + vastare 'lay waste'. ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).; ME: from OFr. destruire, based on L. destruct-, destruere, from de- (expressing reversal) + struere 'build' © Oxford University Press[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]
 
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Mikecpking

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Romans 6:23

New International Version (NIV)

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.
Footnotes:
  1. Romans 6:23 Or through
Is 'death' eternal life in hell? I don't think so.
 
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he-man

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Romans 6:23

New International Version (NIV)

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.

Footnotes:
  1. Romans 6:23 Or through
Is 'death' eternal life in hell? I don't think so.
No, it is ολεθρον annihilation, cessation of life; everlasting destruction
 
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Timothew

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Mods, please move this thread to the Unorthodox Theology forum, where it belongs....
Why don't you want to discuss it? Perhaps you have the key argument that none of us have heard before. Then we can drop our "unorthodox" view, and we all can be one big happy family. (while everyone else burns in hell, apparently)
.
 
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Why don't you want to discuss it? Perhaps you have the key argument that none of us have heard before. Then we can drop our "unorthodox" view, and we all can be one big happy family. (while everyone else burns in hell, apparently)

Typical Calvinist. If its not taught by a Reformed/Puritan divine or confirmed in a creed, it's automatically heresy.
He could of tried refuting me but instead cried for the kindergarten teacher to rescue him from somebody stealing his jam-sandwich of "Orthodox theology" his mommy made for him. I do my own research. He probably has a library of other people's opinions he feeds off of.
 
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Timothew

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Typical Calvinist. If its not taught by a Reformed/Puritan divine or confirmed in a creed, it's automatically heresy.
He could of tried refuting me but instead cried for the kindergarten teacher to rescue him from somebody stealing his jam-sandwich of "Orthodox theology" his mommy made for him. I do my own research. He probably has a library of other people's opinions he feeds off of.

He cried for the kindergarten teacher to rescue him :thumbsup:

If the facts were on their side, the eternal tormentalist would love to debate. Since they have nothing substantial on their side, they shout us down and run to the moderators. It proves that eternal torment is false.

Unfortunately, since it is now is UT and people don't come down here, nobody sees the truth. And the mods excuse that annihilationism is against the Nicene Creed isn't even true. The Nicene creed doesn't say anything about eternal torment.
 
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msmorality

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For those of you that believe in the endless eternal conscious torment of Hell for the unsaved, what is your rebuttal to Matthew 10:28 ?

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


A hyperbolic statement. The message in this verse is on par with ' if your hand causes you to sin , cut it off.

The statement refers to the destruction of allowing your life to be driven in a state of sin, without turning from it, to turn from sin is to bring life and healing. Both in body, mind and soul.

"May the God of peace himself make you holy in every way. And may your whole being-spirit, soul, and body-remain blameless when our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, appears." - 1 Thess 5:23
 
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Timothew

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A hyperbolic statement. The message in this verse is on par with ' if your hand causes you to sin , cut it off.

The statement refers to the destruction of allowing your life to be driven in a state of sin, without turning from it, to turn from sin is to bring life and healing. Both in body, mind and soul.

"May the God of peace himself make you holy in every way. And may your whole being-spirit, soul, and body-remain blameless when our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, appears." - 1 Thess 5:23

Well if there is a soul that can't be destroyed (as the eternal tormentalism crowd supposes), Jesus' statement would be kind of an empty threat, not a hyperbolic statement.

Fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell, why would I if He can't?

But if He can and He will, then there is something to fear, destruction.
 
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Timothew

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Why don't you want to discuss it? Perhaps you have the key argument that none of us have heard before. Then we can drop our "unorthodox" view, and we all can be one big happy family. (while everyone else burns in hell, apparently)
.
I guess he doesn't want to defend the biblically indefensible view of eternal torment in hell. I wouldn't either.
 
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msmorality

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Well if there is a soul that can't be destroyed (as the eternal tormentalism crowd supposes), Jesus' statement would be kind of an empty threat, not a hyperbolic statement.

Fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell, why would I if He can't?

But if He can and He will, then there is something to fear, destruction.

Destruction and destroy rebellion Yes.

It is evident that Christ used hyperbolic statement's on several occasions.


Such as, Cut off your limbs if they cause you to sin.

OR Hate your Mother and Father.

We need to take note , otherwise taking such language literally can cause someone to go inflict harm to themselves and others.

As far as destroy the body or soul, Yes God can do anything, but that doesn't mean He will. The warning here is to turn from rebellion, sin, otherwise you will be judged and will receive divine discipline. It is much wiser to turn from sin now. I believe this is the point Christ is making.:idea:

"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Heb 3:15
 
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Timothew

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Destruction and destroy rebellion Yes.

It is evident that Christ used hyperbolic statement's on several occasions.


Such as, Cut off your limbs if they cause you to sin.

OR Hate your Mother and Father.

We need to take note , otherwise taking such language literally can cause someone to go inflict harm to themselves and others.

As far as destroy the body or soul, Yes God can do anything, but that doesn't mean He will. The warning here is to turn from rebellion, sin, otherwise you will be judged and will receive divine discipline. It is much wiser to turn from sin now. I believe this is the point Christ is making.:idea:

"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Heb 3:15

I agree that Christ used hyperbolic statements on several occasions. However, in several other places in the end result of not turning to Him is also said to be destruction.
 
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he-man

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I agree that Christ used hyperbolic statements on several occasions. However, in several other places in the end result of not turning to Him is also said to be destruction.
You bet! For instance:

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Gen 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Very Literal:
Deu 25:12
Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

1Ki 9:7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:


 
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msmorality

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I agree that Christ used hyperbolic statements on several occasions. However, in several other places in the end result of not turning to Him is also said to be destruction.

Could you share the verse you believe is used to give you that impression. And explain how can you be sure that it is the actual created person that is to be destroyed and not the ' wickedness' .

Have you considered that it may be possible for God to salvage His creation by His great love and wisdom, rather than just give up and destroy completely ? :)
 
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msmorality

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You bet! For instance:

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Gen 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Very Literal:
Deu 25:12
Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

1Ki 9:7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:



The only thing that this really proves is the greedy-stingy nature of human beings. Anyone, can find multiple verses to support their view. Be it Eternal Torment or Eternal Death. Both have that in common, they seem to take delight that these people will not receive Grace or Mercy for their ignorance and foolishness.

The Prodigal is a good example of the ' greedy - stingy side ' .Most likely people fall into the same mindset as the stingy brother, who isn't too happy that the ' wicked ' brother is welcomed home when he comes around.

And it was Christ who very purpose is to ' save ' the unrighteous. SO, I wouldn't be too quick to count anyone out.

"On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17
 
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Timothew

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Could you share the verse you believe is used to give you that impression. And explain how can you be sure that it is the actual created person that is to be destroyed and not the ' wickedness' .

Have you considered that it may be possible for God to salvage His creation by His great love and wisdom, rather than just give up and destroy completely ? :)
It is throughout the bible. In Genesis, God said if you eat that it's going to kill you (or something like that). In Ezekiel, The one who sins will die.
Isaiah 66:16 says "For the LORD will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the LORD will be many."

I've posted my reasons from the NT on CF before:
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

This says destruction, not eternal torment.

Matthew 10:28​
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Body and Soul will be destroyed in hell. Not burned alive forever in hell.

Matthew 13:30​
First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,
The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down. The tares are gone after they burned. The meaning is the same as in the last 2 verses, that the wicked will be destroyed. As Jesus says in verse 40,​
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Just as the tares are destroyed by burning, the wicked people will be destroyed by burning, at the end of the age.

Luke 13:3​
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.
What apoleisthe does not mean is "will be tortured alive forever."

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Matthew 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured).
and it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).

John 3:16​
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So either a person receives eternal life, or they perish. They die. They are not burned alive forever, they just perish.


John 8:21​
Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
Jesus said they would die in their sin, not be burned alive forever.

Romans 6:23​
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17​
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8​
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.

The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9​
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:26-27,​
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.

Hebrews 10:39​
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b​
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
Death, not eternal torture.

James 4:12a​
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
Destroy, not eternally torture.

2 Peter 2:1​
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Destruction, not eternal torment.

2 Peter 3:7-9​
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Peter tells what will happent to ungodly men, they will be judged and then destroyed. All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12​
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?

Jude 5​
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 10​
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Revelation 2:11b​
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.

Revelation 17:8​
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.

Revelation 18:8​
For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
The greek word katakauthesetai comes from katakaio and means utterly burnt up, destroyed, not eternally burned alive. (The greek is future passive indicative tense, therefore it is the word katakauthesetai).

Revelation 20:14-15​
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us, the lake of fire is the second death. If anyones name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death. It is not eternal living torment.

Revelation 21:8​
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.

(all scriptures are NASB, definitions are Strong's or Liddell-Scott)

Anyone, can find multiple verses to support their view. Be it Eternal Torment or Eternal Death.
Is this really a reason not to believe something? That there are multiple verses in the bible supporting the view?

There are 3 verses that seem to support ET.
Matt 25:46
Luke 16:23
Rev 14:11
That's all and even those verses, if properly understood, don't support ET.

But there are hundreds of verses that support eternal death for those who do not receive eternal life.​
 
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he-man

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The Prodigal is a good example of the ' greedy - stingy side ' .Most likely people fall into the same mindset as the stingy brother, who isn't too happy that the ' wicked ' brother is welcomed home when he comes around.
Home means welcomed BACK to CHRIST! Read the quote fromTimothew
It is throughout the bible. In Genesis, God said if you eat that it's going to kill you (or something like that). In Ezekiel, The one who sins will die.
Isaiah 66:16 says "For the LORD will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the LORD will be many."

I've posted my reasons from the NT on CF before:
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.


This says destruction, not eternal torment.


Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Body and Soul will be destroyed in hell. Not burned alive forever in hell.


Matthew 13:30 First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,



The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down. The tares are gone after they burned. The meaning is the same as in the last 2 verses, that the wicked will be destroyed. As Jesus says in verse 40,
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Just as the tares are destroyed by burning, the wicked people will be destroyed


Luke 13:3​


I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.

What apoleisthe does not mean is "will be tortured alive forever."



Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Matthew 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured).


and it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).



John 3:16


For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So either a person receives eternal life, or they perish. They die. They are not burned alive forever, they just perish.



John 8:21


Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
Jesus said they would die in their sin, not be burned alive forever.


Romans 6:23


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.


1 Corinthians 3:17


If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture alive forever.


Galations 6:8


For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.


The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.



2 Thessalonians 1:9


These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.

From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.



Hebrews 10:26-27,


For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.


Hebrews 10:39


But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
Death, not eternal torture.


James 4:12a


There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
Destroy, not eternally torture.


2 Peter 2:1


But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Destruction, not eternal torment.


2 Peter 3:7-9


But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Peter tells what will happent to ungodly men, they will be judged and then destroyed. All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.


1 John 5:12


He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?


Jude 5


Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.


Revelation 17:8


The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.

Revelation 18:8
For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
The greek word katakauthesetai comes from katakaio and means utterly burnt up, destroyed, not eternally burned alive. (The greek is future passive indicative tense, therefore it is the word katakauthesetai).


Revelation 20:14-15


Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us, the lake of fire is the second death. If anyones name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death. It is not eternal living torment.


Revelation 21:8


“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.


(all scriptures are NASB, definitions are Strong's or Liddell-Scott)




Is this really a reason not to believe something? That there are multiple verses in the bible supporting the view?



There are 3 verses that seem to support ET.


Matt 25:46


Luke 16:23


Rev 14:11


That's all and even those verses, if properly understood, don't support ET.




But there are hundreds of verses that support eternal death for those who do not receive eternal life.​
 
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msmorality

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It is throughout the bible. In Genesis, God said if you eat that it's going to kill you (or something like that). In Ezekiel, The one who sins will die.
Isaiah 66:16 says "For the LORD will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the LORD will be many."

I've posted my reasons from the NT on CF before:
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

This says destruction, not eternal torment.

Matthew 10:28​
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Body and Soul will be destroyed in hell. Not burned alive forever in hell.

Matthew 13:30​
First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,
The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down. The tares are gone after they burned. The meaning is the same as in the last 2 verses, that the wicked will be destroyed. As Jesus says in verse 40,​
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Just as the tares are destroyed by burning, the wicked people will be destroyed by burning, at the end of the age.

Luke 13:3​
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.
What apoleisthe does not mean is "will be tortured alive forever."

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Matthew 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured).
and it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).

John 3:16​
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So either a person receives eternal life, or they perish. They die. They are not burned alive forever, they just perish.


John 8:21​
Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
Jesus said they would die in their sin, not be burned alive forever.

Romans 6:23​
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17​
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8​
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.

The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9​
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:26-27,​
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.

Hebrews 10:39​
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b​
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
Death, not eternal torture.

James 4:12a​
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
Destroy, not eternally torture.

2 Peter 2:1​
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Destruction, not eternal torment.

2 Peter 3:7-9​
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Peter tells what will happent to ungodly men, they will be judged and then destroyed. All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12​
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?

Jude 5​
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 10​
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Revelation 2:11b​
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.

Revelation 17:8​
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.

Revelation 18:8​
For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
The greek word katakauthesetai comes from katakaio and means utterly burnt up, destroyed, not eternally burned alive. (The greek is future passive indicative tense, therefore it is the word katakauthesetai).

Revelation 20:14-15​
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us, the lake of fire is the second death. If anyones name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death. It is not eternal living torment.

Revelation 21:8​
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.

(all scriptures are NASB, definitions are Strong's or Liddell-Scott)


Is this really a reason not to believe something? That there are multiple verses in the bible supporting the view?

There are 3 verses that seem to support ET.
Matt 25:46
Luke 16:23
Rev 14:11
That's all and even those verses, if properly understood, don't support ET.

But there are hundreds of verses that support eternal death for those who do not receive eternal life.​

Thank you. You make a good case, and I can see why you would come to the conclusion you have.

Eternal Torment has the weakest case IMO. Considering God's kindness, patience and compassion."The LORD is gracious and righteous; our God is full of compassion."
Psalm 116:4-6

Seriously we forget that more often than not.



I still do not see why burning people in a fire to consume or destroy them is better than Eternal Torment. It sounds just as cruel and unforgiving as Eternal Torment.

IF God not longer counts sins against the people of this world( 2 Cor 5:19 ) , and if God keeps no records of wrong ( 1 Cor 13). And if Grace is not from ourselves ( ep 2::cool:, and if God is long suffering, slow to anger, full of mercy and forgiveness( Jam 5:11) . Why would He need to destroy people by burning them to death ?

And when God destroyed the world with a flood, how do we know for certain that God did not extend hope to them as well ? After all God is forgiving, Patient and kind.

There is a greater hope that God's love will transform all people, beyond what we see in this life.

"For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God." 1Pt 4:6
 
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Timothew

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Eternal Torment and Eternal Death are one in the same..

I don't think that they are the same:
tor·ment
1. Great physical pain or mental anguish.
2. A source of harassment, annoyance, or pain.
3. The torture inflicted on prisoners under interrogation.

tr.v. (tôr-m
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) tor·ment·ed, tor·ment·ing, tor·ments 1. To cause to undergo great physical pain or mental anguish. See Synonyms at afflict.
2. To agitate or upset greatly.
3. To annoy, pester, or harass

death
1. The act of dying; termination of life.
2. The state of being dead.
3. The cause of dying: Drugs were the death of him.
4. A manner of dying: a heroine's death.
5. often Death A personification of the destroyer of life, usually represented as a skeleton holding a scythe.
6. a. Bloodshed; murder.
b. Execution.
7. Law Civil death.
8. The termination or extinction of something: the death of imperialism.
 
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