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Animal death before the Fall.

Discussion in 'Creation & Theistic Evolution' started by elopez, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. theFijian

    theFijian Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Instead of directing the question to me, why don't you go to the text and examine why the word for 'good' or 'very good' is used instead of the word for 'perfect'.

    God declares at the end of each Creation day that his work is tôwb (good), he then declares at the end of the week that all of creation is me'ôd tôwb (very good). It is not described as tâmîym (perfect - eg Deut 32:4). Nevermind asking me why Creation isn't "perfect", why don't you look to the Bible itself and ask why Creation isn't described as perfect.
     
  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Is God perfect? How would you describe "holy-ness"? He walked on the earth with Adam. He is holy. How was it possible to walk with Adam, for Adam to be in the presence of a holy God?

    In God proclaiming His creation good, He was "pleased", was He not? Would anything with "flaws" in it, or not perfect "please" Him?
     
  3. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    Just because God is perfect does not mean he has to create something perfect. Also, how does one even define perfect? It's such a nebulous word. Examine it, and you will find almost everyone has a different definition for it.

    Omnipotence has its benefits.
     
  4. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    Ask Jesus.

    God was pleased by the death of animal sacrifices, wasn't He? And death, according to you, isn't perfect.
     
  5. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    It is written that no man can see the face of God and live.
     
  6. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    It's also written:

    "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
    "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)
     
  7. theFijian

    theFijian Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'll presume this means you want to dance around the issue rather than address the fact that the text doesn't say what you want it to say. I can only assume you don't read the text literally.
     
  8. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Then why did God show only His back as He was walking away from Moses?
     
  9. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    I'll take a stab at that if you answer my question about the Tree of Life first! :p
     
  10. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Who was the Tree of Life? Did you not see post #72 by NNSV? Does the response not address your question? Who IS LIfe? And from what does Life germinate from?
     
  11. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    You tell me! That's what I'm asking you!
     
  12. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Post #72 is an excellent response to your question. Have you read it?

    Here it is:

     
  13. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    I have! And I think it's a great metaphorical interpretation of Genesis 2-3. You're happy chalking these chapters up to metaphor?
     
  14. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    In your opinion it is metaphor. In my opinion it is not.
     
  15. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    So... you believe that Jesus is literally a tree??? :confused:
     
  16. theFijian

    theFijian Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Satan is both the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Serpent?
     
  17. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    Good ol' hardcore literalism strikes again.
     
  18. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Is death literal? Is sin? Is seperation from God because of sin literal? Was Jesus' death on the cross, because of sin, literal?

    Was God joshing in any parts of the Bible? Or was He dead serious?
     
  19. NNSV

    NNSV Newbie

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    Yes. There is a lot going on in Genesis 2 and 3; it isn't just about eating the wrong fruit, and talking animals.

    Satan is referred to as the dragon, that old serpent. The serpent in the garden was the one that tempted Eve to eat the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil. Eve saw it as a tree pleasing to the eye, capable of making one wise. Satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    The dragon is worshiped as wisdom in some east Asian philosophies. The bible calls the serpent more subtle than any other beast on the field.

    After the serpent conned Eve, and even persuaded Adam, into eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we see that Eve is pregnant with twins. One is Cain, which is not Adam's son (see Geneses 5 for Adam's genealogy,) and the other is Adam's son Abel/Seth.

    So, whose son is Cain? He is the son of satan and Eve, literally. Again, check Genesis 5 and you will notice Cain is not listed as one of Adam's sons, but Cain has his own lineage listed in Chapter 4:16-24. The event that happened in the garden was an attempt at totally polluting the human seed line. That is why God puts enmity between Adam's seed, and the serpent's seed.
     
  20. Mallon

    Mallon Senior Veteran

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    I very much believe that the things you just mentioned are real (if that's what you meant by "literal"), but that doesn't mean that Genesis 2 and 3 are not metaphorical. The things Jesus taught about in his parables are very real, too, but his parables were still metaphorical. And because simply a story is metaphorical doesn't make it a 'joke'. I don't know where you got that from.

    (BTW, I've offered a prayer on behalf of your sister. I hope she recovers, and may God give her strength in her battle against liver cancer.)
     
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