Angry Men

[bèlla]

Well, I don't view it all that moralistically (what people do in their bedroom, consensually, is their business), but a sadomasochistic relationship isn't exactly something I think people should go out of their way to emulate.

If that is true why are you commenting on a form of relating that is wholly relegated to the bedroom?

Would you say the same holds true for homosexual and transgender relationships? Should people avoid these as well?

 

[MehGuy]

No, of course not. But that's not the only way people are sexually damaged.

Alright good, just checking.

Just that idea gets floated around, and such a notion is pretty offensive.

 

[MehGuy]

I'd like to say sadomasochistic relationships have to do with more than just sex.

Romance is probably more important than anything for me, personally.

 

[FireDragon76]

If that is true why are you commenting on a form of relating that is wholly relegated to the bedroom?

I'm saying it's wrong to try to pressure somebody who is "vanilla" into BDSM, or to regard them as immature. There is nothing wrong with being "vanilla". It is not an inferior sexual identity. In many cases the people are simply uncomplicated... which is not a bad thing at all. They acecpt pleasure as pleasure and love as love, without having to associate either with pain.

Would you say the same holds true for homosexual and transgender relationships? Should people avoid these as well?

No. I have made my feelings on both clear in the past: I regard it as an evil to condemn LGBT people for whom they love or how they view their own gender.

 

[bèlla]

I'm saying it's wrong to try to pressure somebody who is "vanilla" into BDSM, or to regard them as immature.

Do you feel that pressure is commonplace?

No. I have made my feelings on both clear in the past: I regard it as an evil to condemn LGBT people for whom they love or how they view their own gender.

Do you think similar behaviors exist amongst homosexuals?

 

[FireDragon76]

Do you feel that pressure is commonplace?

No.

I don't think disgruntled young men are generally unhappy because they won't embrace kink, though, which is what was implied at one point. Their problems aren't with sex really, but with themselves and their expectations of the world. Modern western society wants to idolize sex, so I could see how some people overemphasize the importance of sexuality, but disgruntled, maladjusted, angry young men have deeper problems than "getting laid".

Do you think similar behaviors exist amongst homosexuals?

Yes, of course.

 

[Paidiske]

I think the idea is concerned with their relationship with women, not with God. You could call us "eunuchs", for our own sake.

But God calls us into relationship with others; not necessarily marriage, but to be part of an interdependent community of people. To let God claim you is, by default, to commit to being part of the body that comes with it.

Rejecting others then seems incompatible. (Now, I do take the point about the "tired" older couple. Churches are often all too willing to use people up and spit them out, and then blame them for their lack of enthusiasm. Nothing about that is right, either).

Femininity is a biological fact, not a social construct.

No. Femaleness is biology. (Primary and secondary sexual characteristics etc). Femininity is gender-based behaviour. Since our behaviours are culturally conditioned, so are our expressions of femininity and masculinity.

I think that too many women abandon their true and much needed strengths for the siren song of their limited gifts.

I do hope you don't intend that to read as if women have "limited" gifts in general. But I would say each person is unique, has a unique, God-given mix of gifts, personality, character and so on; and that that is what should be put to the service of our vocation. We shouldn't let society tell us that girls (or boys) don't do particular things, or that girls (or boys) must do particular things, but should live authentically out of our God-given identity.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I think the American Way of living on the financial edge and swimming in debt is somewhat emasculating. Add in the health care guillotine where even the insured can be financially broken by unforseen expenses....

Aren't those legitimate reasons to get angry? The system is rigged on purpose to deny equal opportunity from a lot of ordinary men, and that is genuinely unfair.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Capitalism (in our society) rewards doers, risk takers, and those with gifts and talents the majority don’t possess. And we love stories about people overcoming the odds to succeed. I don’t believe most have a sink or swim mentality. But those with the greatest wealth and power do.

That was the old skool capitalism. The corrupt capitalism that has replaced it does not honest, hard-working, fair heroes make.

Today's billionaires and wannabes have not build anything, have not invented anything, have not created jobs and otherwise contributed to the wellbeing of their community and common good. They sit in glass towers playing with faceless algorithms as they buy and trade to increase their personal fortune without any care how many communities and families get hurt, laid-off, evicted, environments and livelihoods destroyed for their greed. It's always someone else who pays the price of their misadventures. The sense of personal responsibility is gone.

We love convenience and pampering too. Love it!

Different culture. We respect sisu above all! Our President was snapped shoveling snow from his driveway after a particularly ferous snowstorm and his popularity shot through the roof. Proof that he is anything but lazy.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I agree, most women are not into sexual abuse.

They're still allured by Christian Grey's dominate/sadistic qualities.

I'm not trying to argue that women want everything represented in that character.

Yup. People are also allured by Hannibal Lecter's cannibalistic serial killer tendencies, and not least because of Athony Hopkins' fine acting. Or by The Bridge's Saga Norén's insensitive and rude attitude. Doesn't mean we want to be as unempathic as Saga or that we are into one-night-stands and treating our partner(s) indifferently or being treated that way.

The Bond franchise endures, but that doesn't mean men secretly want to be subjected to the sadistic torture of a Bond Villain, de rigueur in every Bond adventure.

 

[FireDragon76]

Aren't those legitimate reasons to get angry? The system is rigged on purpose to deny equal opportunity from a lot of ordinary men, and that is genuinely unfair.

The problem is misdirected anger... typically against people that are also victims of the same system.

 

[FireDragon76]

Capitalism (in our society) rewards doers, risk takers, and those with gifts and talents the majority don’t possess.

I think it's more complicated than that.

Alot of the entrepreneurs in our society that come up with new products or services demonstrate divergent thinking, not the sort of conformity that many conservatives in middle America think is upstanding. So it can be down to more than just hard work, it's also intelligence and creativity.

And we love stories about people overcoming the odds to succeed. I don’t believe most have a sink or swim mentality.

It's all part of the Puritan package of trying to figure out if you've lived a life worthy of election. Of course that leads to individualism.

 

[Kalevalatar]

The problem is misdirected anger... typically against people that are also victims of the same system.

The populists area doing a great disservice for their constituents by misdirecting the anger toward those with whom they should join forces to challenge the system.

 

[durangodawood]

OK. so when you say...

Any job that defeminizes a women should be avoided...

What are some examples of those jobs?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Femininity is gender-based behaviour.

That's what I said.

I do hope you don't intend that to read as if women have "limited" gifts in general. But I would say each person is unique, has a unique, God-given mix of gifts, personality, character and so on; and that that is what should be put to the service of our vocation. We shouldn't let society tell us that girls (or boys) don't do particular things, or that girls (or boys) must do particular things, but should live authentically out of our God-given identity.

That's a big problem, people doing whatever they want to do (developing their "gifts") rather than doing what is needed.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

OK. so when you say...

What are some examples of those jobs?

Jobs that require great physical strength would do it.

 

[mama2one]

Jobs that require great physical strength would do it.

that eliminates being a mom
carrying around kids is no easy feat

one of my neighbors used to carry her child in a backback on her back while she mowed
if hadn't seen it with my own eyes, wouldn't believe it, either

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As for MGTOW, how Christian men can proclaim "self-ownership" while confessing Christ as Lord does baffle me a bit.

As one can see MGTOW is a hodgepodge of disparate ideas and attitudes that can't properly applied to any one person. However their is some truth and value to it.

Men Going Their Own Way - Wikipedia

 

[ChicanaRose]

The populists area doing a great disservice for their constituents by misdirecting the anger toward those with whom they should join forces to challenge the system.

In light of the question from the OP, how can we (ordinary citizens) manage our anger (even if it is a legitimate anger) in a healthy way?

For example, taking actions towards change civilly and praying (healthy) versus bashing (unhealthy)?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In light of the question from the OP, how can we (ordinary citizens) manage our anger (even if it is a legitimate anger) in a healthy way?

For example, taking actions towards change civilly and praying (healthy) versus bashing (unhealthy)?

Do what I do. Come out of her! Take care of number one. Be the best you can be and leave the rest to God. We can't save the world but we can be what the world needs in order to be saved. Be the solution, not the problem.

Consider all the kids that went on strike for the environment last week. Those poor disillusioned kids don't realize it but they are the future problem, not the future solution. They will place the same or greater destructive demands on the environment than this generation of consumers. They see their opportunity for material success in jeopardy and they are frightened that they won't attain what they believe they are entitled to. So sad.