Angels & Demons?

[spiritfilledjm]

That is just you trying to reason things out and assume things. You haven't operated in that gift obviously.

The actual discerning of spirits gift can reveal evil spirits if needed, just as much as angels. Normally evil spirits are hideous looking and can invoke fear in a person, so The Holy Spirit sometimes does not reveal them completely, just their outline and the information about them to be cast down.

Can you show me in the Bible where someone saw a demon?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Can you show me in the Bible where someone saw a demon?

Surely Jesus saw them. Saw into their hearts to see if they were lying as the were to be driven out into the pigs.

Jesus could see in to the spirit realm. He spoke to Nathan about seeing him under the fig tree.

 

[ARBITER01]

Can you show me in the Bible where someone saw a demon?

Is there a gift called discerning of angels?

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Is there a gift called discerning of angels?

I'm not doubting the gift of discernment.

There are several instances recorded in the Bible of how angels appear and what they look like. Is there a record in Scripture of what demons look like?

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Surely Jesus saw them. Saw into their hearts to see if they were lying as the were to be driven out into the pigs.

Jesus could see in to the spirit realm. He spoke to Nathan about seeing him under the fig tree.

Matthew 8:30-32 does not show that they were seen, only that they went from the men into the pigs.

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm not doubting the gift of discernment.

There is no such gift as the gift of discernment.

Is there a gift called discerning of angels?

 

[spiritfilledjm]

There is no such gift as the gift of discernment.

Is there a gift called discerning of angels?

Stop trying to play semantics.

There are several instances recorded in the Bible of how angels appear and what they look like. Is there a record in Scripture of what demons look like?

 

[ARBITER01]

Stop trying to play semantics.

I'm not playing semantics, I'm asking a simple question to make you think. Do I need to answer the question for you?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Matthew 8:30-32 does not show that they were seen, only that they went from the men into the pigs.

As from Acts 26:18 and from what Jesus promised Nathan, we know He could see the spirit world.
John 1 BSB
50Jesus said to him, “Do you believe just because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these.” 51Then He declared, “Truly, truly, I tell you, you will all see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”j

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

There is no such gift as the gift of discernment.

Is there a gift called discerning of angels?

God promises the ability to discern, not only learned ability, and then to be able to distinguish spirits, angel from demon from human from God's.

 

[ARBITER01]

God promises the ability to discern, not only learned ability, and then to be able to distinguish spirits, angel from demon from human from God's.

The question is for mister jm.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I'm not playing semantics, I'm asking a simple question to make you think. Do I need to answer the question for you?

If anything, it'd be great if you could answer the question I had asked first, before you asked me yours.

To answer your question, no, it is not specifically called discernment of angels but of spirits. However, that does not change the fact that there are several records in the Word of what angels look like and how they appear, however, thus far, there has been no evidence given to show that anyone in Scripture saw a demon in the physical realm like angels have been seen repeatedly in Scripture. Kinda interesting to note here though that the Greek word used here, διάκρισις (diakrisis), actually means the act of judgment. Literally, judging and distinguishing between the spirits, so that one can know which is of God and which is of the enemy. Some translations use distinguishing, others discerning. Regardless, we know what is meant when one calls it "The gift of discernment" or "discernment of spirits". It has nothing to do with seeing, in the physical, the spirits. Angels showed up whenever God sent them to show. However, again, there does not seem to be a record of a demon, in a corporeal form, being seen in scripture, unless, again, you can show me where this is recorded and the description is given.

 

[Francis Drake]

Respectfully no, it does not. The Holy Spirit dwells in the beliver and a demon or false teachings can dwell in an apostate. This is the gift of discernment between the two.This does not cover visitations from the spiritual realm. Blessings.

Demons frequently dwell in believers, not just apostates.

 

[Francis Drake]

I'm listening to the book 'The Veil: an invitation to the unseen realm' by Blake K Healy. He's a Christian and claims to have seen both demons and angels since he was a child. This isn't something I learned about growing up as a Methodist and I've always tended to stay away from the subject.

Anyway, now I'm reading this book and wonder what Christians of different denominations think about this kind of 'gift'. It doesn't seem like a gift to me to see demons and it scares me even thinking that there are demons everywhere!
Anyone read the book or familiar with the subject?

I have seen demons, although usually I just discern their presence during deliverance when we are casting them out.

I have also occasionally seen angels, or discerned their presence.

I am sad and appalled at the massive level of unbelief as I read through this conversation.

 

[Francis Drake]

I will add though...that this person who wrote the book can be easily discerned as someone who lays out a stumbling block to those who are weak in faith by directing ones attention to things other than Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Goodness me Maria, why on earth is it a stumbling block to draw people's attention to the reality of the spiritual realm.
As a new believer in the 70s. it was learning the reality of such things that woke me up to the power of what Jesus did for us.

 

[Francis Drake]

There are plenty of instances throughout the Bible of people seeing angels, with descriptions, so that's not really unbiblical. As far as seeing demons, I cannot think of any time that anyone recorded seeing a demon. They may have discerned that a demon had possessed a person or that a spirit was even afflicting them (Paul). However there are no descriptions in the Bible of the demons or spirits like there are of angels. Therefore, that part of it is unbiblical.

Calling something unbiblical in this context is plain daft. Does the fact that my and my wife's names don't appear in the bible make our marriage "unbiblical"?

In over 40 years of warfare, I have seen both angels and demons at work, most by discernment, but also with clarity.

 

[ARBITER01]

If anything, it'd be great if you could answer the question I had asked first, before you asked me yours.

To answer your question, no, it is not specifically called discernment of angels but of spirits. However, that does not change the fact that there are several records in the Word of what angels look like and how they appear, however, thus far, there has been no evidence given to show that anyone in Scripture saw a demon in the physical realm like angels have been seen repeatedly in Scripture. Kinda interesting to note here though that the Greek word used here, διάκρισις (diakrisis), actually means the act of judgment. Literally, judging and distinguishing between the spirits, so that one can know which is of God and which is of the enemy. Some translations use distinguishing, others discerning. Regardless, we know what is meant when one calls it "The gift of discernment" or "discernment of spirits". It has nothing to do with seeing, in the physical, the spirits. Angels showed up whenever God sent them to show. However, again, there does not seem to be a record of a demon, in a corporeal form, being seen in scripture, unless, again, you can show me where this is recorded and the description is given.

That was a nice try.

First off, I'm not out to somehow make you look bad. You made a statement based around an assumption you had, not a teaching in scripture, and I would like for you see how such a stance can be quite deceptive.

There are a few ways to rightly divide the word of GOD, all of them rely upon the leading of The Holy Spirit.

In this case, I'm just going to use some Greek definitions,...

1Co 12:10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues:

- Original: διάκρισις
- Transliteration: Diakrisis
- Phonetic: dee-ak'-ree-sis
- Definition:
1. a distinguishing, discerning, judging
- Origin: from G1252
- TDNT entry: 18:49,5
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

- Strong's: From G1252; judicial estimation: - discern (-ing) disputation.
Total KJV Occurrences: 3
• discern, 1
Heb_5:14

• discerning, 1
1Co_12:10

• disputations, 1
Rom_14:1

To discern means to see through to the truth. What particular faculty/sense is used by a Christian to discern a spirit by this gift? The eyes. The spiritual world is opened temporarily unto us by The Holy Spirit for a specific reason.

- Original: πνεῦμα
- Transliteration: Pneuma
- Phonetic: pnyoo'-mah
- Definition:
1. the third person of the triune God, the holy spirit, coequal, coeternal with the father and the son
a. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \Holy\ Spirit)
b. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the spirit of \Truth\)
c. never referred to as a depersonalised force
2. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b. the soul
3. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a. a life giving spirit
b. a human soul that has left the body
c. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2. the spiritual nature of christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of christ
4. the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a. the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5. a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a. of the wind, hence the wind itself
b. breath of nostrils or mouth
- Origin: from G4154
- TDNT entry: 11:32,9
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Neuter

- Strong's: From G4154; a current of air that is breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit that is (human) the rational soul (by implication) vital principle mental disposition etc. or (superhuman) an angel daemon or (divine) God christ´s spirit the holy spirit: - ghost life spirit (-ual -ually) mind. Compare G5590.

The word "spirit" being in the plural takes this beyond just one type of spirit. It can't be just angels since it is in the plural, nor could it be just an evil spirit, again since it is in the plural. Obviously by the definition here, evil spirits are included.

You might have had a case if the name of the gift was discerning of angels, hence why I asked you if there was such a gift, but since this gift is specifically "spirits" in the plural, it can't just see only angels.

 

[ARBITER01]

Calling something unbiblical in this context is plain daft. Does the fact that my and my wife's names don't appear in the bible make our marriage "unbiblical"?

Oh my gosh,.....how dare you marry that woman that GOD did not name in His word!!!!!!!

Rightly dividing the word of GOD is something that young folks nowadays never learned from The Holy Spirit it seems. They all want their McPosition in their church so they don't have time to learn things properly.

 

[Francis Drake]

It simply boils down to, if you believe accounts like this, you are believing a man or women at their statements. That what they are calming to see is actually true.

You believe the statements of a mere man every time you listen to someone teaching the bible, so why don't you dismiss them with equal distain?
And don't say you believe these teachers because it's in bible, no it's not, it's just one opinion of what the bible says.
There are thousands of different teachings for same passages of the bible, and even if 10% were right, the other 90% must be false teachers!
At the end of the day, it's mere opinion of man that decides what is right.

This has nothing to do with what is recorded in The Bible, those are inspired revelations from God, and are true.

The bible is obviously true, but what the bible means is always open to argument as the thousands of threads on this forum proves daily.

I just know for me a believer for many of years, who has no mental problems, has not once seen any visions, angels or demons.

I've never seen a duck billed platypus either, but that's no valid measure of what other people have seen!

So if people, want to take sinful people at their word, that is their prerogative.

You take sinful bible teachers and pastors at their word.

Because people now in this age for some reason seek information on or about God, the spiritual world, creation, etc.. outside of what God has provided for humanity in The Bible. The Bible just seems not adequate enough in this day and age.

Goodness me, this is the Spiritual gifts forum, and you come here denying that God uses these gifts to give wisdom and information to his children!
And for your information, nowhere in the bible does it say that it is the sum total of all information on or about God, or about his intentions.

 

[Francis Drake]

Oh my gosh,.....how dare you marry that woman that GOD did not name in His word!!!!!!!

Rightly dividing the word of GOD is something that young folks nowadays never learned from The Holy Spirit it seems. They all want their McPosition in their church so they don't have time to learn things properly.

When Paul accused his listeners of being milk drinkers and too immature to eat meat, it helps to examine the context.

If we watch any baby feeding, it hungrily suckles its fill then immediately falls asleep.
Such is what we see in countless churches, Christians suckling at the tit of their pastor weekly (weakly) and falling asleep for the seven days to next feed time.

And for those still claiming their pastors feed them meat.-
In Paul's time, as the baby was being weaned and ready for solid food, what did mother do with no access to a blender or grater?
She first chewed the food over in her mouth and then fed the well minced up bits to her baby!

And that depicts exactly what today's Christians call meaty teaching, prechewed by their pastors and dead easy to digest!

Any mature believer should be fully able to take their own lump of meat, and either chew it himself, spitting the gristle and bone out, or use his knife to do the same. Sometimes unpalatable stuff needs harsh chewing in order to crush and grind the goodness out.

Babies cannot do that, neither can most Christians. Spiritual discernment seems a lost cause for most.