And he gave ...

[ARBITER01]

The topics of tongues, healing, and prophecy are not the focus of this discussion thread.

Did I say that it was?

It is one of the teachings from Paul is it not? I do believe I have generalized my statements enough not to entirely focus on that part.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Did I say that it was?

It is one of the teachings from Paul is it not? I do believe I have generalized my statements enough not to entirely focus on that part.

Saint Paul discusses such gifts, yet he is neither their origin nor does his commentary serve as the definitive teaching on contemporary Pentecostal church practices.

 

[ARBITER01]

Saint Paul discusses such gifts, yet he is neither their origin nor does his commentary serve as the definitive teaching on contemporary Pentecostal church practices.

If you don't want to talk about it, then quit talking about it.

 

[RandyPNW]

The majority of the NT teaching came through Paul.

Indeed! However, Paul confirmed his own teaching with that of the 12 Apostles, who had been with Christ for several years. The information had to be confirmed as authentic Jesus Teaching, even after Paul received his teaching by revelation. Matthew was an apostle. Mark was acquainted with the Apostle Peter. Luke was acquainted with the Apostles, along with Paul. John was an apostle. James was likely Jesus' brother. Jude was likely Jesus' brother, as well. I don't know who wrote Hebrews. But Paul was so important as an apostle because his outreach to the Gentiles was ground-breaking. He extended what began in Israel to the whole world.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Indeed! However, Paul confirmed his own teaching with that of the 12 Apostles, who had been with Christ for several years. The information had to be confirmed as authentic Jesus Teaching, even after Paul received his teaching by revelation. Matthew was an apostle. Mark was acquainted with the Apostle Peter. Luke was acquainted with the Apostles, along with Paul. John was an apostle. James was likely Jesus' brother. Jude was likely Jesus' brother, as well. I don't know who wrote Hebrews. But Paul was so important as an apostle because his outreach to the Gentiles was ground-breaking. He extended what began in Israel to the whole world.

If you do a word count Saint Paul (on 32,408) is a little less than St Luke (on 37,932).

 

[Guojing]

Maturity develops over time through learning and education, which is why God has provided the Church with pastors, bishops, evangelists, among others.

So basically you believe it will never be reached.

Then why did Paul use the past tense, gave?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So basically you believe it will never be reached.

Then why did Paul use the past tense, gave?

That would be because Paul was one of the apostles that God gave, of course God will continue to give godly men as bishops and will continue to give godly men as bishops, this also applies to pastors and evangelists and the other gifts in men that God gives.

 

[Dan Perez]

"Until all of us come to the unity of the faith" is future tense.

And when looking at the Greek text of Eph 4:13 , the words , Until we may all come into the UNITY OF FAITH , is NOT in the FUTURE TENSE !!

Here is what is really was written in Eph 4:13 !!!!

UNTIL WE ALL // PAS - is in the NOMINATIVE CASE , and in the Plural .

COME // KATARAO , a verb in the Greek PAST TENSE , called an AORIST TENSE , SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD , in the Plural

IN // EIS , is a preposition

THE // HO , is a DEFINITE ARTICLE that is pointing to the next Greek word and in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , means Limited and

and in the SINGULAR .

UNITY // HENOTES , also in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR

OF THE // also a DEFINITE ARTICLE , , and in the GENITIVE CASE of Absolute

FAITH // PISTIS , also in the GENTIVE CASE , in the SLINGULAR .

There n NO FUTURE TENSE at all , so check the Greek text again !!

dan p

 

[ARBITER01]

Indeed! However, Paul confirmed his own teaching with that of the 12 Apostles, who had been with Christ for several years. The information had to be confirmed as authentic Jesus Teaching, even after Paul received his teaching by revelation. Matthew was an apostle. Mark was acquainted with the Apostle Peter. Luke was acquainted with the Apostles, along with Paul. John was an apostle. James was likely Jesus' brother. Jude was likely Jesus' brother, as well. I don't know who wrote Hebrews. But Paul was so important as an apostle because his outreach to the Gentiles was ground-breaking. He extended what began in Israel to the whole world.

Jesus was establishing churches and Paul's teaching reflects guidance from The Lord to them.

 

[Guojing]

That would be because Paul was one of the apostles that God gave, of course God will continue to give godly men as bishops and will continue to give godly men as bishops, this also applies to pastors and evangelists and the other gifts in men that God gives.

If you are reasoning in this manner, then you will have to say that will also be true for "apostles" as well correct?

That means you believe God is still continuing to give us apostles with the same status as Paul?

 

[Always in His Presence]

You think that saint Paul is one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

No, but he did write 2/3 of the New Testament. The Apostles of the Lamb - other than John, James and Peter wrote nothing.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If you do a word count Saint Paul (on 32,408) is a little less than St Luke (on 37,932).

Here are the twelve:

1. Peter (Simon Peter):
2. Andrew: Peter’s brother
3. James (son of Zebedee):
4. John: James’ brother,
5. Philip: .
6. Bartholomew (Nathanael): .
7. Matthew (Levi): A former tax collector
8. Thomas: Famously known as “Doubting Thomas” .
9. James (son of Alphaeus):
10. Thaddeus (Jude):
11. Simon the Zealot:
12. Judas Iscariot:

You will note - Luke is NOT one of the twelve.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

If you are reasoning in this manner, then you will have to say that will also be true for "apostles" as well correct?

That means you believe God is still continuing to give us apostles with the same status as Paul?

bishops are the successors of the apostles.

 

[Always in His Presence]

bishops are the successors of the apostles.

No - they are not - but we have been down this road before and I'll not bring it up yet again.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No, but he did write 2/3 of the New Testament. The Apostles of the Lamb - other than John, James and Peter wrote nothing.

Saint Luke, who was not an apostle, wrote more of the New Testament than did saint Paul.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Here are the twelve:

1. Peter (Simon Peter):
2. Andrew: Peter’s brother
3. James (son of Zebedee):
4. John: James’ brother,
5. Philip: .
6. Bartholomew (Nathanael): .
7. Matthew (Levi): A former tax collector
8. Thomas: Famously known as “Doubting Thomas” .
9. James (son of Alphaeus):
10. Thaddeus (Jude):
11. Simon the Zealot:
12. Judas Iscariot:

You will note - Luke is NOT one of the twelve.

Number 12 was Matthias, not Judas Iscariot.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Saint Luke, who was not an apostle, wrote more of the New Testament than did saint Paul.

No - the only way you can say that is by somehow counting words.

If you look at the Books written Paul wrote 2/3 of the books in the New Testament and Luke wrote 2

Number 12 was Matthias, not Judas Iscariot.

Only after the death of Christ - did Jesus make a mistake?

 

[Guojing]

bishops are the successors of the apostles.

So you believe that apostles follow the past tense of that Ephesians passage, but the rest still continues today.

Is that how you will interpret that passage?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No - the only way you can say that is by somehow counting words.

If you look at the Books written Paul wrote 2/3 of the books in the New Testament and Luke wrote 2



Only after the death of Christ - did Jesus make a mistake?

You tell me if you think that Jesus made a mistake because I do not think he did.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So you believe that apostles follow the past tense of that Ephesians passage, but the rest still continues today.

Is that how you will interpret that passage?

No, that is not what I believe. I do not see how you got to that as a belief.