And call no man your father...

[God_Owned]

Ever since you got here you've been acting stupid with me--And you're gett'n all crazy on other members trying to be all high and mighty like, "I am Godown!! I r teh 1337 and I know more than what you know so I will come and throw all my scripture at you so I can prove that I am the alpha male, blah blah blah blah"--No one cares

I'm sure this post will get deleted, but I don't care You are just getting on my last nerve >.<

This should help you with your problem. It's from the KCM site.


Q. Brother Copeland, some time ago I was deeply hurt by another Christian. I've tried to forgive, yet every time I see that person I still feel angry and resentful. My friends tell me I'll be able to forgive in time - but it's been many months now and I still feel the same way. Will I ever be able to truly forgive?</SPAN>

A. Yes, you can and you must! Not next week or next month, either - you need to forgive that person today!

Spiritually speaking, unforgiveness is downright dangerous. It will make your spirit feeble and your prayers ineffective. It will pull the plug on your faith so completely that you won't have enough power to move the molehills in your life - much less the mountains.

Read Mark 11:22-25 and you'll see why I say that. There you'll find one of Jesus' most powerful teachings on faith. He concludes that teaching with these words, "And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have aught against any...."

Notice He didn't say, "When ye stand praying, try to forgive" or "When ye stand praying, forgive if you can." He simply said, "Forgive." Period.

Jesus made forgiveness a command. It would be unjust for Him to command us to do something we couldn't do. So you can be sure it's within your power to obey His command and forgive - no matter how badly you've been wronged.

Why then has it been so difficult for you to do so? Probably because you have fears that are holding you back. Most people don't realize it, but unforgiveness is actually a form of fear. Quite often we don't forgive because we're afraid of getting hurt again. We're afraid we're never going to recover from the damage that person has done to our lives.

If you want to freely forgive, get rid of those fears. Cleanse yourself from them by the "washing of the water by the word" (Ephesians 5:26). Fill your mind and heart with promises of God that apply to your situation.

If your business has been threatened by this person, for example, meditate on the fact that no weapon formed against you will prosper (Isaiah 54:17), and rely on the fact that your God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:19). Let the knowledge of the merciful, protective love of God cast out all your fears (see 1 John 4:18).

Then forgive, not by feelings but by faith. Do it the same way you would receive healing or anything else by faith. First, make a quality decision. Determine that you're going to do what God's Word instructs - no matter what. You're going to forgive.

Second, speak and act in accordance with that decision. Refuse to say anything negative about that person. Refuse to rehearse in your mind or with your mouth the hurt they have caused you. Instead, look for opportunities to bless that person both in word and in deed.

Finally, don't be moved by what you feel. Forgiveness is an act of the will, not feelings. When lying symptoms of unforgiveness well up inside you, come against them in faith. Say, "Praise God, I have forgiven that person by an act of my will. In the Name of Jesus, I'm not moved by these feelings. They'll just have to get in line. They'll have to submit to the faith and the love of God that's been shed abroad in my heart."

If you'll continue to do that, I can assure you from my own experience, your feelings will change. It may not happen overnight...but it will happen. One of these days, almost without thinking, you'll throw your arms around that person, give them a big hug and say, "I love you." What's more, you'll mean it from the bottom of your heart.

 

[God_Owned]

Preacher Chick, this should also help you,

Part 1

Living In the Fullness of Love
by Kenneth Copeland



What is the Spirit of God saying to you today? What is He telling you about your spiritual development…your family…and your finances? If you're facing trouble, what word of victory has He spoken to you?

As a born-again child of the living God, you ought to know the answers to those questions.

Consider for a moment what your life would be like if you were filled with the love of God. What would it be like to be overflowing with the presence of Jesus Christ Himself every day when you stepped out your front door? What would it be like to live in the fullness of His power, His wisdom and His strength?

If that's your situation, I'm going to be straight with you. You'd better go to God and find out what to do. You'd better be quiet long enough to hear what He has to say and pay attention to it. You'd better get rid of that fear and start believing God. Otherwise, the devil is going to end up getting the best of you.

No doubt, your life would be awesome!

That kind of life, however, exceeds anything most Christians could ever ask or think. In fact many would argue that living such a life is not possible. They wouldn’t think anyone this side of heaven could ever reach such spiritual heights.

But according to the New Testament—they would be mistaken. Written there, we find that’s exactly the kind of life believers are called to live. It’s the kind of life the Apostle Paul had in mind when, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he penned the prayer recorded in Ephesians 3:14-21:

For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height—to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen (New King James Version).

​

Clearly Paul believed it was possible for born-again children of God to be filled with His fullness. He had confidence in God’s ability to do (by the mighty power of the Holy Spirit who works within us) more than our little, peanut brains could even imagine.

Paul knew by divine revelation that God is truly able to glorify Himself through us!


It Starts With a Seed

“Well I just don’t see how that could ever happen,” you might say. “I don’t see how God’s fullness could ever be revealed through me.”

Then look again at that passage in Ephesians. It tells us exactly how to get filled with the fullness of God. We do it by becoming rooted and grounded in His love. We do it by developing such an intimate knowledge and experience of God’s love that we begin to comprehend the full extent of it.

Since He is love, when we comprehend and live completely in love we actually reveal God in His fullness.

The full comprehension of God’s love doesn’t just fall on us, however, like an apple falling out of a tree. It must grow up within us. And like anything that grows, it must start with a seed. That seed is the simple New Testament command of love found in Matthew 22, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. And thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (verses 37, 39).

When we first read that commandment of love as new believers, we know very little about it. But as we begin to meditate on it, confess it and align our lives with it, that command begins to root itself in our minds and hearts. If we stick with it, eventually we will become so grounded in the commandment of love that we’ll judge our whole lives by it.

When that happens, if somebody says something ugly to us, for example, instead of lashing out at them, we start searching for a way to keep the commandment and respond to them in love.

The more we practice yielding to love, the stronger our revelation of God’s love grows. Our comprehension of it increases and as a result, our lives are increasingly filled with the fullness of God.


Enter: the Devil

It’s actually a very simple process. So simple in fact, that you might wonder why we seem to have such a difficult time with it. Why, you might think, do we so quickly and so often lose sight of this all-important commandment of love?

The devil gets involved, that’s why. He is always working to sabotage our love walk.

If you want to know how he does it, read the parable of the sower recorded in Mark 4. There, Jesus says:

The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended (verses 14-17).

​

Those verses reveal the devil’s method of operation. They show us that as soon as the seed of God’s Word is planted in our hearts, he starts working to get rid of it. He starts trying to dig it up before it has a chance to take root.

What tool does he use to achieve this?

The tool of offense.

He sends a person along to say something mean to us that will hurt our feelings. He gets someone to irritate and provoke us until we step over into strife.

The very word translated devil in the Greek carries the idea of a constant irritating, poking, pressing or pecking away at something in order to penetrate and get entrance into it.

That’s the way Satan functions. He cannot change his pattern. He goes after the seed of the Word in your heart by poking at you through someone’s unkind words or actions. He harasses you with the thoughtless or irritating behavior of others. He pecks at you any way he can. He tries to provoke you into reacting so you’ll violate the commandment of love because when you do that, he gains entrance into your life. It enables him to pierce your soul like a thorn would pierce your finger. Then he keeps on working from that place to infect you more and more with his poison.

Avoid Strife Like You Would a Rattlesnake

No wonder Ephesians 4:26-27 says, “Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath. Neither give place to the devil.”

Giving the devil a place in our lives through offense and strife opens the door for him to steal the Word from us—and it’s the Word that heals us. It’s the Word that prospers us. It’s the Word that delivers us from the curse and transfers us into a life of blessing.

And most importantly, it’s the Word that roots us and grounds us in God’s love.

If we truly understood what an evil thing strife is, most of us would avoid it like a rattlesnake. We’d refuse to have anything to do with it. But most believers have never taken a serious look at what the Bible says about strife. They haven’t given much thought to verses like:

Proverbs 10:12, “Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.”

Proverbs 15:18, “A wrathful man stirreth up strife: but he that is slow to anger appeaseth strife.”

Proverbs 16:27-28, “An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire. A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.”

Proverbs 17:14, “The beginning of strife is like releasing water; therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts” (New King James Version).

The word translated strife in those verses denotes discord, lack of agreement or disharmony. It implies a struggling for superiority, pushing to get position. Strife arises from the fear that somebody is going to take advantage of you. Strife says, I have to fight to get what’s mine.

Most believers who have any spiritual maturity at all know better than to consciously engage in that kind of thinking. They know better than to jump into an open quarrel the first time somebody says something that irritates them. They’re too spiritually grown up to get into a fistfight with the pastor in the foyer of the church—no matter how much they might disagree with him.

So the devil sneaks up on them. He sends in some pious-looking deacon who will sidle up next to them and say, “What do think about that decision the pastor made about the small groups program? Do you really think he did the right thing?”

The truly wise believer cuts off that conversation right there. He refuses to start arguing (even in his own mind) about what the pastor decided. He recognizes the devil is trying to punch a hole in the harmony of the church so that strife can leak in. So he puts a stop to that contention right then and there.

He says, “Listen brother, I’m committed to my pastor, to this church and to the Lord Jesus Christ. I don’t know why pastor made the decision he did, but he’s made it so let’s just stick together and support him. In fact why don’t you and I just pray for him right now.”

That kind of response stops strife cold and sets the love of God into motion.

 

[God_Owned]

Ever since you got here you've been acting stupid with me--And you're gett'n all crazy on other members trying to be all high and mighty like, "I am Godown!! I r teh 1337 and I know more than what you know so I will come and throw all my scripture at you so I can prove that I am the alpha male, blah blah blah blah"--No one cares

I'm sure this post will get deleted, but I don't care You are just getting on my last nerve >.<

Part 2
Living In the Fullness of Love
by Kenneth Copeland

Can the Devil Take You Captive?

“Yeah, but Brother Copeland,” you might say, “I can’t help getting offended when somebody is mean to me. God understands that. And anyway, those warnings you cited about strife are in the Old Testament. As Christians we’re under the New Covenant. We’re under grace. Things are different now.”

Yes, thank God they are different. We have the blood of Jesus now to cleanse us from sin and unrighteousness. We’ve been born again and made partakers of God’s own nature. We’re no longer in bondage to the devil.

We’ve changed—but sin hasn’t.

Sin is just as sinful as it ever was. Strife is just as dangerous today as it was when the book of Proverbs was written. If you doubt it, take a look at Romans 13:13. It clearly instructs us to “walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy” (New King James Version).

Not only does that verse warn us as New Testament believers to steer clear of strife, it puts it in some very bad company. It ranks strife right alongside drunkenness and lust. First Corinthians 3:1-3 confirms that perspective. There the Apostle Paul tells the believers at Corinth that strife has kept them immature and carnal (or worldly). He writes: “And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”

Imagine that! The Apostle Paul could not teach the Corinthians the meat of the Word because of strife. It had reduced the whole congregation to such a low spiritual state that they were operating like unsaved men and women!

Strife will do the same thing to us today. It will deaden our spiritual senses. It will keep us from hearing from God. When we get into strife or we get offended with somebody, if we don’t repent and get our hearts right, we’ll find ourselves saying things like, “God doesn’t ever speak to me.”

Remember this: God never stops talking to us. He’s never an absentee Father. He is always speaking. He’s always counseling. He’s always encouraging us and building us up. But when we’re in strife we become too spiritually dense to know it.

That alone ought to be enough to convince us to avoid strife at any cost. But that’s not all the New Testament has to say about it. In 2 Timothy 2:24-26, Paul tells us, “The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”

Look again at the last part of that verse. It says that those who are in strife and opposition to others are in captivity to the devil. They become the devil’s puppet!

That’s a serious thing and we need to realize it can happen to any of us. If we get into strife, if we start jockeying for power and control or take offense because somebody doesn’t treat us the way we want them to, we’ll end up in bondage to the devil. He’ll be able to take us captive. He’ll be able to put us to work for him by pulling our quarreling string.

When he does that, we’ll fly off the handle about something and without even knowing it, we will end up serving the devil himself.

Love Never Fails

I’m sure you don’t desire to do that any more than I do. And we can keep that from happening. How? By putting the commandment of love first place in our lives. By thinking about how much God loves us and how much Jesus did for us on the cross instead of thinking about how somebody wronged us. We keep strife out of our hearts by acting on our love for the Lord.

If someone irritates you, say, “I can’t fuss with that person—no matter what they did. I’d be disobeying the Commander in Chief Himself. I’d be dishonoring the God I love.”

Once you’ve said that, if you’re still tempted to say something ugly, just shut your mouth! Don’t voice the words of strife and anger that rise up within you. James 3:6 says those words are like kindling wood that hell itself uses to set your whole nature on fire. So don’t say them. Don’t start the fire!

Instead step out by faith and begin to act in love. Do and say what love does and says: “Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8, New King James Version).

The more you practice obeying the commandment of love, the more rooted and grounded in love you’ll become. Before long, walking in love won’t even seem like a commandment anymore. It will become a privilege, an honor and a joy. You won’t desire to live any other way. The seed of love will be growing up within you. You’ll become rooted and grounded in it. You’ll begin to truly comprehend the love of God…and the God of love.

If you’ll keep on walking in love, every day as you step out your front door, you will be overflowing a little more with the presence of the Lord. Every day you’ll be living more of the life you are called and divinely designed to live—a life that is filled with all the fullness of God!

 

[chilifrankplate]

You statement is nonsense. It isn't legalism to make an inquiry where Christens are apparently doing something in direct conflict with a straight forward teaching of Jesus. I find most who accuse people of being legalistic in these types of situations are really just saying that it is to much trouble for me to consider what Jesus is saying because I may have to exercise my brain or change something I'm currently doing, so I just don't want to be bothered. Then they excuse their lack of desire to know the truth about a matter by accusing someone of being legalistic.

Maybe you should get into the Bible to support your point of view before you start hurling false accusation of legalism.

So you honestly believe that every time a Christian calls someone father that they are somehow placing that person above God? Or maybe taking something away from Him? Also, to try to hold people to this (or what your idea of what it is) is legalism. It's no different than churches today, or the pharisses of Jesus time trying to make people do things a certain way. We are called to be God's children, and to develope our relationship with Him, not to obey a bunch of rules. There are things that God wants of us, but He will deal with each of us as we walk with Him. Somehow I really doubt that me calling Kenneth, "dad" Hagin is at the top of His list of things to work on with me.

 

[God_Owned]

I think that you have me confused with another poster.

Please point out to me where I said any of the following.

"...every time a Christian calls someone father that they are somehow placing that person above God? Or maybe taking something away from Him?"

Again more nonsense. I simply made and inquiry and proffered some thoughts on the subject and here you are trying to put words in my mouth.

"Also, to try to hold people to this (or what your idea of what it is) is legalism. It's no different than churches today, or the pharisses of Jesus time trying to make people do things a certain way."

More nonsense. The New Testament is full of what you call rules. You should read it sometime instead of falsely accusing people of being legalistic.

We are called to be God's children, and to develope our relationship with Him, not to obey a bunch of rules.

Yet more nonsense. He tells all of us what he wants in the bib;le. True, he may deal with us on an individual basis to get us from where we are to where he wants us, but He is not a respecter of persons.

"There are things that God wants of us, but He will deal with each of us as we walk with Him."

I see that you've seen God's list. dad may not be an issue, but Dad is one. Like I said, Jesus thought enough of the subject to tell you not to call Earthly men Father. If you want to discovery Jesus that is up to you but you shouldn't attack other's because they think it important to obey Jesus. I expect that obedience and operating in love with others is at the top of His list for you.

"Somehow I really doubt that me calling Kenneth, "dad" Hagin is at the top of His list of things to work on with me."

 

[KingZzub]

I am very happy to call Ken Hagin "Dad" Hagin. I call my pastor and another man spiritual fathers. Paul talked about it - being the father of the Corinthian house.

There is a book called "Sons in the House" - everyone should have a local church where they relate to the pastor as a father figure.

Jesus was talking to the twelve in the OP: telling them: look you guys are the starters of this thing: don't let the Jews limit you with their religious tradition.

When you are determining doctrine: start with the Scriptures penned after God's resurrection...

Cheers,
|ZZ|

P.S.

A simple private message to PC would have sufficied, you didn't have to hijack the thread with three or four posts on love. Cheers.

 

[God_Owned]

I am very happy to call Ken Hagin "Dad" Hagin. I call my pastor and another man spiritual fathers. Paul talked about it - being the father of the Corinthian house.

There is a book called "Sons in the House" - everyone should have a local church where they relate to the pastor as a father figure.

Jesus was talking to the twelve in the OP: telling them: look you guys are the starters of this thing: don't let the Jews limit you with their religious tradition.

When you are determining doctrine: start with the Scriptures penned after God's resurrection...

Cheers,
|ZZ|

P.S.

A simple private message to PC would have sufficied, you didn't have to hijack the thread with three or four posts on love. Cheers.

First of all I didn't hijack anything. I started this thread.

Secondly, you've completely missed the point of the thread. It is not to discuss what you are happy with, but rather what does the Bible say about people who call those appointed over them as Father/Dad, etc.

There has been some credible discussion on this subject between amdntstr and myself. I consider the rest of what has been said here as less than sophistry.

 

[Deborah72]

Ever since you got here you've been acting stupid with me--And you're gett'n all crazy on other members trying to be all high and mighty like, "I am Godown!! I r teh 1337 and I know more than what you know so I will come and throw all my scripture at you so I can prove that I am the alpha male, blah blah blah blah"--No one cares

I'm sure this post will get deleted, but I don't care You are just getting on my last nerve >.<

PC, I want to give you a big hug. I think you need one right now.

 

[Deborah72]

I am very happy to call Ken Hagin "Dad" Hagin. I call my pastor and another man spiritual fathers. Paul talked about it - being the father of the Corinthian house.

There is a book called "Sons in the House" - everyone should have a local church where they relate to the pastor as a father figure.

Jesus was talking to the twelve in the OP: telling them: look you guys are the starters of this thing: don't let the Jews limit you with their religious tradition.

When you are determining doctrine: start with the Scriptures penned after God's resurrection...

Cheers,
|ZZ|

P.S.

A simple private message to PC would have sufficied, you didn't have to hijack the thread with three or four posts on love. Cheers.

I'm happy to call him Dad too.

 

[God_Owned]

I'm happy to call him Dad too.

Even if Jesus said not to?

 

[PastorMike]

I think we need to get back to the topic...

Jesus said " And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matt 23:9

What do you think He meant?

 

[KingZzub]

The issue is that what I am happy with is what the Bible teaches. Paul was emphatic that he was the father of the Corinthian church.

Now, either Paul was wrong in the pages of Holy Scripture or Jesus did not mean what Godsown thinks he meant.

I wonder which it is.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[God_Owned]

I think we need to get back to the topic...

Jesus said " And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matt 23:9

What do you think He meant?

Hi PreacherMike. As always, I'm delighted to hear from you.

I don't think that Jesus was referring to us calling our Earthly fathers, father. Also, there is the fact that God called Abraham the father of our faith.

Also, amdntstr brought up the following verses which pretty well substantiates the fact the it is perfectly alright to, that is if we choose to, call those appointed in authority over us as father.

1 Cor: 4:14-17
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children.
15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
16 Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.
17 For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church

I think that the real issue here is that there are times when father is appropriately used when referring to certain men on the
earth, but the use of the word Father is reserved solely for God because there is no higher.

I also did some additional reading and think that you previous post has merit. The religious leaders of Jesus' day were not wanting to be called father, but rather Father. They were not trying to be representatives of God in the people lives, but rather they were trying to elevate their position to be co-equal to, or even higher, than the Father in the lives of their followers.

I think that the use of the word father should be used as a term of love, not to denote summary authority or adulation of certain men in our lives, where as the use of the term Father should only be used when referring to God the Father.

There are many cults whose leaders, much like the religious leaders of Jesus' time, desire to be referred to as Father, Dad, Papa, etc. in order to assume a position of absolute authority and adulation in their followers lives. I do not believe that Hagin was a cult leader, but I do believe that he, and everyone in similarly situated positions of authority, should be very sensitive to how people refer to them. Because of their position they should be certain to avoid even the appearance of evil to all who view their lives.

I haven't closed the book on this one. I'm still reading and considering all serious comments and I thank you for your earlier comments.

On another note, I'm shocked to find how difficult it is here to make serious inquiry and have thought provoking and open discussions without being judged and attacked. I'm quite certain that Kenneth Hagin would never approve of this type of behavior.

 

[God_Owned]

The issue is that what I am happy with is what the Bible teaches. Paul was emphatic that he was the father of the Corinthian church.

Now, either Paul was wrong in the pages of Holy Scripture or Jesus did not mean what Godsown thinks he meant.

I wonder which it is.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

You have no clue what I think.

I'll respond to you when you say something worth responding to.

 

[KingZzub]

Mike,

IMO the matter is one of context. Paul said "Bring me my books" and "Take a little wine for your stomach's sake". I don't need to obey either of those commands because they were not addressed to myself.

The Old Testament tells me I have to take a lamb from my household and sacrifice it for a passover and daub the blood over my house, let alone the food laws and what I have to wear, and how I should treat my neighbour's donkey.

These all must be taken in the context of the passage:

[BIBLE]
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.' 8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[b] 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
[/BIBLE]

Now, if this entire passage is to be interpreted literally then we could not call people: Rabbi, Father or teacher. Hold on: Ephesians 4.11 calls people teachers. The New Testament recognises some people are teachers. The New Testament calls people father: Paul was father to the Corinthians, and to Timothy. Peter calls Mark his son, so what did Mark call Peter back?

The passage must be lined up against other Scriptures and also placed in context.

The context is in confronting the Pharisees. People with self-assumed and self-styled titles. It is also a Jewish issue: we do not need someone to intercede for us anymore: we have direct and complete access to God.

Now, some people who call Kenneth Hagin "Dad" may be people who wouldn't accept a revelation from God unless they lined it up with his teachings: this is clearly wrong. I don't know if people are like that; I certainly don't agree with everything the man taught.

Other people see him as a father: his teachings have impacted their lives, his teaching is why they are healthy, why they are wealthy, why they are without guilt and shame in the world. They should honour that man as the Corinthians honoured Paul. No problems - lines up with Scripture perfectly.

What Jesus is teaching is do not make an idol of a man, and do not let another man take the place of your personal intimacy with God.

This is why the Catholic church on the whole are disobeying this verse: they treat their priest, their father, as someone who approaches God on their behalf.

This is why I am not disobeying this verse. Pastor Richard Smith is my father. I owe my ministry to that man. But, I owe my salvation to the Lord. I know God is my Father, and I know in whom I believe. I would never dream of asking that man to do my spiritual walk for me.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

 

[KingZzub]

You have no clue what I think.

I'll respond to you when you say something worth responding to.

Actually what you say and how you say are a clear reflection of what you think.

When you say "I'll respond to you when you say something worth responding to" what you mean is "I'll respond to you when you say something I think is worth responding to."

What you subsequently respond to and the manner and spirit in which you respond tells me a lot about how you think.

So, I do have a clue about how you think. Unless you are not communicating what you think in what you say.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[God_Owned]

IMO the matter is one of context. Paul said "Bring me my books" and "Take a little wine for your stomach's sake". I don't need to obey either of those commands because they were not addressed to myself.

This does not apply to tithe context of this discussion.

The Old Testament tells me I have to take a lamb from my household and sacrifice it for a passover and daub the blood over my house, let alone the food laws and what I have to wear, and how I should treat my neighbour's donkey.

Again this does not apply to this conversation.

These all must be taken in the context of the passage:

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.' 8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[b] 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Now, if this entire passage is to be interpreted literally then we could not call people: Rabbi, Father or teacher. Hold on: Ephesians 4.11 calls people teachers. The New Testament recognises some people are teachers. The New Testament calls people father: Paul was father to the Corinthians, and to Timothy. Peter calls Mark his son, so what did Mark call Peter back?

The passage must be lined up against other Scriptures and also placed in context.

I already addressed this in my last post.

The context is in confronting the Pharisees. People with self-assumed and self-styled titles. It is also a Jewish issue: we do not need someone to intercede for us anymore: we have direct and complete access to God.

It is still an issue today because there are those who would presume to intercede between mans and God and I'm not referring to intercessory prayer.

Now, some people who call Kenneth Hagin "Dad" may be people who wouldn't accept a revelation from God unless they lined it up with his teachings: this is clearly wrong.

Obviously.

I don't know if people are like that; I certainly don't agree with everything the man taught.

I've never really found any point that I disagree with Hagin on. I've had some questions, but I've always considered him to be right on.

Other people see him as a father: his teachings have impacted their lives, his teaching is why they are healthy, why they are wealthy, why they are without guilt and shame in the world. They should honour that man as the Corinthians honoured Paul. No problems - lines up with Scripture perfectly.

You need to go back and read what I wrote. the central issue is not what people call Hagin. the central issue is whether or not there is ever an appropriate time to call a man Father rather than father. This is a distinction that is clearly made in the New Testament.

What Jesus is teaching is do not make an idol of a man, and do not let another man take the place of your personal intimacy with God.

Oh you mean not to call another Father, instead of father?

This is why the Catholic church on the whole are disobeying this verse: they treat their priest, their father, as someone who approaches God on their behalf.

Oh you mean that they treat their priest as Father.

This is why I am not disobeying this verse. Pastor Richard Smith is my father. I owe my ministry to that man. But, I owe my salvation to the Lord. I know God is my Father, and I know in whom I believe. I would never dream of asking that man to do my spiritual walk for me.

Sounds good to me.

Actually what you say and how you say are a clear reflection of what you think.

Maybe and maybe not. It depends whether or not I tell you what is really on my mind. Of course it make no difference if the person doing the examination either can't or won't correctly read what you write.

When you say "I'll respond to you when you say something worth responding to" what you mean is "I'll respond to you when you say something I think is worth responding to."

No, what I meant what I said. Mind reading is not a gift of the spirit. You should give it up as you aren't very good at it.

What you subsequently respond to and the manner and spirit in which you respond tells me a lot about how you think.

It tells me a lot about you and other on this board as well, most of which I would really rather not have known.

So, I do have a clue about how you think. Unless you are not communicating what you think in what you say.

You haven't convinced me as you have missed many of my points and I believe that you have miss read the spirit in which I started this thread. Although I have invited honest discourse on this thread's subject, I don't recall inviting you to judge me or to attack me.

Blessings!

I'm blessed going in and going out, but is has noting to do with you Sir.

 

[KleinerApfel]

On another note, I'm shocked to find how difficult it is here to make serious inquiry and have thought provoking and open discussions without being judged and attacked.

LOL! Ah, go on - surely you have been around here long enough not to be shocked by this little kerfuffle!

God bless, love Sue

 

[Preacherchick99]

I agree with Zzub--I honestly don't believe that you are WOF. If you were--You wouldn't be trying to cause drama and strife. Which you are doing

Good question and discussion though--Nice little plot to make it seem like you are all down with the Word and such.

I'm not buy'n it. Every one here that I have met in WOF has been awesome examples about what living for the Word is like, they have testamonies representing their faith and thought life--Just by chatting with them, I can see what they put into themselves daily. I heard Zzub preaching!! The dude rocks!! He hears from God! My arm was healed just by listening to him laying hands on someone else!!

Hisgirl is a total blessing to me! She has taken me under her wing like another daughter, giving me godly advice and correcting me where I need it. Her friendship and fellowship is something that I am grateful for because she lifts me up with her words--Because that's what comes out of her mouth--The Word.

The Lord is My Banner lives for God and it is evident. She has blessed me more than she knows! She made a thread a while back that I took the wrong way, and when she saw my reponse, she totally gave me a big ol' hug, and giving me blessings while she was at it! Apologizing if she implied something the wrong way!

ChiliFrankPlate is a awesome man of God who has deep revelation! You see his threads and you can't help but just be blessed! He's mah buddy! And I'm sure we'll get to meet very soon in April and we'll come back to CF all excited about how we got blessed and what not!

PreacherMike--This dude can preach. He's an awesome Irishman who knows the Word! You hear him or read what he has to say and it'll feed your spirit man!! He's a blessing just by posting his replies because he cares about us!

RiverPastor is sooo down to earth it rocks! This man of God posts things that will renew our minds through the Word, and he feeds us meat with the Word. His experiences within his life are a blessing, because he's real and he doesn't front.

J4Jesus--Now don't even get me STARTED on this chick!! Have you read her stuff?? *** this woman has awesome seed thoughts!! The stuff she posts blesses me EVERY SINGLE TIME!! Her revelation on the word is refreshing and like a breath of fresh air!! Read her stuff--And you'll learn a thing or two.

Mark2010 is an awesome man of God who is my great friend. If you take the time to get to know him, he'll bless you with his words! He will take the time out of his day to give you godly advice and just BE a friend! His friendship is worth more than words! This dude is BLESSED! Just sending him PM's is a blessing!

There are countless others here that I have not mentioned with their own paragraph, lolz. victoryword, littlerocketboy, Debtfree, Deborah72, etc....

You sir--Are a fake. I can already tell and all I did was write about everyone else. If you were a real WOF--You wouldn't be trying to cause drama Besides, someone who walks in love wouldn't cause drama and strife within the body.

One more thing--I apologize for acting crazy on you earlier. I could've been nicer, but I wasn't--And for that, I apologize. That was not representing excellence and that did not represent the love of God on the inside of me. I totally apologize, ask that you forgive me, and I'll be nicer.

But now that you've been exposed, I'm kinda wondering what you'll say next

 

[KingZzub]

Here is my question:

How can the New Testament make a distinction between father and Father when New Testament Greek has no capital letters?

Please explain that to me, Godsown, I am interested in your answer.