And call no man your father...

[KingZzub]

This does not apply to tithe context of this discussion.
Again this does not apply to this conversation.

Not true: my point is that not every command in the Word of God is to be taken by a believer. Some are specific to individuals, some are specific to groups of people. That is not irrelevant to this post and appropriate exegesis of Matthew 23 must identify the intended audience of Jesus' comment.

It is still an issue today because there are those who would presume to intercede between mans and God and I'm not referring to intercessory prayer.

Yes, but Dad Hagin is not one of them! Have you ever read his book on prayer.

I've never really found any point that I disagree with Hagin on. I've had some questions, but I've always considered him to be right on.

That would be a different thread...

You need to go back and read what I wrote. the central issue is not what people call Hagin. the central issue is whether or not there is ever an appropriate time to call a man Father rather than father. This is a distinction that is clearly made in the New Testament.

Zzub goes back and reads what you said... time passes...

Jesus instructed us in Matthew 23:9 that we should not call any man upon the earth Father. So why do so many Christians call earthly men Father?
I'm not pointing fingers, but I must give a couple of examples to put this into context. Many WOFers call Kenneth Hagin, Dad Hagin, Catholics refer to their priests as Father, Episcopalians also refer to their priest as Father and many Christians refer to their spiritual mentors as Father. In light of Jesus' very straight forward instruction, I don't understand Christians compulsion to call an earthily man their Father, other than possibly their biological Father, although Jesus made no exception for this either.

That is what you wrote. And now you try and tell me the central issue of your above post is NOT who people call Father? I am trying to follow your posts and your train of thread, but this is not making it easy.

Oh you mean not to call another Father, instead of father?

This distinction is NOT in your original post. It also is not in the original Greek... which knows no capital letters. There is no "Spirit" or "spirit" division or "Father", "father", etc.

Your solution to this issue must be more than capital letters!

Maybe and maybe not. It depends whether or not I tell you what is really on my mind. Of course it make no difference if the person doing the examination either can't or won't correctly read what you write.

Firstly, if you are not telling me what is on your mind, but posting something different from what you think, then don't accuse anyone of misunderstanding you!

Secondly, I am trying to follow your argument but as you can see above your OP does not match what you are now saying.

No, what I meant what I said. Mind reading is not a gift of the spirit. You should give it up as you aren't very good at it.

Not sure why you are being sarcastic here as I am truly trying to follow your argument and learn from you. Maybe you should read all the posts above about love.

It tells me a lot about you and other on this board as well, most of which I would really rather not have known.

Not sure why you are being sarcastic here as I am truly trying to follow your argument and learn from you. Maybe you should read all the posts above about love.

You haven't convinced me as you have missed many of my points and I believe that you have miss read the spirit in which I started this thread. Although I have invited honest discourse on this thread's subject, I don't recall inviting you to judge me or to attack me.

I don't recall judging or attacking you. If you make a point that is not backed up from the Bible, don't get all huffy if people are just discussing your point.

I'm blessed going in and going out, but is has noting to do with you Sir.

I'll just have my blessing back then, no offense intended.
|ZZ|

 

[PastorMike]

Mike,

(Sorry to edit out the rest of your post Zzub it is too long to quote it all)

What Jesus is teaching is do not make an idol of a man, and do not let another man take the place of your personal intimacy with God.

This is why the Catholic church on the whole are disobeying this verse: they treat their priest, their father, as someone who approaches God on their behalf.

This is why I am not disobeying this verse. Pastor Richard Smith is my father. I owe my ministry to that man. But, I owe my salvation to the Lord. I know God is my Father, and I know in whom I believe. I would never dream of asking that man to do my spiritual walk for me.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

This is what I was trying to get at myself Zzubby...in my earlier post I was referring to those who are religious leaders who are trying to take that place in our lives...

I have no problem with spiritual fathers but I have a problem with someone who has no imput in my life demanding to be called father and trying to usurp a position that doesn't belong to him or he that hasn't earned...

God bless, Mike...

BTW PC thank for the compliment...Mike.

 

[KingZzub]

This is what I was trying to get at myself Zzubby...in my earlier post I was referring to those who are religious leaders who are trying to take that place in our lives...

I have no problem with spiritual fathers but I have a problem with someone who has no imput in my life demanding to be called father and trying to usurp a position that doesn't belong to him or he that hasn't earned...

God bless, Mike...

BTW PC thank for the compliment...Mike.

Amen to all of that...

Especially the thanks to PC for the compliment...

 

[Deborah72]

Even if Jesus said not to?

I called my natural dad, "Dad".

What did you call your natural father?

 

[God_Owned]

I agree with Zzub--I honestly don't believe that you are WOF. If you were--You wouldn't be trying to cause drama and strife. Which you are doing

I guessed I missed it. I didn't see where Zzub said I wasn't WOF, as if it mattered what Zzub thinks of me. So you are now accusing me of not being WOF and accusing Zzub of accusing me of not being WOF. You are also accusing me of bringing strife and drama. You sure do a lot of accusing for a Christian. Just to let you know, I was WOF before you were in you mother's womb. That you, your friends and I aren't hitting it off means nothing other tan we aren't hitting it off. I'm not the one who has initiated attack after attack. I was simply making inquiry and provoking a discussion regarding a verse in the Bible. You took it as a personal attack on your relationship with Hagin and responded accordingly. Your friends came to you aid like a bunch of message board muggers. The biggest problem is that you never bothered to get to know me. You were only interested in attacking me. You've not extended a singe ounce of Jesus' love. All you've offered me is you silly and erroneous judgments. It is obvious that you are going to take every opportunity to try to discredit me. Mostly I see you as a very emotional immature little girl.

Good question and discussion though--Nice little plot to make it seem like you are all down with the Word and such.

My inquiry was genuine. You should be a prosecutor.

I'm not buy'n it. Every one here that I have met in WOF has been awesome examples about what living for the Word is like, they have testamonies representing their faith and thought life--Just by chatting with them, I can see what they put into themselves daily. I heard Zzub preaching!! The dude rocks!! He hears from God! My arm was healed just by listening to him laying hands on someone else!!

I guess that I'm just not up to your personal standards. Good thing for me that you're not my judge. I would hardly feel comfortable telling you anything more about myself considering how you attacked me over a single inquiry.

Hisgirl is a total blessing to me! She has taken me under her wing like another daughter, giving me godly advice and correcting me where I need it. Her friendship and fellowship is something that I am grateful for because she lifts me up with her words--Because that's what comes out of her mouth--The Word.

The Lord is My Banner lives for God and it is evident. She has blessed me more than she knows! She made a thread a while back that I took the wrong way, and when she saw my reponse, she totally gave me a big ol' hug, and giving me blessings while she was at it! Apologizing if she implied something the wrong way!

ChiliFrankPlate is a awesome man of God who has deep revelation! You see his threads and you can't help but just be blessed! He's mah buddy! And I'm sure we'll get to meet very soon in April and we'll come back to CF all excited about how we got blessed and what not!

PreacherMike--This dude can preach. He's an awesome Irishman who knows the Word! You hear him or read what he has to say and it'll feed your spirit man!! He's a blessing just by posting his replies because he cares about us!

RiverPastor is sooo down to earth it rocks! This man of God posts things that will renew our minds through the Word, and he feeds us meat with the Word. His experiences within his life are a blessing, because he's real and he doesn't front.

J4Jesus--Now don't even get me STARTED on this chick!! Have you read her stuff?? *** this woman has awesome seed thoughts!! The stuff she posts blesses me EVERY SINGLE TIME!! Her revelation on the word is refreshing and like a breath of fresh air!! Read her stuff--And you'll learn a thing or two.

Mark2010 is an awesome man of God who is my great friend. If you take the time to get to know him, he'll bless you with his words! He will take the time out of his day to give you godly advice and just BE a friend! His friendship is worth more than words! This dude is BLESSED! Just sending him PM's is a blessing!

There are countless others here that I have not mentioned with their own paragraph, lolz. victoryword, littlerocketboy, Debtfree, Deborah72, etc....

You sir--Are a fake. I can already tell and all I did was write about everyone else. If you were a real WOF--You wouldn't be trying to cause drama Besides, someone who walks in love wouldn't cause drama and strife within the body.

Again with the accusations. A fake what? You can tell nothing. I've not tried to cause any drama or strife. As a matter of fact, little of this would have happened if you hadn't attacked me initially. I guess you don't see attacking and accusing others as causing strife. I will address your silly comparisons latter in this writing.

One more thing--I apologize for acting crazy on you earlier. I could've been nicer, but I wasn't--And for that, I apologize. That was not representing excellence and that did not represent the love of God on the inside of me. I totally apologize, ask that you forgive me, and I'll be nicer.

I forgive you, but you are wrongf about me. But at least you have admittted to acting crazy. Now will youplease stop acting crazxy?

But now that you've been exposed, I'm kinda wondering what you'll say next

Well now you know what I said next. Like I said I was reading Hagin before you were in your mother's womb and have been exceedingly blessed through his ministry.

Now lets let the Word of God expose you.

The word says....

2 Corinthians 10:12 Not that we [have the audacity to] venture to class or [even to] compare ourselves with some who exalt and furnish testimonials for themselves! However, when they measure themselves with themselves and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding and behave unwisely.

You have continually compared me to others in you post. You also tried to exalt your self and you friends by furnishing testimonies of yourselves. You measure yourselves among yourselves and have compare yourselves with one another. The Bible says that people who do this are without understanding and behave unwisely. Gregory Dickow once said, "There is never a Godly reason to compare people to one another?" So I recon that you've not been acting in a Godly manner. Gregory is submitted to Kenneth Copeland.

Now I offer you my friendship and hope that you repent of doing evil to me and accept my offer of friendship. It's up to you.

 

[God_Owned]

Here is my question:

How can the New Testament make a distinction between father and Father when New Testament Greek has no capital letters?

Please explain that to me, Godsown, I am interested in your answer.

Think upper case and lower case.

 

[God_Owned]

Not true: my point is that not every command in the Word of God is to be taken by a believer. Some are specific to individuals, some are specific to groups of people. That is not irrelevant to this post and appropriate exegesis of Matthew 23 must identify the intended audience of Jesus' comment.

I know what you meant and it is irrelevant to the verse we are discussing.

Yes, but Dad Hagin is not one of them! Have you ever read his book on prayer.

Again you've completely missed the point. I was referring to cult leaders who try to exercise control and intercede in others lives.

Zzub goes back and reads what you said... time passes...

That is what you wrote. And now you try and tell me the central issue of your above post is NOT who people call Father? I am trying to follow your posts and your train of thread, but this is not making it easy.

The first sentence is the thesis statement. If you wanted to understand you would. Go ask God for wisdom and maybe it will clear things up for you.

This distinction is NOT in your original post. It also is not in the original Greek... which knows no capital letters. There is no "Spirit" or "spirit" division or "Father", "father", etc.

Different nuances and other distinctions are captured in translation by using the rulers of grammar of the gaining translation. In this example, some of the nuances/distinctions that the translators were capturing are expressed in upper and lower case in the gaining English translation. I've heard Copeland speak to this and draw the same distinctions. If you don't accept this then we have don't have a common acceptance of the facts necessary to discuss this.

Firstly, if you are not telling me what is on your mind, but posting something different from what you think, then don't accuse anyone of misunderstanding you!

Did I say that I wasn't posting what is on my mind?

Not sure why you are being sarcastic here as I am truly trying to follow your argument and learn from you. Maybe you should read all the posts above about love.

I have a bit of an edge on me when answering your questions because I think that you are, in some instance, just trying to belabor a point for my benefit.

I don't recall judging or attacking you.

I understand that turmeric does wonders for memory. lol On a serious note, maybe you should confess that you have the mind of Christ a little more.

If you make a point that is not backed up from the Bible, don't get all huffy if people are just discussing your point.

The discussion from you and your friends are all interlaces with attacks, underhanded remarks and personal judgments.

I laid a reasonable foundation for this conversation

I'll just have my blessing back then, no offense intended.

Please do take your blessing back because I'm not even sure that you and I would agree what a blessing is.

No, if you want to cease with the patronizing attitude, I will also offer you my hand in friendship. Please take it.

 

[God_Owned]

This is what I was trying to get at myself Zzubby...in my earlier post I was referring to those who are religious leaders who are trying to take that place in our lives...

I have no problem with spiritual fathers but I have a problem with someone who has no imput in my life demanding to be called father and trying to usurp a position that doesn't belong to him or he that hasn't earned...

God bless, Mike...

BTW PC thank for the compliment...Mike.

I probably agree with you. I need to meditate a little more on this.

Thanks Mike!

 

[God_Owned]

I called my natural dad, "Dad".

What did you call your natural father?

I never knew my biological Dad and my adopted dad was a homosexual pedophile and I was his only son. What do you think that I should've called him?

 

[KingZzub]

I know what you meant and it is irrelevant to the verse we are discussing.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

Again you've completely missed the point. I was referring to cult leaders who try to exercise control and intercede in others lives.

Could you help us then by actually saying what you mean? Your original post referenced Dad Hagin and Catholic priests... not cult leaders...

The first sentence is the thesis statement. If you wanted to understand you would. Go ask God for wisdom and maybe it will clear things up for you.

I am not about to ask God for revelation on your post. I asked you for help to understand and you were just rude. I have enough revelation from God in the Word of God and in good preaching to sift the gold from the mud in your postings.

Different nuances and other distinctions are captured in translation by using the rulers of grammar of the gaining translation. In this example, some of the nuances/distinctions that the translators were capturing are expressed in upper and lower case in the gaining English translation. I've heard Copeland speak to this and draw the same distinctions. If you don't accept this then we have don't have a common acceptance of the facts necessary to discuss this.

There is no upper and lower case in the New Testament Greek. I have never heard Kenneth Copeland say that there is - but if he says there is then he is wrong. That is simple.

Did I say that I wasn't posting what is on my mind?

You told me that I could not understand what you were thinking from what you were posting. What am I supposed to infer from that?

I have a bit of an edge on me when answering your questions because I think that you are, in some instance, just trying to belabor a point for my benefit.

Go read the passages you posted on love then.

I understand that turmeric does wonders for memory. lol On a serious note, maybe you should confess that you have the mind of Christ a little more.

I think you should confess you have the fruit of the spirit a little more!

The discussion from you and your friends are all interlaces with attacks, underhanded remarks and personal judgments.

Paranoia. An interesting problem.

I laid a reasonable foundation for this conversation

No, lots of people misunderstood you. You didn't express yourself well - no shame in that. The shame is that you are being rude to all manner of people who are just looking for a clarification.

Please do take your blessing back because I'm not even sure that you and I would agree what a blessing is.
No, if you want to cease with the patronizing attitude, I will also offer you my hand in friendship. Please take it.

You are the condescending one. "I have been reading Hagin since you were a baby" - wow! try living it, then I would be impressed with you.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

 

[KingZzub]

I never knew my biological Dad and my adopted dad was a homosexual pedophile and I was his only son. What do you think that I should've called him?

Dad.

 

[God_Owned]

Dad.

Tell you what, you call him Dad that is if you want to acknowledge a homosexual pedophile as your God. I see that you really are a man of little understanding.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Godown,
brother I am sorry about the pain you have suffered.

There is an area here at CF where you might find helpful responses on that issue if ever you felt the need. Maybe you don't, but it seemed right to let you know it's there.

Forgive me for butting in off-topic, but how can I ignore what you just told us?

God bless you, love Sue

 

[God_Owned]

Could you help us then by actually saying what you mean? Your original post referenced Dad Hagin and Catholic priests... not cult leaders...

I don't think I'll ever be able to help you, but Jesus is still your answer.

I am not about to ask God for revelation on your post. I asked you for help to understand and you were just rude. I have enough revelation from God in the Word of God and in good preaching to sift the gold from the mud in your postings.

Wow, a man who needs no more revelation from God. I've always wanted to meet someone with perfect knowledge like you. Just what is it like being the wonder that you think you are. I'll bet it's real tough getting over yourself isn't it?

As far my mud goes, the gold of God's wisdom and knowledge is in this pile of mud. I know that this is true because the Word has said that it is true.

There is no upper and lower case in the New Testament Greek. I have never heard Kenneth Copeland say that there is - but if he says there is then he is wrong. That is simple.

Well I guess that you've not heard all of what Copeland has had to say. Let me see? Should I think that a Zzub is wrong or should I think that a wonderful man of God like Copeland wrong. Can you guess which way I'll go here.

You told me that I could not understand what you were thinking from what you were posting. What am I supposed to infer from that?

I care not for what you infer.

Paranoia. An interesting problem.

Psychobabble is an old game. The devil uses it all the time.

No, lots of people misunderstood you. You didn't express yourself well - no shame in that. The shame is that you are being rude to all manner of people who are just looking for a clarification.

You and your friends are people who build yourselves up by tearing at others who've done you no harm. PreacheChick correctly admitted to acting crazy. I guess you missed that. I find it interesting that you and PreacherChich presume to speak for lots of people. I'm hardly rude, just of sharp wit, kind of like the Word is sharp. I'll prefer to see myself as God sees me. This is what is most telling about you and your friends. If you don't like someone, you try to get them to see themselves in a way that is not consistent with how God sees them. You try to get them to see themselves like the devil sees them. You will have to throw your bait into another pond because I' not taking your offering of accusations, underhanded remarks, patronizing attitude and name calling.

You are the condescending one. "I have been reading Hagin since you were a baby" - wow! try living it, then I would be impressed with you.

This is a statement of fact. Again, you should get the money back that you spent on mind reading lessons because you aren't any good at it.

 

[God_Owned]

Godown,
brother I am sorry about the pain you have suffered.

There is an area here at CF where you might find helpful responses on that issue if ever you felt the need. Maybe you don't, but it seemed right to let you know it's there.

Forgive me for butting in off-topic, but how can I ignore what you just told us?

God bless you, love Sue

Thank you for your concern, but I'm not asking for your sympathy. God has already given me my answer in this area. I was just answering a question in a straight forward manner.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Then I'm pleased to hear it brother.

 

[God_Owned]

Then I'm pleased to hear it brother.

I'm pleased that you're pleased.

 

[KingZzub]

Tell you what, you call him Dad that is if you want to acknowledge a homosexual pedophile as your God. I see that you really are a man of little understanding.

God bless you.

 

[God_Owned]

God bless you.

Thank you! He already has!

 

[Preacherchick99]

Wow Godown, you're still carrying baggage from your past I really do feel for you--but he is still your earthly father even if he was a homosexual pedafile.

I'd share my testamony with you but honestly, I just think you'd mock me

I just wanna add one thing though--After someone admits to their mistake, apologizes, and repents--You don't accept their apology by pulling out scripture proving them wrong--I was really sincere in my apology and you just outright acted rude to me when all you've been "trying" to do in the first place was be my friend supposedly......Now, that doesn't sound very genuine to me. It sounds like you were being spiteful

If you are in fact my elder, then you should have maturity and wisdom right? Well--Your actions proved ya wrong buddy, dude--Well, what do you want me to call you? Old dude? Is that better? lolz

I am still not convinced that you are Word of Faith. When you do post, it has no revelation, no scriptural understanding, no wisdom, not anything......Yeah maybe you've been reading KC and KH since I was in the womb--But just because you hear it and see it doesn't make you a doer of the Word as well.

You know I just need to shut my mouth because I know I'll say more than what I need to. I just pray in Jesus Name that you'll get a clear revelation and understanding of God's word and God will speak to you about things that you need to know when it comes to His infallable word. I pray that you get godly wisdom and the right ppl come into your life and the wrong ppl removed!

Maybe that's what we are here for everyone--To minister to Godown! Now I speak that you recieve what we have to say in Jesus Name! And since I have spoken that word, I say that it plants seed and does not fall lifeless to the ground! Because the Word of God does not return void