Ananias and Sapphira, two questions

[bling]

God is also Justice .. He is glorified in His justice as well as Love and mercy

There is no problem being 100% just and 100% merciful?

 

[Robin Mauro]

Ananias and Sapphira planned to trick the Church, holding on to money and fell down dead.

1. Why weren't they given a chance to repent?

2. Could this happen to a Christian today?

I think God put that story in the New Testament to remind us that God is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and that the fear of the Lord is still with us.
"Work out your slavation with fear and trembling."
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." It keeps us on the right path.
And what we don't know from this story is where they went after death. They may very well be with God now. Look at Solomon and how he blew it at the end of his life.
This life is but a moment. It is eternity that ultimately matters.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God struck them dead without a chance to repent.

BEFORE they came in and continued claiming they had given all, they could have repented.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I believe we can only be saved from God's wrath if we persist to the end.

If (as expected, positively) "persist" is the same meaning as "endure", as Yahweh says WHOEVER ENDURES TO THE END

*************************** w i l l ...... b e

saved....

yes.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I believe he could if he hadn't taken his life and returned to the apostles. Would they have turned him away? Would Christ have turned him away? The story of Judas is very tragic.

Did Yahuweh Sovereign Creator ever in His Word make an error Himself, a mistake ?

No.

So when He Directed in His Word long before Yahshua Messiah was born,
that
the betrayer would perish ,

this could not be changed by anyone.

WHO is the story of the betrayer "tragic" for ?

Is it more tragic TODAY for those who betray, deny, or simply do not believe in Jesus, so they perish as Judas the betrayer did ?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

BEFORE they came in and continued claiming they had given all, they could have repented.

In most cases in the Old Testament, when dealing with Israel, the punishment is a disciplinary action during which God's people can turn to him and pray. If they had repented, then God would have relented. Not so in this case. God didn't punish Ananias and Sapphira in order to correct them and bring them to repentance. He did it to get rid of them, and nothing more. That much is plain.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In most cases in the Old Testament, when dealing with Israel, the punishment is a disciplinary action during which God's people can turn to him and pray. If they had repented, then God would have relented. Not so in this case. God didn't punish Ananias and Sapphira in order to correct them and bring them to repentance. He did it to get rid of them, and nothing more. That much is plain.

Just like in dealing with Israel, when Israel DID NOT repent, they suffered.

If they repented, they usually did not suffer as much (they may still have been chastised at least, and MANY TIMES MANY DIED) .....

Ananias and Sapphira, just like Israel, COULD HAVE repented, but did not - their sin was a sin that lead to <physical> death (at least). Their choice. Their free will. Their destruction. (physically).

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I believe we can only be saved from God's wrath if we persist to the end.

Ananias and Sapphira were not saved from God's wrath. That is my only point. I don't dispute what you just said.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Ananias and Sapphira, just like Israel, COULD HAVE repented, but did not

Then they were not saved. God's wrath against them was final.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Ananias and Sapphira were not saved from God's wrath. That is my only point. I don't dispute what you just said.

Then they were not saved. God's wrath against them was final.

hmmmm....... you think physical death is final ? ? ?

That is not what Scripture says, for those resurrected with Jesus to eternal life,
nor for those condemned for their unbelief, resurrected to be destroyed after Judgment Day.

 

[public hermit]

Ananias and Sapphira planned to trick the Church, holding on to money and fell down dead.

1. Why weren't they given a chance to repent?

2. Could this happen to a Christian today?

One possibility: What happened to them is an example of what we all will experience. They didn't die because of that particular sin. They died because of sin. The fact that they died on the spot is really no different then the fact we will all die on the spot. The distance between sin and the death that sin leads to is a mirage. No matter when we die, it's because of sin. Sin leads to death.

As has been mentioned, this has nothing to do with their status before God as Christains. They were already confessing members of the community, presumably. Their death was simply a wide-awake reminder that we will all die on account of sin. The resurrection, on the other hand, is solely on account of Christ.

1. They were saved by grace, not repentance.

2. It happens to all of us. We all die on the spot in the same day that we sin.

 

[zoidar]

Did Yahuweh Sovereign Creator ever in His Word make an error Himself, a mistake ?

No.

So when He Directed in His Word long before Yahshua Messiah was born,
that
the betrayer would perish ,

this could not be changed by anyone.

WHO is the story of the betrayer "tragic" for ?

Is it more tragic TODAY for those who betray, deny, or simply do not believe in Jesus, so they perish as Judas the betrayer did ?

I think Judas case was extra tragic since he didn't think he could be forgiven and took his own life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think Judas case was extra tragic since he didn't think he could be forgiven and took his own life.

Many people think , in error, that they can be forgiven, and are resurrected to destruction.

Judas was right - he could not be forgiven. This is in harmony with all Scripture ....

Even if he did not take his own life, he would have most likely been most miserable, and died, all along knowing he was lost, condemned, with no hope.

 

[zoidar]

Judas was right - he could not be forgiven. This is in harmony with all Scripture ....

You need to back up that statement with scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You need to back up that statement with scripture.

Why? There is no place in Scripture that states that Judas could be forgiven, remembering that Yahuweh's Word States Clearly , hundreds of years before the one who betrayed Jesus was born,
that he would be lost.

It is twisting God's Plan and Purpose and Scripture to try to make it possible to do something God Says cannot happen, or will not happen.

 

[zoidar]

Why? There is no place in Scripture that states that Judas could be forgiven, remembering that Yahuweh's Word States Clearly , hundreds of years before the one who betrayed Jesus was born,
that he would be lost.

It is twisting God's Plan and Purpose and Scripture to try to make it possible to do something God Says cannot happen, or will not happen.

There is no place in scripture that says he couldn't. And Jesus says there is only one sin that can't be forgiven. God's foreknowlege doesn't cancel out what's possible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There is no place in scripture that says he couldn't. And Jesus says there is only one sin that can't be forgiven. God's foreknowlege doesn't cancel out what's possible.

EVERYTHING GOD SAYS WILL HAPPEN, HAPPENED OR WILL HAPPEN.

God's Word of Jesus being born , the savior of the world,
just as much as
God's Word of the betrayer betraying Jesus, being lost.

NO ONE could nor can ever change either Word.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(God cannot contradict Himself, so there is not ever, not in any way, an option for the betrayer,

without breaking God's Word/ contradicting Himself then, which is not possible)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God's foreknowlege doesn't cancel out what's possible.

?? God's "foreknowledge" of what happens IS HE KNOWS PERFECTLY WHAT HAPPENs. (not changeable)

Not a theory. Not options.

His knowledge is PERFECT, COMPLETE< no iniquity and no contradiction.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And Jesus says there is only one sin that can't be forgiven.

And yet there are billions of people NOT FORGIVEN..... hmmm..... why ?
(at least two-thirds of mankind, maybe more, as written in the Apocalypse) (Revelation from Yahuweh to John the Apostle)