Ananias and Sapphira, two questions

[zoidar]

I had kind of a similar experience. In short, when I asked God why my overtly successful Jewish best friend wouldn't discuss God/Christ, God said he was too comfortable. So I prayed God would make Him uncomfortable. For the next year, the golden boy who couldn't lose went thru failure after failure after failure. It did make him open to discussing things, for a while at least.

Keep praying for your friend!

 

[zoidar]

?
Does the Bible make it clear about anyone today ?

Is there any description of "true believers" in Scripture to go by ?

You can probably discern a few true believers, like Paul and Peter.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You can probably discern a few true believers, like Paul and Peter.

In the oppressive country of China, is the ONLY place I have heard or read about, that the unbelievers (neighbors, friends, family, co-workers)
KNOW the true believers by the lives they live. Nowhere else so far, except for a sparse few examples.

 

[zoidar]

In the oppressive country of China, is the ONLY place I have heard or read about, that the unbelievers (neighbors, friends, family, co-workers)
KNOW the true believers by the lives they live. Nowhere else so far, except for a sparse few examples.

We have to start with ourselves. It's easy to focus on the negativities.

 

[rnmomof7]

Can God be Love and not show mercy?

God is also Justice .. He is glorified in His justice as well as Love and mercy

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Ananias and Sapphira planned to trick the Church, holding on to money and fell down dead.

1. Why weren't they given a chance to repent?

2. Could this happen to a Christian today?

The fact that Ananias and Sapphira died for their sin is not necessarily an indication that they were not saved. God was establishing His church and doing so with acts of Judgement to the wrongdoers. We see this as it pertains to the Lord's Supper as well.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The fact that Ananias and Sapphira died for their sin is not necessarily an indication that they were not saved. God was establishing His church and doing so with acts of Judgement to the wrongdoers. We see this as it pertains to the Lord's Supper as well.

Was this similar* to His Preventing Moses from Entering the Promised Land ?
Obviously Moses is still His, and is a great example of Faith and Obedience still.

* In terms of not being destroyed / unsaved. Simply a temporal judgment, with unknown repercussions in the life to come....

 

[Blade]

They agreed on this before they even went in. Short.. God has not changed. What we think unless an apostle is there to speak it never happens anymore? If a man or woman of God..directed by the holy Spirit were to question someone like this? Yeah.. it does still happen. Like with the gifts.. if people can't see them hear about them on TV then.. they are dead. But.. God has not changed. Sin... has a price.. saved or not.. in this world..

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Was this similar* to His Preventing Moses from Entering the Promised Land ?
Obviously Moses is still His, and is a great example of Faith and Obedience still.

* In terms of not being destroyed / unsaved. Simply a temporal judgment, with unknown repercussions in the life to come....

I believe it would be the same...that is God demonstrating His holiness and righteous requirements. Though we miss the mark it is not to be taken lightly. Great OT example!

 

[dqhall]

Ananias and Sapphira planned to trick the Church, holding on to money and fell down dead.

1. Why weren't they given a chance to repent?

2. Could this happen to a Christian today?

Judas Iscariot embezzled funds and perished. His betrayal of Jesus was worse than the theft of offerings. He was sorry for what he had done, but could not be saved.

 

[zoidar]

Judas Iscariot embezzled funds and perished. His betrayal of Jesus was worse than the theft of offerings. He was sorry for what he had done, but could not be saved.

I believe he could if he hadn't taken his life and returned to the apostles. Would they have turned him away? Would Christ have turned him away? The story of Judas is very tragic.

 

[Norbert L]

I don't think that this type of scenario would happen today, because our contemporary church does not have the same intensity of the power of the Holy Spirit the early church in Peter's time had. Too much corruption, lack of holiness, and divisions into independent factions in it.

There are over 2 billion people that are broadly classified as Christian today. Now even if we reduce that number to something like 100 million, chances are stuff like this happens, we just don't see it in our little bubbles of living day to day.

Albeit the following is a far more acceptable witness to our modern ears because it's about His mercy, nevertheless there are numerous other things that fly under the radar when God does something. Take that the bank.

At the 5 minute mark is when the man starts giving his testimony:

 

[com7fy8]

2. Could this happen to a Christian today?

The Bible isn't really clear if they were true believers or not.

I believe they were not, plus I trust God to make sure I do not lie to Him, like they did. I would say they were committed to that betrayal and not considering Peter to be legitimate. And that had a lot to do with how they could die for doing that. Betraying trust is a work of hate, not of a child of God's love.

And my opinion is if God changes a person to become a child of God, now the person is not able to so fully betray the Holy Spirit and God's people. And yet . . . I now think of this > Peter betrayed the Holy Spirit and the Gentile-background Christians > Galatians 2:11-13 < in my opinion; yet, God had mercy on him . . . and corrected him.

But there is a moral lesson for me > that if they were lying to God by lying to God's servant, this goes for my relating with any child of God. If I knowingly lie to any child of God, I am lying to Jesus. What I do to the least of Christ's I am doing to Him, and lying to the Holy Spirit. So, I am very prayerfully careful what I say to people who are my Christian leaders and my brothers and sisters.

Of course, I am not required to tell people every thing about me, but do not lie to them. Be prayerful about if and how God wants me to trust each person.

So, I think it helps to not only judge them, but see how it applies to me.

 

[zoidar]

I believe they were not, plus I trust God to make sure I do not lie to Him, like they did. I would say they were committed to that betrayal and not considering Peter to be legitimate. And that had a lot to do with how they could die for doing that. Betraying trust is a work of hate, not of a child of God's love.

And my opinion is if God changes a person to become a child of God, now the person is not able to so fully betray the Holy Spirit and God's people. And yet . . . I now think of this > Peter betrayed the Holy Spirit and the Gentile-background Christians > Galatians 2:11-13 < in my opinion; yet, God had mercy on him . . . and corrected him.

But there is a moral lesson for me > that if they were lying to God by lying to God's servant, this goes for my relating with any child of God. If I knowingly lie to any child of God, I am lying to Jesus. What I do to the least of Christ's I am doing to Him, and lying to the Holy Spirit. So, I am very prayerfully careful what I say to people who are my Christian leaders and my brothers and sisters.

Of course, I am not required to tell people every thing about me, but do not lie to them. Be prayerful about if and how God wants me to trust each person.

So, I think it helps to not only judge them, but see how it applies to me.

I think it's way too strong to say Peter betrayed the Holy Spirit. That would in my opinion have big consequences. Sure he was acting poorly, betraying, don't think.

Also Rom 2, There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

 

[dqhall]

I believe he could if he hadn't taken his life and returned to the apostles. Would they have turned him away? Would Christ have turned him away? The story of Judas is very tragic.

I do not think Judas could have repented. He did not give the thirty pieces of silver to the eleven disciples. He gave it to the chief priests. Even if he had given his money to the disciples, he could not have bought salvation with money. Some sins are unforgivable.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I thought you were saying that scripture said he wasn't saved, that's why my reply. We can't know, that's the truth, just like you say.

God struck them dead without a chance to repent. He didn't strike them lame. He didn't strike them blind. He struck them dead, on the spot, not several years later, not that same day, but at the same moment. If that's what it means to be saved from God's wrath, then I hope never to see your idea of Heaven.

 

[Guojing]

Ananias and Sapphira planned to trick the Church, holding on to money and fell down dead.

1. Why weren't they given a chance to repent?

2. Could this happen to a Christian today?

It was still Judaism during early Acts. The Jews were under the Gospel of the Kingdom, meaning the Law must be kept. Lying to the Holy Spirit was a sin punishable by death then.

 

[zoidar]

I do not think Judas could have repented. He did not give the thirty pieces of silver to the eleven disciples. He gave it to the chief priests. Even if he had given his money to the disciples, he could not have bought salvation with money. Some sins are unforgivable.

One sin is unforgivable. If Judas did that I don't know.

 

[zoidar]

God struck them dead without a chance to repent. He didn't strike them lame. He didn't strike them blind. He struck them dead, on the spot, not several years later, not that same day, but at the same moment. If that's what it means to be saved from God's wrath, then I hope never to see your idea of Heaven.

I believe we can only be saved from God's wrath if we persist to the end.

 

[zoidar]

It was still Judaism during early Acts. The Jews were under the Gospel of the Kingdom, meaning the Law must be kept. Lying to the Holy Spirit was a sin punishable by death then.

Interesting view! I don't agree, but thanks for moving my braincells around.