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An Interesting View on Paganism

Smilin

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SqueezetheShaman said:
Oh NO! not at all, let the squeezing comence!
:hug: :hug: :hug: ,,, errr Is your husband going to shoot me
now..or later? lol

while we are discussing it, what would be the proper definition in your opinion?
The term originates from early Christians to 'label'
those of other religions they encountered as they
sought to convert (conquer) the world. For example,
the early settlers of North America termed the Native
population..Pagan. Be warned that to call a traditional
Native American a Pagan is an insult! However,
given that I associate with many who label themselves
such, I feel honored when someone terms me Pagan
out of ignorance.

As far as the word goes, it's simply a label with no
correct definition.

Anyone care to challenge me?:p
 
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Havoc

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Carico said:
Between the two of us, I'm the one who admits I'm a sinner. You're still trying to pretend you aren't a sinner. Who's trying to look superior?
You admit that you're exactly what you believe you are... go figure.

I don't believe in Sin so I don't call myself a sinner, and somehow that makes me a pretender who's trying to look superior..... Ohhhhhhkaaaaaaay.

Anyone so moved by the love of Christ so evident in Carico that they want to become a Christian yet? No? Keep it coming Carico, you're better than free beer for making converts to Paganism.
 
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Mylinkay Asdara

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I use Pagan for myself just because it's a term people understand and it's not as charged as witch (although it almost is now a days lol). Honestly I don't think that a lot of solitaries like myself can be lumped into any one group accurately, so we may as well use and inaccurate term eh? :)
 
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Havoc

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Mylinkay:

Perhaps the word "Eclectic" would be more appropriate in your case? Just a thought.

Oh and BTW we reconstructionists hold you eclectics in the highest degree of disdain for not embracing absolute truth. Be warned you are headed for T'ir Nan Og!!!

MphMff!! Nurksh!!!

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!

Sorry, I really tried to be a bigotted fundie but it's just not in me. ;)
 
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I need to chime in here because I was looking up some etymology earlier. The basis for the word Pagan is Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district.
This precedes pagan meaning religion other than Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
If one gets very detailed – several definitions of pagan include a tendency towards polytheism. Thus not all witches are Wiccan, not all Wiccans are witches and not all of either are pagan if one equates polytheism.

ALW
 
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Smilin

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Mylinkay Asdara said:
I use Pagan for myself just because it's a term people understand and it's not as charged as witch :)
I've kind of adapted " Heathen Pagan Heretic Deist
with a touch of Atheism for flavor....

That covers everyone I think...

Feel free to add any creative touches....

And I shall see you both on the other side..
We'll have great laughs over many things...
 
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Smilin

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Mylinkay Asdara said:
Honestly I don't think that a lot of solitaries like myself can be lumped into any one group accurately, so we may as well use and inaccurate term eh? :)
Why should we be lumped into groups and 'categorized'?

Just a thought.
 
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Arikay

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Yeah, terms can get quite odd at times.

As you said, the basic definition of Pagan is someone who is not christian, Muslim or Jew. Which means anyone thats not one of those is a "pagan."

Then there is the definition that is often used which means the ancient polytheistic religions of europe, often ones that the europeans tried to convert.

Then there is the definition of Neo Pagan (often gets shortend to pagan) that means one of the new religions based on the ancient european religions. Often Druid, or wiccan (but there are many many sub groups), these religions can be polytheistic, monotheistic, or atheistic.

Its all confusing and stuff. :)

ALW said:
I need to chime in here because I was looking up some etymology earlier. The basis for the word Pagan is Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district.
This precedes pagan meaning religion other than Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
If one gets very detailed – several definitions of pagan include a tendency towards polytheism. Thus not all witches are Wiccan, not all Wiccans are witches and not all of either are pagan if one equates polytheism.

ALW
 
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Havoc

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Carico said:
Because none of is from Mars or Jupiter. We're all human and no better.
I don't know Carico. There are some people, who's name I hesitate to mention, who really do appear to be from another planet. Might have something to do with claiming to have absolute truth with no way to substantiate it.
 
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Havoc

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Here is an exerpt of a summary of an article I wrote some time ago on the subject. Be forewarned I am writing from a biased perspective here so I don't expect everyone, or anyone, to agree with me.


I would like to offer some background to those who may not have a good idea of Paganism in general. Please keep in mind that there is NO such thing as what Pagans believe, Paganism is an incredibly diverse grouping of religious thought. The only thing you really can do is point to commonalities and differences in order to gain an understanding of what drives the Pagan heart.

The word Pagan derives from the Latin word paganus which means literally, country dweller. In the early history of the Christian Church during the time of Constantine, the legislated conversion of people to the new religion took place first in the cities where it was easier to enforce. The country folk retained their chosen faith much longer, thus the word for country folk became synonymous with non-Christian.

The Generally accepted Tree of Modern Paganism includes many religions. These religions are generally differentiated as "Old Pagan" and "Neo-Pagan".

The "Old Pagan" branch is those religions for whom there ins an unbroken tradition stretching back into history. Examples of these would be Native NAmerican Aboriginal, Hinduism, and African Shamanism. The "Neo-Pagan" branch is those religions recently created, or reconstructed after having been lost. Examples of these would be Gardnerian Wicca, Druidism, Odinism, and Celtic Reconstructionism.

There are three relatively common philosophies which tend to define Pagan religious thought. Most Pagan faiths contain some measure of these three ideas, although some may emphasise one over the others.


1) Pantheism
pantheism
\Pan"the*ism\, n. [Pan- + theism.] The doctrine that the universe, taken or conceived of as a whole, is God; the doctrine that there is no God but the combined force and laws which are manifested in the existing universe; cosmotheism.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc
Pantheism is the idea that the Divine within all things, that each object, creature, and person together contains a portion of that which altogether makes up the divine. This is one of the factors which contributes to the idea of “earth-based” religions. Since the Divine is in every object and creature, since the Earth herself is divine, it behooves us to take special care of the Earth.


2) Polytheism
polytheism
\Pol"y*the*ism\, n. [Poly- + Gr. ? cf. F. polyth['e]isme.] The doctrine of, or belief in, a plurality of gods
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc
Polytheism is the idea that more than one god exists. Most Pagan faiths believe in at least two distinct deities, God and Goddess. Some like Celtic and Hindu, believe in hundreds. Almost all believe that Gods and Goddesses outside their own pantheon also exist, either like the Romans, who believe most Gods and Goddesses of other religions were just renamed Roman Gods and Goddesses, or like ancient Europeans who believed different Gods and Goddesses held sway over different parts of the earth. Polytheism is one of the factors which allows modern Pagans of different faiths to worship together in joy and harmony. Our Gods and Goddesses are not jealous.


3) Animism
animism
\An"i*mism\, n. [Cf. F. animisme, fr. L. anima soul. See Animate.]
2. The belief that inanimate objects and the phenomena of nature are endowed with personal life or a living soul; also, in an extended sense, the belief in the existence of soul or spirit apart from matter.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc
Animism is closely related to Pantheism. Animism teaches that each object, creature, and person is endowed with a living spirit. This combined with Pantheism results in a universe in which each object is both a part of the divine and an entity in its own right.

These three principles are commonly called the “Three Pillars” of Paganism. They are not universal but the vast majority of Pagan Religions contain all three to a greater or lesser degree.

Another very common principle is the idea that “all paths lead to the Divine”. This is not so much a nod to relativism as it is an acknowledgement that the nature of the Divine is not completely knowable by humans, that all religions are simply human interpretation of a concept to large for the human mind to grasp directly. Therefore no religion is the “absolute truth” but rather each is a way of understanding the nature of the Divine in ways our minds can grasp. Since each religion is an interpretation, no one religion is the “truth”, nor is any religion “false”. This leads to a cooperative nature among some very radically different belief systems that would be impossible among the Abramic religions, even among the practically identical Christian sects. Modern Pagans of vastly different belief systems commonly gather to worship and fellowship, emphasising their common principles rather than their differences.
 
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Draco

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I am Wiccan and have been for 8 years. I was Christian before and i did not like being told what i could do and what i could not do. Evereything i did was considered a sin in my town. With Wicca i found a home. If one does not understand Wicca then they should not talk about it. Just because you heard about it from someone else doesn't mean you know anything about it. Read about it and then you can make your opinion.
 
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Volos

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Originally posted by : Carico
I know my religion is a sure thing. If you knew your religion was a sure thing, why in the world wouldn't you want to share that with others? You either don't care enough about others or you do not believe your religion is a sure thing.


Above, in Havoc’s excelant post you find: “Another very common principle is the idea that “all paths lead to the Divine”.”



This ties in with the concept that religion (all religions) are simply man made constructions for the purpose of expressing spiritual ideals. There is NO correct religion just different ways of expressing spirituality. Spirituality is ultimately one’s unique personal relationship with the Gods. Since we all have a unique relationship with the Divine, we all can be on different paths (practicing different religions) and still all be following a true religion.



The divinity you speak of is some vague mist that you cannot define.
the ultimate Godhead is rather abstract but is so by definition.




You don't KNOW who your creator is but you think it must something, just like a child wishing upon a star. But you can't put your finger on it. You blieve in some unnamable energy that affects the powers of men and that is where you put your faith. Hitler, also believed in magic that affected the powers of men. He believed in the occult. Your "religion" is mystical which by its very definition is vague. I can see why you can't share it with others. You don't understand it yourself.
and innumerable Christians believe that their prayers have real world effects. (I believe that prayers have real world effects as well.)




Actually I understand my religion very well.

I believe in the existence of divine beings that are parts or facets of the larger Divine. The God you worship is also one of these facets or personas that he Divine takes on. This is another reason why Pagan’s aren’t to converting people, we already know everyone who worships is worshiping the same divine being.



You're not fallen? Then you must believe you're perfect which is again playing God. You certainly don't belong with the rest of us human beings. Maybe we should be worshipping you. And yes, there is a sure thing. There is a God. You just haven't found Him yet.
Pagan’s do not believe that the physical world is evil or ‘fallen” or corrupt. That is a Judeo Christian concept (and a very strange one too)


The concept of sin is completely foreign to Pagans.



Pagan world view makes the concept of sin (disobedience to specific though terribly imprecise ‘laws’) and SIN (humanity choosing to live separate form God) also very foreign.

SIN is utterly impossible. Pagans generally adopt a panenthiestic (or pantheistic) worldview which means that the world (universe) was not created ex nhilo (out of nothing) but rather that the universe is part of the Divine itself. Note that most do not believe hat the Universe is identical with the Divine but rather a part of it. The Divine transcends the Universe but is still immanent. Since we cannot be separate from the divine (even if we wish it) SIN is impossible.



Lower case sin (breaking the deities laws) is also impossible as there are no laws given by the Divine.



Jesus said "If the world hates you, remember it hated me first."
the world hates nobody.




[/quote] It seems that what you want is people to agree with you in order for you to like them. Your "love" for people has strings attached to it. I'm not going to play your game in order to win your approval. I've tried to show you how to come to God. In my last post I told you what you needed to do. But you're simpy not interested, and you berate me for it. No wonder you haven't received love from God. You bite the hands that try to feed you. [/quote] Your statement indicates that you believe the love your God shows has strings attached. Conditions of belief, of worship and the like are part of your religion not of the nature of your God. Unconditional love means that there are no strings attached, no requirements to fulfill.
 
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radorth

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There are some people, who's name I hesitate to mention, who really do appear to be from another planet. Might have something to do with claiming to have absolute truth with no way to substantiate it.
You were speaking of non-Christian religions or insipid and powerless "Christian" ones I presume. Jesus gave us ways to prove beyond any doubt whether we have contacted God or not. And of course Paul lists nine gifts of the Holy Spirit, none of which you will experience until your mind is truly open.

Rad
 
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Havoc

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radorth said:
You were speaking of non-Christian religions or insipid and powerless "Christian" ones I presume. Jesus gave us ways to prove beyond any doubt whether we have contacted God or not. And of course Paul lists nine gifts of the Holy Spirit, none of which you will experience until your mind is truly open.

Rad
And none of which you can quantify in any reasonable manner. Which is rather convenient since you cannot show what you cannot quantify. These "gifts" are beliefs of yours, not facts. They might be facts one day if you ever manage to show they are what yu calim they are, but I won't hold my breath.



If Jesus gave you ways to prove you have contacted God why is it none of you can seem to do so. Or is this just the typical misuse of the word "proof" when you have nothing even remotely resembling proof.
 
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