An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

[ViaCrucis]

Yes the SDAs supported the temperance movement which was very influential in criminalizing the sales of alcohol.

So it was actually Adventists, not Catholics and others, who helped to institute laws in America which oppressed people unjustly.

That's interesting, ain't it?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Yes the SDAs supported the temperance movement which was very influential in criminalizing the sales of alcohol.

So you admit then that the Adventists cooperated in the forcing of moral legislation against the wishes of Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Jews, and others.

 

[masmpg]

This list if reasons for excommunicating Martin Luther from the catholic church comes from the National Catholic Register. This is not SDA sources. But it is in fact what the SDA denomination believes! If you want to accuse the SDA denomination for this. . . or just call it whatever you want.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/50-reasons-why-martin-luther-was-excommunicated

 

[masmpg]

So it was actually Adventists, not Catholics and others, who helped to institute laws in America which oppressed people unjustly.

That's interesting, ain't it?

-CryptoLutheran

If you consider prohibition oppression then you might want to consider how many people have died from the use and abuse of that most dangerous drug of all! Alcohol has killed more than all illicit drugs combined!

 

[masmpg]

So you admit then that the Adventists cooperated in the forcing of moral legislation against the wishes of Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Jews, and others.

I would not consider this moral legislation, let alone forced. Call it whatever you want to, and now you have something, although conjured up just to throw back at me because I am exposing the bigger threats to Christianity.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If you consider prohibition oppression then you might want to consider how many people have died from the use and abuse of that most dangerous drug of all! Alcohol has killed more than all illicit drugs combined!

That "most dangerous drug" which Christ our God commanded we drink, calling it His very own blood, for the remembrance of Him. Oh, and also, "hoc est" is something Luther believed and teaches in the Small Catechism. That's a freebie.

I'm still waiting on you to name something, since you know what would or wouldn't make Luther "roll in his grave".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would not consider this moral legislation, let alone forced.

Moralists getting an amendment passed to legislate what people can or can't drink under the penalty of law isn't something you'd consider "moral legislation" or "forced"?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Paul Yohannan]

I was almost on the verge of admiring you @masmpg from a sort of semi-Libertarian perspective, but alas, you seem willing to redefine "moral legislation" and "forced" in such a manner as to justify legislative action in support of Adventist doctrine and in opposition to alternative perspectives.

I strongly suspect given the choice you would support Saturday laws and a ban on meat and other foodstuffs also contrary to Adventist moral dogma.

If you consider prohibition oppression then you might want to consider how many people have died from the use and abuse of that most dangerous drug of all! Alcohol has killed more than all illicit drugs combined!

Indeed, and how many people have been killed by cholesterol from meat leading to heart attacks? To be clear, I support meat consumption, but I fear you might support outlawing it based on a similiar false logic.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

That "most dangerous drug" which Christ our God commanded we drink, calling it His very own blood, for the remembrance of Him. Oh, and also, "hoc est" is something Luther believed and teaches in the Small Catechism. That's a freebie.

I'm still waiting on you to name something, since you know what would or wouldn't make Luther "roll in his grave".

-CryptoLutheran

Indeed. I am of the opinion that prohibition was directly contrary to Christian values owing to the "hoc est" consideration. Wesley's argument in favor of unfermented grape juice was ridiculous and one of the few places where I dislike Wesley.

It was also a huge slap in the face to pious Orthodox Christians in the Middle East persecuted for among other reasons alcohol consumption.

 

[mmksparbud]

The following are not from SDA sources:

In Jewish society wine was also mixed with water, and unmixed wine was considered a strong drink. Several Old Testament passages spoke of the difference between wine and strong drink (Deut. 14:26; 29:6). The priests were to avoid BOTH when they went into the tabernacle (Lev.10:8-9). The Talmud (oral traditions of the Jews from about 200 BC to AD 200) includes instructions concerning wine in several chapters. One section (Shabbath 77a) states that wine which does not carry at least 3 parts of water is not wine. It would be considered a strong drink. [vii]
http://www.salembible.org/biblestudies/issues/alcohol/alcohol_3.htm

The 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia (Vol. 12, p. 533) states that in the rabbinic period at least “‘yayin’ [or wine] ‘is to be distinguished from ‘shekar’ [or strong drink]: the former is diluted with water (mazug’); the latter is undiluted (‘yayin hal’).” ln the Talmud, which contains the oral traditions of Judaism from about 200 B.C. to A.D. 200, there are several tractates in which the mixture of water and wine is discussed. One tractate (Shabbath 77a) states that wine that does not carry three parts of water well is not wine. The normal mixture is said to consist of two parts water to one part wine. In a most important reference (Pesahim 108b) it is stated that the four cups every Jew was to drink during the Passover ritual were to be mixed in a ratio of three parts water to one part wine. From this we can conclude with a fair degree of certainty that the fruit of the vine used at the institution of the Lord’s Supper was a mixture of three parts water to one part wine. In another Jewish reference from around 60 B.C. we read, “It is harmful to drink wine alone, or again, to drink water alone, while wine mixed with water is sweet and delicious and enhances one’s enjoyment” (II Maccabees 15:39). http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor...ohol/Wine-Drinking in New Testament Times.htm

I know there are articles that state that water was mixed with wine to make the water safer to drink, but that has no backing so far as being a legitimate reason for dilution.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

While your reply is of what one might consider to be outwardly ambiguous relevance, if not perhaps tangential, I would point out that the Orthodox continue to follow the ancient custom (of the Jews, but also of the Romans and Greeks) of mixing the wine with water. In the Eucharist hot water is poured into the chalice immediately before communion.