An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

[mmksparbud]

agree.

 

[bbbbbbb]

agree.

Excellent!

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Thank you for your excellent reply. I never imagined that the SDA has ever taught that Jesus sinned against God and I thank you for confirming it.

EastCoastRemnant earlier told us to do as Jesus did. Jesus never sinned. Period. Never. Ever.

I would be amazed if you or he or any other SDA would assert that they have never sinned. However, that is precisely what Jesus did and if EastCoastRemnant actually expects anyone to be utterly sinless then he is either extremely deceived or is making a false statement.

Another false statement against me.... where did I state Jesus sinned? I said He didn't keep all the 613 so why should we, as you insist we do? But He did teach and live the 10 Commandments written in stone, which, if you had spiritual discernment, would realize that most of the 613 are in accordance with the principles of them.

Here's just one that Jesus taught us a better way..

That the woman suspected of adultery shall be dealt with as prescribed in the Torah

http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/torah.htm
How did Jesus deal with the woman caught in adultry? Was it, as the 613 said, as prescribed in the Torah? Did Jesus break this commandment bbbbbbb?

I other words, the 10 written in stone supercede and encompass the others written on skins.

 

[masmpg]

So, precisely which commandments did Jesus break and sin against God?

Jesus did not break ANY commandments. If Jesus did break any of God's TEN commandments, which are summed up in the word love, He would have lost the plan of salvation and satan would rule the world until mankind became extinct.

You say that Jesus kept all 613 laws, and rules surrounding the sabbath commandment? He did not. Jesus came to set God's laws loose from the legalistic hypocrite pharisees. Those 613 laws that the leaders of God's church made up Jesus called "commandments of men." Matthew:15:9: "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

 

[masmpg]

But you agree that we are to emulate Jesus, and He was sinless. So now what?
Well, guess what---we are sinless---when we sin and we ask God to forgive us--

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

At that instant, we are sinless----unfortunately, the very next moment comes---
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

What John is referring to here is exactly what he says that "if we SAY we have no sin, or if we SAY we have not sinned. Saying that we have no sin is a sin.


If I could just find that magic button that I can push to become a sinless robot, I would push the stupid thing.

The "magic button" is faith. We are saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8-10, the most important verse in the bible. Most have no idea what it means. We know, by faith that Jesus forgives our sins as we confess them, so by faith we are to grasp the power of grace displayed at the cross for complete victory over all sin in our lives. Paul tells us in 1Corinthians:1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." When we look to the cross through our temptations we will have victory. It is not a sin to be tempted. Paul also tells us that grace was given FOR OBEDIENCE Romans 1:5. That is how grace works through the cross.

 

[masmpg]

Of course we emulate Jesus, but we will never be innately sinless as He was. We are forgiven sinners. On that I think we agree.

We are forgiven sinners, but we never have to sin any more and that is the beauty of being "saved" by grace through faith. It all points to the cross. We come to the cross on our knees asking forgiveness for all unrighteousness, and by faith know that we are forgiven. We are also to go to the cross for victory over every temptation at the moment of that temptation, and know by faith that we will have victory.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Another false statement against me.... where did I state Jesus sinned? I said He didn't keep all the 613 so why should we, as you insist we do? But He did teach and live the 10 Commandments written in stone, which, if you had spiritual discernment, would realize that most of the 613 are in accordance with the principles of them.

Here's just one that Jesus taught us a better way..
How did Jesus deal with the woman caught in adultry? Was it, as the 613 said, as prescribed in the Torah? Did Jesus break this commandment bbbbbbb?

I other words, the 10 written in stone supercede and encompass the others written on skins.

I never stated that you posted that Jesus sinned. If I have done so, please show me my post. I merely corrected you when you failed to understand my question which was as follows:

"Precisely which commandments did Jesus break and sin against God?"

Now that we are in agreement that Jesus did not break any commandments whatsoever, nor did He sin against God by doing so, can you honestly tell me that you do just as Jesus did?

 

[mmksparbud]

I never stated that you posted that Jesus sinned. If I have done so, please show me my post. I merely corrected you when you failed to understand my question which was as follows:

"Precisely which commandments did Jesus break and sin against God?"

Now that we are in agreement that Jesus did not break any commandments whatsoever, nor did He sin against God by doing so, can you honestly tell me that you do just as Jesus did?

I agtee Jesus did not sin-I did not agree He kept the 613. He was only concened with and mentioned the 10, He never once mentioned the other 613--He really only mentioned the 2 as stated in post 337. If you are emulating Jesus then are you making animal sacrifices?? That is what was involved (or in some cases it was food or money). You're back to trying to say we should not keep only the 10 commandments when you said you would not say that any more!

And we call a truce---it would be nice if you did not insist that we shouldn't keep the commandments either---thank you.

Agreed! Thank you,

 

[bbbbbbb]

I agtee Jesus did not sin-I did not agree He kept the 613. He was only concened with and mentioned the 10, He never once mentioned the other 613--He really only mentioned the 2 as stated in post 337. If you are emulating Jesus then are you making animal sacrifices?? That is what was involved (or in some cases it was food or money). You're back to trying to say we should not keep only the 10 commandments when you said you would not say that any more!

Did Jesus Christ keep all of the Sabbath commandments and the dietary commandments?

 

[mmksparbud]

So you are back tracking aren't you?! What is it you are trying to prove?

Jesus was born and raised a Jew! He did what the Jews did back then! That is obvious. But certain things were not done---He did not follow the Rabbis teachings, the 613 are the Rabbis-like the grain and how many paces you can walk on the Sabbath---He didn't do what they said---
He did not keep the dairy separate from the meat--that did not come in until later by Rabbis. It is said this way:

Exo_34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
He did what God said to do as being a man before the Sacrifice of the Lamb (Himself)----what He did after His resurrection however, was different--He would have not obeyed anything dealing with the sacrifices. And there is no record of Him going to the synagogue after His resurrection. He was here for 40 days after His resurrection. No sacrifices, no synagogue mentioned.
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you are back tracking aren't you?! What is it you are trying to prove?

Jesus was born and raised a Jew! He did what the Jews did back then! That is obvious. But certain things were not done---He did not follow the Rabbis teachings, the 613 are the Rabbis-like the grain and how many paces you can walk on the Sabbath---He didn't do what they said---
He did not keep the dairy separate from the meat--that did not come in until later by Rabbis. It is said this way:

Exo_34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
He did what God said to do as being a man before the Sacrifice of the Lamb (Himself)----what He did after His resurrection however, was different--He would have not obeyed anything dealing with the sacrifices. And there is no record of Him going to the synagogue after His resurrection. He was here for 40 days after His resurrection. No sacrifices, no synagogue mentioned.
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Here is my thesis -

1. Jesus Christ lived a perfect, sinless life and never violated a single commandment from God.
2. There are some, such as the SDA, who assert that one is obligated to keep ten of God's commandments even as Jesus did.
3. These individuals insist, as has EastCoastRemnant, that we are to follow the example of Jesus.
4. These individuals have chosen, for reasons unknown to me, to redefine the life of Jesus Christ into one in which He observed only ten of God's commandments.
5. Therefore, they erroneously believe that by observing ten of God's commandments they are following the example of Jesus Christ faithfully.
6. My thesis is that they are doing nothing of the sort and are deceiving themselves if they think so.

I hope this is clear and understandable to you. If not, please let me know which part you do not understand.

Thank you.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Here is my thesis -

1. Jesus Christ lived a perfect, sinless life and never violated a single commandment from God.
2. There are some, such as the SDA, who assert that one is obligated to keep ten of God's commandments even as Jesus did.
3. These individuals insist, as has EastCoastRemnant, that we are to follow the example of Jesus.
4. These individuals have chosen, for reasons unknown to me, to redefine the life of Jesus Christ into one in which He observed only ten of God's commandments.
5. Therefore, they erroneously believe that by observing ten of God's commandments they are following the example of Jesus Christ faithfully.
6. My thesis is that they are doing nothing of the sort and are deceiving themselves if they think so.

I hope this is clear and understandable to you. If not, please let me know which part you do not understand.

Thank you.

You stated that Jesus kept all 613 perfectly.... false statement, He did not. Was it sin? No, because they were the commandments of men, not the Commandments of God. But you have stated that because we believe that we should honour God by doing as He has asked throughout scripture, to keep His Commandments, that we are also to keep the 613. Why do you expect us to do more than what Christ did?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Of course Jesus kept all 613 commandments perfectly.

Here is your quote for refererence.

 

[mmksparbud]

4. These individuals have chosen, for reasons unknown to me, to redefine the life of Jesus Christ into one in which He observed only ten of God's

Nobody has said Jesus did anything short of being a perfect Jew, following all of God's instructions. Now----please prove to me that Jesus kept all 613 Jewish commands after His resurrection. Jesus, as a Jew, did what every Jew did, and as a Rabbi, He narrowed that down to 2--as has been stated.
The 10 commandments are still the complete law of God---the 1st 4 deal with our relationship to God the last 6 with our relationship to man. If you break one you break all. Jesus kept them all.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

If you believe this means all 613 commandments, then you better get busy and start sacrificing.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The precepts and principles of the Decalogue expand into much more than what was written on stone. Jesus taught us that when He said that the thought of lust was equivalent to adultery, that the thought of anger was equivalent to murder. These principles that you so lightly regard are the key to seeking God and His righteousness and to being found without guile in us. Righteousness is simple right doing... right doing what God has Commanded.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Here is your quote for refererence.

Thanks.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Nobody has said Jesus did anything short of being a perfect Jew, following all of God's instructions. Now----please prove to me that Jesus kept all 613 Jewish commands after His resurrection. Jesus, as a Jew, did what every Jew did, and as a Rabbi, He narrowed that down to 2--as has been stated.
The 10 commandments are still the complete law of God---the 1st 4 deal with our relationship to God the last 6 with our relationship to man. If you break one you break all. Jesus kept them all.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

If you believe this means all 613 commandments, then you better get busy and start sacrificing.

I thought I made it clear in my thesis statement that I am not one of the individuals who is asserting that we must follow the example of Jesus Christ in His keeping of God's commandments. I am not.

If you are (and I have no reason to doubt it) then it is you who ought to be seriously striving to keep God's commandments.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The precepts and principles of the Decalogue expand into much more than what was written on stone. Jesus taught us that when He said that the thought of lust was equivalent to adultery, that the thought of anger was equivalent to murder. These principles that you so lightly regard are the key to seeking God and His righteousness and to being found without guile in us. Righteousness is simple right doing... right doing what God has Commanded.

Very well. Now, would you please address my thesis statement?

 

[mmksparbud]

I thought I made it clear in my thesis statement that I am not one of the individuals who is asserting that we must follow the example of Jesus Christ in His keeping of God's commandments. I am not.

If you are (and I have no reason to doubt it) then it is you who ought to be seriously striving to keep God's commandments.

Are you then saying that revelation, contrary to the book of Hebrews, is saying we are to keep the Levitical laws?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are you then saying that revelation, contrary to the book of Hebrews, is saying we are to keep the Levitical laws?

My thesis statement does not address that issue. If you are interested in it then I suggest that you might take it up with EastCoastRemant. He is the one who has made the statement that we need to follow the example of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ did keep the Levitical commandments.

It then stands to reason that if we are to follow His example, we ought to keep the commandments He kept.