Amils have some explaining to do.

[sovereigngrace]

Let's think this through. There are 3 aspects of the beast in question. 1) It was. 2) Is not. 3) Shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Clearly, in regards to it's 42 month reign, that only fits 3). But assuming Amil is correct about the timing of the thousand years, that it began around the time of the cross, and that John the Baptist was beheaded before the time of the cross, per this scenario, that would place John the Baptist's martyrdom during 1), and certainly not during 3). But what about a martyr, such as Stephen? He was martyred post the cross, and that when John was given these visions, it was also post the cross. This would indicate, assuming Amil, that Stephen is martyred during the thousand years. But during the thousand years, assuming Amil, the status of the beast at the time would be is not. One can't then claim Stephen's martyrdom was directly because of this beast.

Per Premil though, and maybe other Premils might agree, and maybe they won't, but here's what I propose.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There are two groups of martyrs seen here.

1) them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

2) which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

As to someone, such as Stephen, his martyrdom fits 1).

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

In this passage here, we see these same 2 groups.

Verse 9 is referring to the martyrs in 1) above, which include martyrs, such as Stephen, and John the Baptist, as some examples. This part in verse 11 is referring to 2) above, and that the beast has to ascend of the pit before they can even be martyred because of it, and that they are undeniably already martyred before satan is even loosed from the pit----their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Forget to add the rest of that verse, so I did so now. Notice what it says---should be fulfilled. Apparently, as of Revelation 20:4, and this is before satan is ever loosed from the pit, this has been fulfilled. Thus, no martyrdom of saints happening after the thousand years, except Amils need that be happening after the thousand years in order for their position to even work.

The issue is: Amils have repeatedly addressed this here (and on Bibleforums), but you continually avoid the evidence. Sadly, your pattern is: when your views are refuted you disappear from the discussion. You refuse to admit the obvious. That has been your pattern for years. What you do not realize is that the objective lurkers are not satisfied with that, and many end up embracing Amil.

I have already addressed this, and you have already avoided this. You havre to do this for your argument to survive. I will try again.

Firstly, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet's activity are not simply restricted to 42 months before Christ's Coming, as you suggest. I didn't think anyone believed that, although, nothing shocks me in end-time discussion. Moreover, to attribute what you wrongly believe on this to the Amil position is wrong. Amils believe that they continue throughout the intra-Advent period (the millennium time).

Secondly, the beast represents the ongoing reign of Satan on the earth throughout time through the world secular anti-Christ system. It is not an end-time invention as Futurist's imagine.

Thirdly, Revelation is not chronological. It is a number of recaps describing the same intra-Advent period. The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture. The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

Fourthly, martyrdom was/is never limited to 42 months at the end as you claim. Every informed Bible student knows that. Martyrdom has occurred since the stoning of Stephen. Millions have been butchered by the beast system for their faith in the OT and NT, in the early Church, under the jackboot of Romanism, and right up until today. To limit martyrdom to 42 months at the end exposes your theological bias, your ignorance of history and your lack of objectivity.

Fifthly, there is good reason to connect Satan’s little season with the last 3.5 years (42 months/1260 days), found in Scripture. This does not demand a literal meaning in this most symbolic of books. This describes the final conflict between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Satan and the beast will be loosed at the end to resist the people of God. That is when the restraint is simply removed. Right at the end, the kingdom of darkness is overthrew.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Amils think there is not a single contradiction in any of the above (O.P.'s 7 verses) if all of that is meaning during the thousand years while satan is in the pit? Explain why there are no contradictions. You at least owe us that since you are the ones alleging no contradictions ... Explain to us how there are zero contradictions if Satan is locked away in the pit at the time?

Quoted from Dr. Thomas R. Schreiner (Associate dean of the school of theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.)

Amillennialists suggest the locking away in a pit is symbolic and does not mean Satan is absent from earth. The text says he can no longer deceive the nations. Some interpret this to mean that Satan, during the present evil age, is unable to deceive the nations into gathering at Armageddon. According to this reading, the text does not say Satan does not deceive anyone; the point is that the nations are not deceived to the extent that they wage final war against God’s people. Another way of interpreting this from the amillennial perspective is that the deception relates to the spread of the gospel. With the coming of Christ, the gospel now goes to the ends of the earth. In the OT salvation was confined to Israel, and the nations of the world were deceived. Now the gospel is believed in all nations, and thus Satan no longer deceives the nations as he did in the OT era. Unbelievers are still deceived by Satan, but the deception over all nations that characterized the OT period is now lifted, so that some believe from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. Satan was bound at the cross (Matt. 12:29; cf. John 12:31; Col. 2:15; Rev. 12:9), say amillennialists, prevented from gathering and uniting all nations to oppose the Christ and his people until the time of the end.

 

[Zao is life]

What does any of this have to with Amils deceiving or not deceiving someone? That's not the point of the OP or this thread. Even though I presently don't agree with Amil, I would never charge them with trying to deceive anyone. They simply believe they are correct, the same way Premils believe they are correct. That doesn't mean anyone from either side is trying to deceive anyone. It just means both sides are stubborn, and neither side wants to admit it might be the other side that is correct, and not their side instead.

The point of the OP is this. Amils believe we are in the thousand years presently. So I provided 7 verses where they need to explain how there can be no contradictions in those verses if satan is bound at the time. The verse you brought up from the OP, that involves lying and deceiving, and according to the verse, satan was the one that put it in their hearts to do so. So how did he manage to do that if he is supposed to be in the pit at the time, this assuming Amil? Doesn't Revelation 20 indicate he's bound in the pit so that he can deceive the nations no more? Yet, that verse in Acts looks like he's still deceiving ppl to me, though .

I apologize, and most profusely. I was quite shocked because I was too dumb to realize that the point you were making was that Satan had put it into Ananias' heart to deceive, the emphasis being on the activity of Satan and not on Ananias' deception. I placed the emphasis on his deception when I read it. I think I've been listening to Christians accusing one another and ascribing motives which don't exist too much in the last couple of days, in YouTube and other websites. It was the first line of your OP, and I see now that there was no difference to that and the rest of the examples you gave, so I should have failed to "spot a difference" between the first line and the rest in your OP, because there was no difference.

It wouldn't have happened if I haven't been watching apologetic videos and reading about Christians ascribing motives to one another that don't exist. It probably wouldn't have happened either if the first verse you quoted was one of the others instead of the one at the top (not your fault, but mine). I agree with your point in your OP 100% of course.

 

[DavidPT]

Some interpret this to mean that Satan, during the present evil age, is unable to deceive the nations into gathering at Armageddon. According to this reading, the text does not say Satan does not deceive anyone; the point is that the nations are not deceived to the extent that they wage final war against God’s people.

I have heard this interpretation before. I just don't see it making much sense, based on what the text says. The text says---so that he can deceive the nations no more, which implies he was deceiving the nations initially. The text doesn't say---so that he can deceive the nations no more into gathering at Armageddon, which would imply that was something he has done in the past, which wouldn't even be true of course.


IMO, for example, when the beast is in the pit, and is not, it's as if he or it doesn't even exist at the time, the fact he or it is not persecuting one single person while it's in the pit. The same is true when the locusts are in the pit. It's as if they don't even exist at the time, the fact they are not tormenting one single person while in the pit. The same should be true while satan is in the pit. It should be as if he doesn't even exist at the time either. But during Amil's version of the thousand years, it's not even remotely like satan doesn't even exist at the time. But during Premil's version of the thousand years it will be like that. satan will be in the pit and stay in the pit the entire thousand years. He won't be bothering a single person outside of the pit during the thousand years.

 

[Zao is life]

Amils are clearly confused about the first resurrection, no doubt.

But when it comes to prophetic events involving before the thousand years, during the thousand years, and after the thousand years, there are certain events, such as the 42 month reign of the beast, and the martyrdom Revelation 20:4 records it caused, that have to fit this timeline. There is chronology here that can't be ignored or denied. Such as, before the thousand years there is a time period where satan is not yet in the pit. During the thousand years satan is in the pit the entire thousand years. After the thousand years he is no longer in the pit. But Amils have him in and out of the pit during the thousand years, because if they are correct about when the thousand years are meaning, there are numerous Scriptures, such as I brought up in the OP, that show satan couldn't possibly be in the pit at the time. Yet Amils claim he is.

These martyred by the beast, according to Revelation 20:4, is key in determining where the thousand years actually fit. Their martyrdom can only occur after the beast has ascended out of the pit first. Yet, Amils claim, or at least some of them appear to, that the beast ascends out of the pit after the thousand years. If that's true, is one to believe something silly, such as, those in Revelation 20:4 who are martyred because of this beast, they are martyred while the beast is not, while it's in the pit, that they are martyred before a beast ever rises out of the sea, and another out of the earth?

Yes they have to do a lot of dancing around all the scriptures you mention (and shifting chairs at the same time).

Jesus said (in the closing hours just before His arrest) that the judgment of this world is "now" and the ruler of this world would be cast out "now" - and Revelation 12 tells us that Satan was cast out, and they overcame him "by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony" In the same chapter we read that after Satan was cast down to the earth, he went to make war against the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 12:17). All the verses you quoted show that he was doing that from the start of the symbolic millennium (which incidentally is the reason I disagree with those pre-mills who believe Rev 12 is still to be fulfilled).

Nevertheless in an A-mill universe, the beast ascended out of the pit and was controlled by Satan, and was thrown into the LOF immediately before the start of the thousand years (and a thousand years before Satan will be thrown into the LOF), therefore the beast has not been around during this symbolic 1,000 years while Satan has been bound,

- but the souls had been martyred because of their testimony to Christ and because of their refusal to worship the beast, its image or take its mark/number, so those who fly around in their spacecraft in their A-mill universe, darting around at the speed of light to avoid collision with all the scriptures getting in their way, have to tell us who the beast was that existed 2,000 years ago - and that, I've noticed, leads to a good few diverging theories in the A-mill universe - their space-ships start colliding with each other when you ask them who the beast was.

They also have to tell us who it was in the 1st century (or just before the death and resurrection of Christ?) that had to worship the beast, is image and take its mark, or be killed - and that leads to even more theories and even more space-ship collisions in the A-mill universe.

To top it all, the fact that Paul tells us that the dead in Christ will rise first, and those who are still alive will be changed - and that, at the parousia (second coming of Christ) - is just as problematic for the A-mills, when we read that it's the beast that ascended out of the abyss that kills the two witnesses, and they rise from the dead 3 1/2 days after they have been killed - so this places the beast's appearance back at the close of the "symbolic millennium" - but it can't be - because that same beast had his butt burnt already in the LOF just before, or at the start of the symbolic millennium, a thousand years before the devil goes there.

A-millennialism makes a great deal of sense...

 

[Zao is life]

Quoted from Dr. Thomas R. Schreiner (Associate dean of the school of theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.)

Amillennialists suggest the locking away in a pit is symbolic and does not mean Satan is absent from earth. The text says he can no longer deceive the nations. Some interpret this to mean that Satan, during the present evil age, is unable to deceive the nations into gathering at Armageddon. According to this reading, the text does not say Satan does not deceive anyone; the point is that the nations are not deceived to the extent that they wage final war against God’s people. Another way of interpreting this from the amillennial perspective is that the deception relates to the spread of the gospel. With the coming of Christ, the gospel now goes to the ends of the earth. In the OT salvation was confined to Israel, and the nations of the world were deceived. Now the gospel is believed in all nations, and thus Satan no longer deceives the nations as he did in the OT era. Unbelievers are still deceived by Satan, but the deception over all nations that characterized the OT period is now lifted, so that some believe from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. Satan was bound at the cross (Matt. 12:29; cf. John 12:31; Col. 2:15; Rev. 12:9), say amillennialists, prevented from gathering and uniting all nations to oppose the Christ and his people until the time of the end.

The trouble with the above theory is that the battle of Armageddon results in the throwing of the beast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan goes into the same lake, for the same thousand years during which Satan is bound - placing Armageddon at 2,000 years ago in an A-millennium universe.

 

[Christian Gedge]

The trouble with the above theory is that the battle of Armageddon results in the throwing of the beast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan goes into the same lake, for the same thousand years during which Satan is bound - placing Armageddon at 2,000 years ago in an A-millennium universe.

So, you are treating the events of chapter 19 (Armageddon) as being immediately before the events of chapter 20. But Revelation is not written in strict chronological sequence. Im sure that SG has explained that on several occasions. There is a lot of recapitulation in the book of Revelation.

 

[BABerean2]

Clearly, in regards to it's 42 month reign, that only fits

John saw "souls" in heaven at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20, which he also saw in chapter 6.

Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


John the Baptist's soul would have been there during the time John was given the Revelation.
Therefore, the group would include John the Baptist, along with those killed during the 42 months.

If the Millennium is symbolic of most of the Church Age, it would include those outside of the 42 months.
You are making an assumption to make the Premill doctrine work, just as you ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.


.

 

[Timtofly]

Who is "the first resurrection" in Acts 26:23?

Who is "the firstborn from the dead" in Colossians 1:18?

Who is "the firstfruits of them that slept" in 1 Corinthians 15:20?

Who is "first begotten of the dead" in Revelation 1:5?

Why so literal one day, and figurative the next? The word "first" is not a magic wand any more than "1000".

You realize that Christ was on the earth at the beginning of the church, and will be on the earth at the end. Now that is two distinct events. There will be first time experiences in both events. Some first took place in the 1st century. Some will take place in the next 6 years. No one in the church had a first resurrection yet have they? But more to reality the whole church is not even physically dead in Christ. There is no more physical death for those in Christ. We leave this world in Christ immediately to be with Christ in Paradise. There will never be a first or last general resurrection of the church. If you want to call leaving this body at death and entering Paradise a resurrection or translation or elevator, it does not matter, because it does not happen ever as a first or last general resurrection.

All the OT believers had one general resurrection and were the firstfruits with Christ at the Cross. They could not be resurrected nor enter Paradise until the Atonement was presented to God in the temple of God. The heavenly alter, was where The Lamb presented the Atonement and the firstfruits of the OT believers to God as one. The rapture is where Christ presents the completed church to God as ONE.

Paul claims all, both OT and NT believers are then glorified as one body. John connects that thought in the 5th seal that those in Paradise receive their glorified bodies, the 6th seal is both the rapture and Second Coming. Revelation 7 claims the church is complete and glorified. This happens before the Trumpets and Thunders judgments. And God and Christ have not left earth for these judgments. God is in view on the throne, while Christ and the 144K are carrying out the final harvest for months. The church is a witness as well on thrones with God. At the very least can witness from Paradise. Neither Paul nor John give specific details, but we know they have been watching since the 1st century. So has every believer who has gone before. And to be in Paradise one must have an incorruptible body. Where in Scripture do they have formless souls only?

 

[Timtofly]

If the Millennium is symbolic of most of the Church Age, it would include those outside of the 42 months.
You are making an assumption to make the Premill doctrine work, just as you ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

How many people die in Revelation 20 and when?

The first generation cannot die, so they are still alive today physically, if we are in the millennium. The resurrection in Revelation 20 is physical not spiritual. A physical resurrection is physical, not symbolic of spiritual.

Revelation 20 has many being killed by fire at the end, but mentions no one dying prior to the end. Many have been consumed by fire, the martyrs, but by humans. Are you equating burning at the stake, many burned by fire in the 2 world Wars with the fire from heaven in Revelation 20?

No assumptions other than found in Scripture. Having babies for many generations is both biblical and current reality, no? Did modern technology allow life to multiply to concerns over population control? What about Christ physically ruling for 1000 years? There will be no over population environmental concerns in God’s government on earth. The assumption is that is it happening now.

 

[Timtofly]

So, you are treating the events of chapter 19 (Armageddon) as being immediately before the events of chapter 20. But Revelation is not written in strict chronological sequence. Im sure that SG has explained that on several occasions. There is a lot of recapitulation in the book of Revelation.

Except John does not contradict himself once with his written order. Only those who take it out of order keep contradicting themselves. The FP and beast do go into the lake of fire for 1000 years before any one else. At the battle of Armageddon, they are not sent to sheol with the humans. They are sent to the lake of fire. You cannot change the order or you place the battle of Armageddon in the wrong place in time or place the FP and beast in the lake of fire at the wrong time. Revelation 19:20-21

20 But the beast was taken captive, and with it the false prophet who, in its presence, had done the miracles which he had used to deceive those who had received the mark of the beast and those who had worshipped his image. The beast and the false prophet were both thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
21 The rest were killed with the sword that goes out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

No humans, besides the FP, placed in the lake of fire here, they are just dead. Satan was not thrown into the lake of fire. He was bound in the pit though. Unless Satan was not at the battle of Armageddon. See Revelation 16:12-16

12 The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water dried up, in order to prepare the way for the kings from the east.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs; they came from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet.
14 They are miracle-working demonic spirits which go out to the kings of the whole inhabited world to assemble them for the War of the Great Day of Adonai-Tzva’ot.
15 (“Look! I am coming like a thief! How blessed are those who stay alert and keep their clothes clean, so that they won’t be walking naked and be publicly put to shame!”)
16 And they gathered the kings to the place which in Hebrew is called Har Megiddo.

Why would Satan "gather the troops" if Satan is not going to be there? How did the 6th vial get poured out in the 1st century while Jesus was on the Cross?

 

[DavidPT]

John saw "souls" in heaven at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20, which he also saw in chapter 6.

Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


John the Baptist's soul would have been there during the time John was given the Revelation.
Therefore, the group would include John the Baptist, along with those killed during the 42 months.

If the Millennium is symbolic of most of the Church Age, it would include those outside of the 42 months.
You are making an assumption to make the Premill doctrine work, just as you ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.


.

Then you are not reading my posts carefully, or have not read all of my posts. I did indicate in at least one of my posts John the Baptist was among the martyrs seen in Revelation 20:4, except he wasn't martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast. We are basically in agreement here, except for where the thousand years fit. In Revelation 6, John the Baptist would be among the souls resting under the altar, crying out for revenge. Their brethren that must also be killed, this is meaning the other group of martyrs in Revelation 20:4, the ones that didn't worship the beast during the 42 month reign of the beast.

And according to Revelation 20:4, this part has been entirely fulfilled before satan is ever loosed from the pit---until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled(Revelation 6:11)

This clearly indicates, that even before satan is ever loosed from the pit, the 42 month reign of the beast is over, which then means the 2nd coming has to precede the thousand years. It also means that the 42 month reign of the beast has zero to do with anything after the thousand years. Amil can't even work if satan's little season doesn't involve the 42 month of the beast. But if I am wrong about that, explain how Amil can still work if the 42 month reign of the beast begins and concludes before satan's little season even begins?

 

[Zao is life]

So, you are treating the events of chapter 19 (Armageddon) as being immediately before the events of chapter 20. But Revelation is not written in strict chronological sequence. Im sure that SG has explained that on several occasions. There is a lot of recapitulation in the book of Revelation.

I'm sure he believes it too

 

[DavidPT]

So, you are treating the events of chapter 19 (Armageddon) as being immediately before the events of chapter 20. But Revelation is not written in strict chronological sequence. Im sure that SG has explained that on several occasions. There is a lot of recapitulation in the book of Revelation.

A lot of us agree that Revelation is not written in strict chronological sequence. But what exactly does that prove, in this particular case involving chapters 19 and 20? What about chapters 21 and 22, per Amil? Do Amils think that is a recapitulation as well, that it doesn't chronologically follow Revelation 20?

 

[DavidPT]

No humans, besides the FP, placed in the lake of fire here, they are just dead. Satan was not thrown into the lake of fire. He was bound in the pit though.

This is yet something else that destroys Amil. In Revelation 19, clearly the lake of fire is in view as of the 2nd coming, except there is not one single mention of satan also being cast into it at the time. But if John actually saw satan also getting cast into the LOF at the time, why did he neglect to tell us a major fact such as this? Even the beast's armies are not shown to be cast into the LOF at the time either. Yet, Amils claim Revelation 19 records all of them being cast into the LOF at the time.

 

[BABerean2]

Then you are not reading my posts carefully, or have not read all of my posts. I did indicate in at least one of my posts John the Baptist was among the martyrs seen in Revelation 20:4, except he wasn't martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast. We are basically in agreement here, except for where the thousand years fit. In Revelation 6, John the Baptist would be among the souls resting under the altar, crying out for revenge. Their brethren that must also be killed, this is meaning the other group of martyrs in Revelation 20:4, the ones that didn't worship the beast during the 42 month reign of the beast.

And according to Revelation 20:4, this part has been entirely fulfilled before satan is ever loosed from the pit---until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled(Revelation 6:11)

This clearly indicates, that even before satan is ever loosed from the pit, the 42 month reign of the beast is over, which then means the 2nd coming has to precede the thousand years. It also means that the 42 month reign of the beast has zero to do with anything after the thousand years. Amil can't even work if satan's little season doesn't involve the 42 month of the beast. But if I am wrong about that, explain how Amil can still work if the 42 month reign of the beast begins and concludes before satan's little season even begins?

Should we find it ironic that you can add the words "forty-two months" to Revelation chapter 20, but you cannot see "the time of the judgment of the dead" found in Revelation 11?


.

 

[BABerean2]

How many people die in Revelation 20 and when?

Paul said below the fire comes at the return of Christ.

2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.


We also find the fire below at the end of Revelation 20.
The exact number killed is not given in either passage.


Rev 20:9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.


.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Im not quite following what people are saying about Armageddon, FP's, LOF's, etc so I'll just go back to the opening post and answer it again.

Premill interprets Satan being bound to mean a period of 100% inactivity from Satan from involvement in the world.

Amill doesn’t interpret scripture the same way, so using verses like Satan roaming around like a lion doesn’t create conflict for the non-Premill views. We believe the change in scope of Satan deceiving the gentile/nations was the event of Christ binding Satan at the cross with the power of the gospel, so that the Gentiles en masse, for the first time, were able to come out of the darkness of the shadow of death, into the light. Satan is now powerless from deceiving and keeping the Gentiles in complete darkness as he did before Calvary.

Yes Satan still roams and devours, but he cannot prevent the multitudes of Gentiles from the nations to come out of darkness anymore as he used to be able to do. I hope this answers the original topic question.

 

[DavidPT]

Should we find it ironic that you can add the words "forty-two months" to Revelation chapter 20, but you cannot see "the time of the judgment of the dead" found in Revelation 11?


.

I can see the time of the dead in that chapter. It is not meaning the time of all the dead, it's only meaning the time of the blessed dead. Does not the text state---that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great? Does that sound like any of that might also involve the wicked dead?

As of the 7th trumpet, not everyone on earth is even dead yet. So how can it be the time of the dead for all of the dead?

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. We have been over this before. Does that sound like something one does to someone already dead? I would think, as of this verse, one would be wanting to maybe consult Revelation 15 and 16 next, in order to see what all this leads to. No one should be consulting Revelation 20:11-15 next, since this is not what it leads to.

 

[BABerean2]

I can see the time of the dead in that chapter. It is not meaning the time of all the dead, it's only meaning the time of the blessed dead. Does not the text state---that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great? Does that sound like any of that might also involve the wicked dead?

You left out some people for some strange reason.

Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."


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