America's parents want paid family leave and affordable child care. Why can't they get it?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oppression of the poor, yes in the USA, has increased every year. It is rampant today, and only going to get worse, in line with all Scripture and prophesy, until Jesus Returns.

Parents are under a lot of unjust, unrighteous pressures in and throughout the society.

 

[Paidiske]

And why would it be right for the person who didn't go to college to have to pay higher taxes so someone else can go to college?

Because society believes that education is worth investing in. An educated citizenry benefits the whole society.

And I cannot see any reason on earth why a society would value investing in warfare to the extent the US does, over investing in the health and education of its population. Except that some oligarchs have worked out that warfare will make them richer...

 

[blackribbon]

Oppression of the poor, yes in the USA, has increased every year. It is rampant today, and only going to get worse, in line with all Scripture and prophesy, until Jesus Returns.

Parents are under a lot of unjust, unrighteous pressures in and throughout the society.

For example?....

 

[blackribbon]

Because society believes that education is worth investing in. An educated citizenry benefits the whole society.

And I cannot see any reason on earth why a society would value investing in warfare to the extent the US does, over investing in the health and education of its population. Except that some oligarchs have worked out that warfare will make them richer...

College is accessible for everyone who wants to go. Government financial aid is available on top of that. K-12 grades are free. I have a problem with the fact that there are so many remedial courses offered in the "colleges"...meaning this is high school level work that should have been learned while in the public school system. No, I do not want to finance the "young adult" who doesn't really want to work and opts to "hang out in college" while I pay extra taxes. There are plenty of ways to pay for college for the person who is really motivated to learn.

Sitting in college classes does not make a person more educated or a more educated society if the person doesn't take advantage of the education.

 

[Paidiske]

College is accessible for everyone who wants to go.

And yet google finds me dozens of articles explaining all the financial reasons why that's not actually true.

Even in Australia - which seems to have a much better system than America - that's not true.

 

[blackribbon]

And I cannot see any reason on earth why a society would value investing in warfare to the extent the US does, over investing in the health and education of its population. Except that some oligarchs have worked out that warfare will make them richer...

And there are ways to get necessary health care in the US, especially for the poorest of the people. Each state/county handles it differently. Most is through county managed clinics.

 

[Paidiske]

And there are ways to get necessary health care in the US, especially for the poorest of the people. Each state/county handles it differently. Most is through county managed clinics.

They why do so many people go without? Or suffer such incredible financial hardship for what, in most first-world countries, would be provided by the government at no cost?

 

[blackribbon]

And yet google finds me dozens of articles explaining all the financial reasons why that's not actually true.

Even in Australia - which seems to have a much better system than America - that's not true.

Americans are spoiled. They don't want to do without to get ahead. The articles are likely out to prove that you can't go to a big 4 year school and live the "traditional" college experience. This is true. However, I have my nursing degree (RN) that says otherwise. My daughter is now a professional graphic designer with her community college degree and can work on her bachelors while working as a professional by commuting to a local state college. And my son has his community college degree and is working toward the career he wants to have. We all worked while going to community college and have no college debt. We didn't even use financial aide either. I am living it. But no, none of us could have afforded to go live in a dorm and not work while going to a big 4 year school...but our education is just as good (I have an expensive degree from a big 4 year school also and did the whole dorm thing back when I was young).

 

[blackribbon]

They why do so many people go without? Or suffer such incredible financial hardship for what, in most first-world countries, would be provided by the government at no cost?

What are they going without? I am a nurse. I take care of people from all economic brackets and they all get the high level care and facilities regardless of their ability to pay.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm not saying there aren't community colleges and the like, but even those aren't accessible to everyone. It's not just "traditional" college that isn't accessible.

As for what people are going without in terms of medical care: " One in five uninsured adults in 2018 went without needed medical care due to cost. Studies repeatedly demonstrate that uninsured people are less likely than those with insurance to receive preventive care and services for major health conditions and chronic diseases."

From here: Key Facts about the Uninsured Population

That's just the first useful link I found.

I'm sure you care brilliantly for all your patients, but what about all those people who never even get to see you?

 

[blackribbon]

They why do so many people go without? Or suffer such incredible financial hardship for what, in most first-world countries, would be provided by the government at no cost?

I think the hardships are more for things like getting income when you are suffering or recovering from medical situations. Most hospitals in the US are non-profit and are required to provide a certain amount of indigent care each year. Proof of inability to pay can result in monthly payments of say $25/month for the rest of your life (my neighbor who got advanced cancer treatment which did save her life) or they just write it off. There is medicaid insurance which can be free for very low income people or low cost for others who are in the lower income range.

In other countries that have government provided health care, many people are put in very long lines for care that we receive quickly or are not even told about options that the government isn't willing to pay for.

 

[Paidiske]

In other countries that have government provided health care, many people are put in very long lines for care that we receive quickly ...

True that we have waiting lists for non-urgent stuff and that can be a problem. But 1 in 5 people going without needed medical care due to cost doesn't match what you're saying.

But to my mind, all of this - whether or not the government should pay for healthcare, or education (my answer is an incredulous, of course it should) - is a bit separate from where this conversation started, which was the idea of paid maternity leave.

I still think that is not so much a necessity, and that workplace flexibility over the long term is more important than receiving full pay for the short term.

 

[blackribbon]

My family was uninsured for a couple years. Obamacare took away a lot of lower cost policies that I could have afforded (catastrophic care only insurance). I will be uninsured again at the end of the month because I realized that I was paying $1000 month for through my employers and then I'd have to pay $2000 deductible per family member, before we could use it. I am just going to put the money in a savings account to have when we need medical services.

That all said, I do not want government healthcare. I have seen how our government runs the Veteran's Hospitals which is the one form of national healthcare we have and it is just a mess where the patients don't matter, and red-tape and long lines are the norm. Most countries are not trying to provide government healthcare to a population as large as ours. I see that it would simply be a nightmare...for both the patients as well as the healthcare providers.

 

[Paidiske]

It probably depends on how it's done. I hear that Britain's NHS, for example, has different strengths and weaknesses to our system. I can certainly understand resistance to government healthcare done badly.

But even here we have a private system which exists separately for those who don't want to use the state system. But at least the state system exists for everyone who has no other option.

 

[blackribbon]

It probably depends on how it's done. I hear that Britain's NHS, for example, has different strengths and weaknesses to our system. I can certainly understand resistance to government healthcare done badly.

But even here we have a private system which exists separately for those who don't want to use the state system. But at least the state system exists for everyone who has no other option.

We do have a system. It is government health insurance. Medicaid for poor. CHIPs for children. I know those who are use these insurances often have better coverage than those who buy private coverage.

 

[blackribbon]

True that we have waiting lists for non-urgent stuff and that can be a problem. But 1 in 5 people going without needed medical care due to cost doesn't match what you're saying.

But to my mind, all of this - whether or not the government should pay for healthcare, or education (my answer is an incredulous, of course it should) - is a bit separate from where this conversation started, which was the idea of paid maternity leave.

I still think that is not so much a necessity, and that workplace flexibility over the long term is more important than receiving full pay for the short term.

I agree with the need for more flexiblity. However, I don't think the government mandating it is the best way. Some companies and jobs just can't accommodate a woman taking off for 12 months every couple years as they grow their families. I would think the best way would be to offer tax credits for companies that provide flexible working situations for parents. The companies that could do this, would get a win. The companies that can't accommodate this wouldn't be required to.

 

[Paidiske]

We do have a system. It is government health insurance. Medicaid for poor. CHIPs for children. I know those who are use these insurances often have better coverage than those who buy private coverage.

And yet 1 in 5 people are still going without necessary medical treatment. Doesn't sound like your system is working too well.

I agree with the need for more flexiblity. However, I don't think the government mandating it is the best way. Some companies and jobs just can't accommodate a woman taking off for 12 months every couple years as they grow their families. I would think the best way would be to offer tax credits for companies that provide flexible working situations for parents. The companies that could do this, would get a win. The companies that can't accommodate this wouldn't be required to.

If the government doesn't mandate it, employers will take every opportunity to screw their employees over; and as usual, the most unskilled and powerless in the system will be hurt worst.

Amazing that here in Australia we have a right to a year's (unpaid) maternity leave, and all our employers make it work. I look at all the claims that it "can't be accommodated" as excuses not to treat employees decently. If you can't treat your employees decently, you shouldn't have them.

But I agree that greater flexibility beyond that first year is enormously important.

 

[blackribbon]

And yet 1 in 5 people are still going without necessary medical treatment. Doesn't sound like your system is working too well.

There are many reasons beyond cost that people go without necessary medical treatment. Cost is only one of them. Trying to get time off work or away from family responsibilities, fear of healthcare, denial of health diagnoses are three more. The picture is much bigger than "free healthcare for all." Plenty of people who have insurance skip dialysis treatments or refuse to manage their diabetes. The list is huge why people don't get the care they need.

Are you telling me that Australians always follow the recommendations of their medical practitioners and are getting necessary treatments...since they are free to all. No heart attacks or diabetic blood sugar issues because everyone eats right? No obesity issues? Everyone gets an annual physical and a complete blood panel workup each year? Everyone goes to the dentist twice a year? Everyone is wearing the proper eye prescription? (these are are necessary medical treatment situations)

 

[Paidiske]

There are many reasons beyond cost that people go without necessary medical treatment. Cost is only one of them. Trying to get time off work or away from family responsibilities, fear of healthcare, denial of health diagnoses are three more. The picture is much bigger than "free healthcare for all." Plenty of people who have insurance skip dialysis treatments or refuse to manage their diabetes. The list is huge why people don't get the care they need.

Are you telling me that Australians always follow the recommendations of their medical practitioners and are getting necessary treatments...since they are free to all. No heart attacks or diabetic blood sugar issues because everyone eats right? No obesity issues? Everyone gets an annual physical and a complete blood panel workup each year? Everyone goes to the dentist twice a year? Everyone is wearing the proper eye prescription? (these are are necessary medical treatment situations)

But cost is the identified cause for 1 in 5 people without medical insurance.

Sure, not everyone is a model patient. But I can see a doctor this afternoon at no cost if I need one, or even just if I think I might want to. I can have my prescription medications subsidised by the government. I can get a mental health care plan to cover a psychologist if need be. If I need to go to hospital, I can do so and have no bill to pay. My daughter's speech and social therapies are paid for.

Not everybody in America has that safety net. Heck, I know Americans who moved here specifically because our healthcare was so much better.

 

[blackribbon]

But cost is the identified cause for 1 in 5 people without medical insurance.

Sure, not everyone is a model patient. But I can see a doctor this afternoon at no cost if I need one, or even just if I think I might want to. I can have my prescription medications subsidised by the government. I can get a mental health care plan to cover a psychologist if need be. If I need to go to hospital, I can do so and have no bill to pay. My daughter's speech and social therapies are paid for.

Not everybody in America has that safety net. Heck, I know Americans who moved here specifically because our healthcare was so much better.

Yes, but you couldn't get in for critical cancer surgery and care within 3 days of diagnosis like my husband did.

People may say that the cost is the reason but that doesn't mean that when they are provided a low cost/free option that they suddenly go.

Even with the ability to pay, a lot of time you can't be seen by your doctor the same day because there are no available appointments. We have a multitude of issues involved in our medical systems. Part is having to find a system to meet the needs of 300 million people.