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America's parents want paid family leave and affordable child care. Why can't they get it?

Discussion in 'Parenting' started by 98cwitr, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Daycare, paid maternity leave: Why US is still bad for working parents

    My wife is a stay at home mom. With daycare north of $1200/mo, and her on a teacher's salary, it made no sense to pay such an amount to have someone else raise our children. Maybe the traditional way of things is the best way of doing this?
     
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  2. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    I think the US has some catching up to do.

    [​IMG]
    OB
     
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  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    If by 'traditional' you mean the once more common GODLY ways, then yes.
    The modern ways for about a century now seem clearly like they were designed to destroy families and Godly values.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  4. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    follow
     
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  5. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    I personally think God calls us to live more simply and frugally and to have one parent home raising our own children. It isnt easy and it isnt a popular belief but usually the second working parent doesnt really make that much after taking out the cost of childcare and the expenses of having a job.

    As for affordable childcare or paid time off...do you think that childcare workers make too much money or where do the cuts come?...and why should a person be paid to not work? And who should be paying for this?
     
  6. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    The traditional way - pre-industrial revolution - was extended families living together, with the means of deriving an income in and around the home (no "going to work" outside the home), and everyone contributing to family life and income-generation as they were able. There were lots of good things about that model (and some not-so-good things), but the world has changed and most of us are not able to live that way in our contemporary society.

    That said, I don't think demonising working mothers does us any good. Each family will do the best they can with the opportunities they have, and if that means working mothers, that family is probably better off than if that mother didn't have the opportunity to work.

    In my experience, workplace flexibility and a range of options over the medium term are more important than whether or not one gets paid maternity leave for the very short term, too.
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 this statement is not true Supporter

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    My dad grew up in a single-income household and he had six siblings and they all lived with relative poverty. All clothes were second hand, etc.

    The only reason my own parents got by on one income was my dad had a military officer's salary . But my mom did work some in their younger years because my dad didn't make as much money. Having only two children also helped out alot.
     
  8. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    I look at the insane amount of adjustments society is having to make to accommodate women in the workforce and the only logical conclusion I can reach is that SAHM's should be the norm again. The model we're working with right now plainly isn't successful.
     
  9. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    How is it logical to deny women employment and income? That's oppression and exploitation (relegating women to the sphere of unpaid labour and financial dependence), and there's little "logical" about that.

    Keeping women confined to the home isn't a successful model either. We ought to have the social resilience to find a better way forward.
     
  10. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    We’ve been trying for decades to no avail. The old system where women generally stayed home to raise children resulted in a fairly high success rate and it had the benefit of positioning women in a vocation only they can do.

    I look around society today and it looks to me like people are slowly realizing that our current model just plain doesn’t work.
     
  11. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    Paid leave is good for your mental health and general wellbeing. Considering the price of getting sick - especially in US - it might make sense to follow rest of the world on this.

    Working like a dog until you are disabled, sick or dead is not really noble, smart nor necessary. As least it should not be.
     
  12. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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  13. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    The reason that other countries can pay for people to get paid leave is that they are taxed for a much higher percentage than we are. Most Americans are not prepared to be taxed a lot more.

    I am a hospital nurse. I know what it is like to be worked to death. However, my husband and I opted to sacrifice and I stayed home to raise my kids. We were poor during that time. We did without because our priority was raising our kids. My husband worked long hours and at times two jobs because our family was the priority. We didn't have luxury items like paid tv, the only cell phone was his for work, and other things that most people aren't willing to give up to be at home with your kids. I do not believe that someone else should have had to work so I could stay home and not work. I do not believe that single women should have to work to make sure another woman with a child gets paid leave for a year. I do not believe that men who are supporting their families should have to work so that a woman he is not married to can stay home and not work. I do believe that it a private company has the right to offer this if it is in their best interest to attract the best employees. However, I do not believe that this should be a function of the government nor do I believe it should be paid for with tax money. Save up your money...give up the luxury items, plan your life and control your debt and choose to stay home and pay your own way because you love your family.
     
  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,909
    Anabaptist
    Perhaps needs clarifying.
    "Traditionally" most people of the world care not at all to obey Yahweh nor to believe in Jesus as Messiah, nor to obey Him.

    "Tradition way of things" , of the world, of society at large, is pernicious according to Yahweh's Word, without change so far in the last few thousand years.

    Yahweh's Way, Clearly Detailed in His Word, is ALWAYS BEST.

    Few have been raised as they should be.

    Few know it is possible.

    Few choose to raise their children the way they should be.

    Yet, Extravagantly Graciously, Yahweh Provided ALL THAT IS NEEDED/ REQUIRED FOR THOSE SEEKING HIM, to raise their own children in the way they should. The results are as Yahweh Says, and result in life, in blessing, in salvation, in good lives that will not soon depart from Him. (though everyone still may depart (as most do), as and if they choose the way of the world instead, on the wide popular road, instead of the narrow painful way, instead of the right way, as Yahweh Declares)
     
  15. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    "To no avail"? Looks to me like it's availed plenty. Millions of women educated, gainfully employed. Not dependent on men who could die, leaving them in poverty, or abuse them, trapping them in a violent situation, because they're unable to support themselves.

    Keeping women tied to the kitchen wasn't "successful" from the point of view of those women. And for those for whom that wasn't truly their vocation, telling them they shouldn't be anywhere else constructed a living hell.

    Our current model has problems, sure. But the model you describe isn't so long ago that I haven't heard the lived experience of women who endured it. I am incredibly grateful for our current model compared to what they went through.
     
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  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Anabaptist
    A lot of people look to society one way or another - most or many only looking for their own advantage or benefit, -
    yet not ever realizing that all society is death dealing (pernicious) as written in Scripture.
    Thus, the "current model" just plain has never 'worked', per se, to save anyone, ever.
     
  17. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    Yet it is such a precarious existence. One serious illness and you can go bankrupt, giving birth costs thousands of dollars, higher education is staggeringly expensive, you pay more for your healthcare and get worse results due to all those middle men.

    It is bit peculiar that most Americans are not prepared to pay more taxes but they seem to be just fine paying higher costs for education and healthcare while lobbyists buy politicians and giant corporations take massive profits.

    Then people wonder why there is such a gab between poor and rich with all the social and economic costs that incurs and why middle class is disappearing faster than people on US drone targeting list.
     
  18. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    The US middle class is shrinking, not because they are becoming part of the lower classes but rather they are getting too rich to be considered "middle class" anymore. The number of people in the lower economic classes is not growing.
    Sure The Middle Class Is Shrinking: 30% Of Americans Are Now Too Rich To Be In The Middle Class
     
  19. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Okay...I agree that the ideal is for a family member to stay home and raise the children, I do not remember any Biblical references that say that this is the only Christian way. Can you give to give Biblical references to this? The Proverbs 31 woman has her own business and owns property that is separate from her husband.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  20. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Community college is affordable. Many state colleges are affordable. And scholarships are available. And why would it be right for the person who didn't go to college to have to pay higher taxes so someone else can go to college?

    Yes, there are a lot of situations where a person can be in trouble if they don't save and they live such they are living paycheck to paycheck. Many Americans are not willing to sacrifice their luxury items in order to have a savings or to buy insurance (however, ObamaCare has made private health insurance much more expensive and difficult to get).

    And actually, bankruptcy is a safety net when you do have a catastrophic situation where you can have extraordinary debt erased. When used properly, it is a good thing to have as an option.

    And yes, birth costs a lot. So do children, so don't have them until you can actually afford them. Raising taxes on the people who are raising families does not free up more money or make their lives easier. If you really can't afford your medical costs, you can work with the hospital and they will write off many of them. For the rest, you can work out a payment plan... There are a lot of programs out there to support women who have low to no incomes be able to have healthy prenatal periods and healthy births, as well as follow up care through the first couple of years. It isn't like people are having babies on the streets because the hospitals won't care for them...even if they can't pay.
     
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