• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Am I reading this right?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Yusuf Evans

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2005
10,057
611
Iraq
✟13,443.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
thereselittleflower said:
Since your reasoning above is not according to Catholic teaching, has anything I posted helped you understand our position better?



Peace to all


Please enlighten me where I am wrong with my salvation. Is it simply because I have never gone to a Catholic Church? Or is it that it wasn't a Priest or a RCC member who led me to the Lord? You are already aware of what I have learned in my Chrisitan infancy, therefore, everything I have read in the Bible is incorrect, simply because the words spoken to me were not done by an RCC Priest? Paul was not a priest, he was a disciple, and he spoke to the Gentiles. No, he was not Roman, nor did he call himself one. He was Jew. In fact, he was not one of the 12 disciples that walked with Jesus, did that make him any less? I believe in the Church and that it only can exist if all Christians unite and submit to the Lord, not a man who calls himself Holy Father. There are allot of things I have heard concerning RCC teachings that still confuse me and wonder how they are actually in line with the Biblical teachings. There are also allot of things I don't understand about Protestants either, so the issue of who is right baffles my mind right now.

I don't know what God's plan is for me right now. For now, I will continue my education and continuosly pray to the Lord and build my relationship to one of utmost intimacy. Does that require me to speak to a Priest every so often to absolve sins? I thought if we confess them to the Lord, and truly repent, then we would be forgiven, but I didn't know that there had to be a Third Party in there . Just let me know where I stand in your eyes as a Christian. That's what we all are. We are Christians. The Church maybe called Catholic, but that is not who we follow. We follow the Lord Jesus Christ and his Word.
 
Upvote 0

Naomi4Christ

not a nutter
Site Supporter
Sep 15, 2005
27,973
1,265
✟291,725.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
.

Why has the RCC abused its power throughout the centuries when the results of these abuses are to cause people to leave the RCC?

It's not the individuals that are damning themselves - it's the RCC that is doing it!

Well, that's if you believe that kind of thing...it's only the RCC that is saying that they are sole possessors of salvation - it's not like there is any independent support for this kind of statement.
 
Upvote 0

Naomi4Christ

not a nutter
Site Supporter
Sep 15, 2005
27,973
1,265
✟291,725.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
thereselittleflower said:
You enter a danger zone, and we could not tell you clearly for it depends on what is in your heart . . .


Have you KNOWINGLY and DELIBERATELY REJECTED the teachings which you know to be true?

So if you only knowingly and deliberately reject only the teachings of the RCC that you know not to be true is OK?
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟57,855.00
Faith
Catholic
christianmarine said:
Please enlighten me where I am wrong with my salvation.

I don't think you are understanding what we are saying . . .


Is it simply because I have never gone to a Catholic Church?

We have not said your salvation is dependent on going to a Catholic Church per se . . . it all depends on the truth you know . .

We are held accountable to the truth we know . . .

Do you agree with this?


Or is it that it wasn't a Priest or a RCC member who led me to the Lord?

No . . who leads you to the Lord has nothing to do with it.


You are already aware of what I have learned in my Chrisitan infancy,

Am I?


therefore, everything I have read in the Bible is incorrect, simply because the words spoken to me were not done by an RCC Priest?

I have never said such a thing . . .


Paul was not a priest, he was a disciple, and he spoke to the Gentiles.

He was more than a priest . . he was an APOSTLE . . .

No, he was not Roman,

He was a Roman citizen.


 
Reactions: Yusuf Evans
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟57,855.00
Faith
Catholic
Naomi4Christ said:
So if you only knowingly and deliberately reject only the teachings of the RCC that you know not to be true is OK?

No . . not that you know not to be true, but that you don't know are true.

But here is the grey area . . .

We cannot become complacent . . . Jesus said if we are luke warm He will spew us out of our mouth . . (think of taking swing of awful tasting stuff, and spewing it out . . not a pretty sight) . .

The danger here is becoming complacent and satisfied with where we are in Christ, in our understanding of truth . . . If we are, then we will close our hearts and mind to the truth . . .

If we can overcome our ignorance of the truth and we choose not to, God will hold us accountable . . .

More than that I cannot say . . .



Peace to all
 
Upvote 0

Naomi4Christ

not a nutter
Site Supporter
Sep 15, 2005
27,973
1,265
✟291,725.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
thereselittleflower said:
The danger here is becoming complacent and satisfied with where we are in Christ, in our understanding of truth . . . If we are, then we will close our hearts and mind to the truth . . .

not to mention the danger of being pumped up with pride...
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟57,855.00
Faith
Catholic
Naomi4Christ said:
.

Why has the RCC abused its power throughout the centuries when the results of these abuses are to cause people to leave the RCC?

You seem to be confusing the actions of individuals with Church teaching . . . two different things .. .

It's not the individuals that are damning themselves - it's the RCC that is doing it!

No . . The Church is charged with teaching the truth . . part of that is to warn those who know the truth and deliberately reject as to what will happen . . .


Well, that's if you believe that kind of thing...it's only the RCC that is saying that they are sole possessors of salvation - it's not like there is any independent support for this kind of statement.

You are arguing a straw man . . . there is nothing that says we are the sole possessors of salvation . .


Please listen to what we are saying.



Peace to all
 
Upvote 0

Naomi4Christ

not a nutter
Site Supporter
Sep 15, 2005
27,973
1,265
✟291,725.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
thereselittleflower said:
You seem to be confusing the actions of individuals with Church teaching . . . two different things .. .

Actually, I was thinking of several things: the state of the church at the time of the Reformation which was definitely a church leadership problem; the RCC's reaction to abuses of individual priests which is to protect and cover up rather than to let them face the wrath of the legal system; the unethical stance on contraception (which most members ignore anyway - so much for adhering to church teaching); etc. etc.

You are arguing a straw man . . . there is nothing that says we are the sole possessors of salvation . .

Goody!
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟57,855.00
Faith
Catholic
Naomi4Christ said:
Actually, I was thinking of several things: the state of the church at the time of the Reformation which was definitely a church leadership problem;

An issue of action, not teaching

the RCC's reaction to abuses of individual priests which is to protect and cover up rather than to let them face the wrath of the legal system;

An issue of actions, not teaching . . . and you know, if you study the issue that you are referring to, it is much worse in protestant circles, and the cover up is much greater . . I have knowledge of what I am speaking of, so it really seems like the pot calling the kettle black . . and I really don't know why you want to do this when the topic is not about the actions of individuals, but of Church teaching . .


the unethical stance on contraception (which most members ignore anyway - so much for adhering to church teaching); etc. etc.

Unethical stance.!

I am shaking my head at that one . .


I fully understand the Church's stance on contraception . . . and I support it 100%.

I would say that you either do not understand it, or you have departed from the faith as it was originally taught by your own Church hundreds of years ago . .

Of all the Christian faiths, the Catholic Church is the only one who has not departed from the ancient teaching of the Church on this matter . . the ONLY one. . . .



Are you accusing the Church and all who splinered from Her of being unethical for 1900 years?



Peace to all
 
Reactions: Isaiah 53
Upvote 0

Mea Culpa

Regular Member
Mar 18, 2004
513
59
50
✟53,251.00
Faith
Christian

That is my point though. I am not separated from the Body of Christ if I am not affiliated with the Catholic Church. The body of Christ, whether people want to believe it or not, is the Universal Church, containing ALL those people who both INSIDE and OUTSIDE the Catholic Church have met Christ personally and excepted Him as their Saviour and believed on His name.

I know that this is not excepted by a lot of people, but it is the heart of what I am trying to say and it is the truth. How narrow a view that only those in this one body of believers can be saved, when there are lots of other believers in the world!

A Catholic who walks away from the Catholic Church is no more or less damned then anyone else. It is possible that they finally came to the conclusion that they disagreed with some of its teachings. God would and does understand that, otherwise I could not be saved apart from the Catholic Church.

This is what I meant when I said that the Catholic Church is not the Jews of the New Testament, which Peter taught, and it is not the Gentiles to where Paul felt led to go. The body of Christ is not separated by those things, it is one and huge family of believers regardless of if you except the Catholic teachings or not.

The fact that a believer leaves the Christian Church, and decides that it is all nonesense, is one thing. Only God knows if that person is truly saved or not. It is not for us to judge.

So this also applies to the Catholic Church as well as any other body of believers.
 
Upvote 0
P

Peaceful Dove

Guest

Our Father in Heaven does not cast us into hell. We cast ourselves there.
You ask two questions.
Would he cast you there if you reject the catholic church? No, not if you were truly ignorant of it being the Church that Jesus is the head of.
Would he cast you there if you reject Christ? You would end up in hell, most likely if you knew who Jesus is and then reject him.
I fear greatly for folks who know Jesus is our Redeemer then wander off to Islam or some other religion who is not Christian.

God the Father is also all just.
He cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden, flooded the world and destroyed two cities that were evil.
He is not some wishy washy Father who sets us on the right course and then approves rebellion.

Some of the "ignorance" of the Church that we see, is nothing more than self-serving rebellion. Folks who leave because they want to "feel" the way they think they should.
I know this as a fact because I have taught hundreds who have come back after leaving. Usually they said they were bored. This has more to do with their own shallowness than it does with the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟57,855.00
Faith
Catholic
Naomi4Christ said:
So it's a case of 'do as I say and not as I do'. What a way to teach, eh? No thanks.

Then you better reject Christianity all together for the Apostles are the foundation upon which the Church is built, and Peter is guilty of "do what I say, not as I do" . . .


Your logic for rejecting the Catholic Church does not hold up . . .


You are going to have to reject every single Christian faith group then on the same basis, or you will be guilty of holding us to a double standard, which is a form of a lie. . . .


Do you see this?



Peace to all
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.