Am I a bad person because I don't believe in eternal hell?

[Shrewd Manager]

The same Science people trust when they buy a car or buy a home or when they go to their doctor.

No it's different. One is tried and tested in an experimental environment, the other is just theory and modelling based on assumptions.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I wish I'd listened more to my dad.

My dad use to laugh and think it was poetic justice that my son put me through what I had put my dad through

 

[Shrewd Manager]

This is why we have the Hubble and simple trigonometry that the GPS is based on.

There's no way to determine stellar distances. And yes, just fake CGI images. All those pretty pictures you see are just Hollywood.

We have reason to believe that the rate of expansion has been consistent from the beginning.

No, it's just modelling based on a load of speculative assumptions.

If we are not star stuff then just where do the elements come from that we are made of?

Aren't you Christian? We're made of earth, the spirit/ wind gives us life and Jesus baptises with fire, the church with water. Sorry no plutonium in the mix.

we have a spectrograph so we can look at any star and we know exactly what elements they are composed of.

I used to believe all this garbage as well. They're just illusionist tricks like stage magicians do. Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No it's different. One is tried and tested in an experimental environment, the other is just theory and modelling based on assumptions.

Ok, let me see if I have this right. You think that Neil DeGrasse Tyson's "Astrophysics for People in a Hurry" is more science fiction then science? People do need to stand the test of time. We see a lot of this in medicine. The infant mortality rate use to be very high because the doctors did not clean their hand. Even now doctors and their perscription drugs are considered to be the fourth leading cause of death. That maybe even higher with the wide spread use of Fentanyl now a days. Dr Ornish has produced substantial evidence that a lot of sickness and disease can be eliminated though diet and exercise. But people continue to eat the food that causes so much sickness today.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

But you're right that the line is difficult to draw. Chemistry is useful, it works, but it's root is alchemy and black magic. So there's a point at which it crosses the line from natural science into witchcraft and the supernatural.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Ok, let me see if I have this right. You think that Neil DeGrasse Tyson's "Astrophysics for People in a Hurry" is more science fiction then science?

Correct.

The infant mortality rate use to be very high because the doctors did not clean their hand. Even now doctors and their perscription drugs are considered to be the fourth leading cause of death.

Yep, some legitimate improvements, some illusory ones. Wheat and tares.

lot of sickness and disease can be eliminated though diet and exercise. But people continue to eat the food that causes so much sickness today.

I'd say that's not a new idea. Question is, what diet and exercise? It's just fad after fad.

Brother it's past my bedtime, be blessed.

 

[joshua 1 9]

We're made of earth

The word earth is different from the word dust. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7) Now of course the "breath of life" is the most important part of this. Still this is the FIRST reference in the Bible to the word dust. The first letter of this word is TET. This represents the goodness of the Earth and points to Heaven and Earth. Just as Tyson and Sagan tells us, we are star stuff, we are made up of the same stuff that makes up the entire universe. Even the natural laws here on the Earth are universal and we find those laws everywhere we go in the universe.

Why don't you just listen to this one video. On the first letter in the word dust. It is only four minutes long so even if you can last for 2 minutes and make it half way though the video. Hebrew can be easy. The first time a word is used sets the pace for all the future uses of that word. The first letter in a word sets the meaning of that word.

The word ground in "dust of the ground" is Adamah. They do start to translate this as Earth later on in Genesis. But for now our focus is on the word "dust". The first letter in the word dust. Because that well set the tone for the entire statement of "dust of the ground". The dust has to do with the elements and the ground or Adamah has to do more with the generations and how the populates of the earth evolved. For now it is enough just to understand the meaning of the first letter of these two words. These are words you could write a whole book about and you would just be getting started in your understanding.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Question is, what diet and exercise?

Ornish has put a lot of research into his program. The main result is the people that follow his program usually do not end up needing surgery. The insurance companies love it because it saves them money over the years. He was working with people that had heart attacks to prevent having further problems. They gave found that his program works for other issues also, like cancer.

His program follows the teaching of Moses but it is very difficult to figure out just what a Bible diet is.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Chemistry is useful, it works, but it's root is alchemy and black magic.

That was the whole point is that Abraham was called to come out from among them and separate yourself. We are called to follow him in that. We have the Holy Spirit so we have the ability to be able to discern right from wrong or error.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

The word earth is different from the word dust. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7) Now of course the "breath of life" is the most important part of this. Still this is the FIRST reference in the Bible to the word dust. The first letter of this word is TET. This represents the goodness of the Earth and points to Heaven and Earth. Just as Tyson and Sagan tells us, we are star stuff, we are made up of the same stuff that makes up the entire universe. Even the natural laws here on the Earth are universal and we find those laws everywhere we go in the universe.

Why don't you just listen to this one video. On the first letter in the word dust. It is only four minutes long so even if you can last for 2 minutes and make it half way though the video. Hebrew can be easy. The first time a word is used sets the pace for all the future uses of that word. The first letter in a word sets the meaning of that word.

The word ground in "dust of the ground" is Adamah. They do start to translate this as Earth later on in Genesis. But for now our focus is on the word "dust". The first letter in the word dust. Because that well set the tone for the entire statement of "dust of the ground". The dust has to do with the elements and the ground or Adamah has to do more with the generations and how the populates of the earth evolved. For now it is enough just to understand the meaning of the first letter of these two words. These are words you could write a whole book about and you would just be getting started in your understanding.

Yes, the Hebrew language is hardcore. Some interesting speculations in that vid. I've seen a few of his, informative. I'm still stuck on zayin, sadly.

Have you seen Eriktology, he's a Yank who's self-taught in Hebrew but just fantastic teachings, his alef beit series is highly rated by all who watch it: Film

Still, what your rabbi won't tell you is re the 'eth' or aleph tav word that occurs twice in Gen 1:1 and throughout the Tanakh is the alpha and omega, it's Jesus there at the beginning, the strength of the covenant, the plan and its fulfillment. St John at the start of his gospel brings the Hebrew and Greek traditions together by his reference to the divine word Eth as the Logos. Jews looking for a sign, Greeks looking for wisdom - St John says 'Here's your answer boys - it's Jesus the Christ.' Minds blown all over the place as revelation opens the way the truth and the life.

So are we going to spend the rest of our lives poring over the gematria of the Torah, or actually cephering/ deciphering truth from lies? The Bible tells us that Babylonian sorceries deceive the world. Real science can be distinguished on the basis of the use of a rigorous method (observable, repeatable etc).

Your local A-grade scientists are only as good as the assumptions they build from. If nobody questions those assumptions (like earth as a spinning ball in space), then they're just building a house of cards, albeit with the best intentions.

How did you go with the link to the undead Challenger astronots, by the way? Pretty coincidental to find six people who look just like them with the same or similar names, and in the right age bracket, don't you think?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Still, what your rabbi won't tell you is re the 'eth' or aleph tav word that occurs twice in Gen 1:1 and throughout the Tanakh is the alpha and omega, it's Jesus there at the beginning, the strength of the covenant, the plan and its fulfillment.

The first word in the Bible "Beginning" begins with BE and this represents the word Ben or Son. The First Letter in the Bible B represents a dwelling or the indwelling (incarnation of Christ) So the very first letter represents Jesus the Son of God. The Rabbi does question why the Bible does not begin with an A that would represent God. Jesus is in every letter and ever word of the Torah. Even if they were aware of that they only know the Lion of Judah. They do not know the Lamb of God. At least they will not make a public confession regarding this. It could be they are closet believers.

"2Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep." They say there is a GAP between verse one and verse two because the Bible begins with the Earth in a state of ruin and in need of being replenished (filled and subdued).

deciphering truth from lies?

If you want to be a child of Abraham then you are going to have to sort though and separate the truth from the lies or errors. We simply can not do that without the Holy Spirit of God. Even when God preserved our Bible there is still a huge amount of error in translation and interpretation. So from the very beginning we need the Holy Spirit to be our Teacher and our Guide. This is why I just stick to learning the meaning of the Hebrew letters. I have his books here where he tries to explain sound or light and trying to figure out what he is talking about is more trouble then it is worth. I studied the physics of light in college so I do know a little bit about that.

Your local A-grade scientists are only as good as the assumptions they build from.

The entire universe is an object lesson to be learned from. The only thing that bothers me about science is that they have a very bad track record for getting it right. Yet they currently seem to think that they have it right. They just can not seem to process the dissimulation. They do not even like having it pointed out to them and they usually get angry.

 

[FireDragon76]

To hear some folks talk, one would think that I am committing a terrible sin by not believing that hell lasts forever.

I don't get that, so you aren't the only one.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

he Rabbi does question why the Bible does not begin with an A that would represent God.

Agreed. The aleph is the silent one, the idea/ plan/ concept, whereas beth or ben is its container, the house or son. The alef beit itself tells many stories. I'm only familiar with a few. Really gives some new insight don't it? Wish I had more time to study up. As I said, check out Eric Bissell's stuff.

They say there is a GAP between verse one and verse two

Guessing you'd be a gap theory subscriber, gotta find those billions and trillions somewhere I guess.

there is still a huge amount of error in translation and interpretation. So from the very beginning we need the Holy Spirit to be our Teacher and our Guide.

There sure is and we sure do. But we need to test the spirits and examine ourselves too. It's easy to get puffed up with a bit of knowledge, but that leads into pride and blindness. Pharisee leaven.

This is why I just stick to learning the meaning of the Hebrew letters.

Watch Eriktology - he does 2 hours per letter.

The only thing that bothers me about science is that they have a very bad track record for getting it right.

Sure, I can put you on to a range of declassified military and nasa technical white papers for designs of ballistics and flight control systems that all state they rely on a flat non-rotating earth as a key assumption. I can put you on to all manner of data gathered by engineers, surveyors, pilots, navigators, radar operators, gunners and so on - guys whose professions depend on highly accurate long range geographical calcs. Plus observational results showing definitively that ball earth predictions are wrong. So they can't both be right.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Guessing you'd be a gap theory subscriber

The GAP is a two second theory. No work has gone into it and there is nothing of any substance.

I can put you on to all manner of data gathered by engineers, surveyors, pilots, navigators, radar operators, gunners

Gunners of gamers? I do not understand what they did to my son. The councilors kept giving him math classes and then it turns out that he did not need all of those classes to get a degree in computer engineering. So he is just going to get a minor in math. It would be kind of nice though because he can go anywhere and do anything with a math degree.

Lockheed Martin was looking for someone to write a program for one of their new sensors. After the trouble Boeing has been having my son would not go anywhere near that job.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Gunners of gamers?

Probably not much difference these days.

So he is just going to get a minor in math. It would be kind of nice though because he can go anywhere and do anything with a math degree.

Might find a cushy academic job. Never know, he could find himself working alongside a former Challenger actornaut.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Probably not much difference these days.



Might find a cushy academic job. Never know, he could find himself working alongside a former Challenger actornaut.

They can go anywhere with a degree in math. Just about everyone needs someone to crunch numbers for them. He is working on a project for NASA with a group from his school. They want them to build a robot that will dig into the soil on one of the planets to get soil samples. His cousin wants to get him a job with the veterans hospital to make arms and legs or stuff for the paralyzed vets. He is happy and content to work in the factory to set up the robotic assembly lines. There is a lot of work for people that have an education.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

They can go anywhere with a degree in math. Just about everyone needs someone to crunch numbers for them. He is working on a project for NASA with a group from his school. They want them to build a robot that will dig into the soil on one of the planets to get soil samples. His cousin wants to get him a job with the veterans hospital to make arms and legs or stuff for the paralyzed vets. He is happy and content to work in the factory to set up the robotic assembly lines. There is a lot of work for people that have an education.

The vets hospital job sounds like a good one. Nobody's going to 'the planets' except in gamer zone. Remember that moonrock fiasco, turned out to be petrified wood.

By the way, are you familiar with the 'gospel in chairs'? It's a nice little presentation imho. Your pic reminds me of it.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The vets hospital job sounds like a good one.

That would be an interesting job. When he was in high school he wanted to take a 3D printer class at the university. At the time they were just beginning to use the 3D printers for prosthetic artificial limbs. There was a schedule conflict though. I got on the phone and started making phone calls to try to resolve the issue. As it turned out the high school bought a printer and added the class so he was able to sign up for it. As it turned out they spent most of their time working bugs out of the system. Although that is a lot of what he is going to end up doing, getting the bugs worked out of the system.

 

[Oldmantook]

If I post anything which you do not understand ask me to clarify and I will.

I could be wrong but I assumed you are Reformed in your belief. So to clarify, can a genuine, regenerated believer who lives a life of habitual sin, lose or forfeit his salvation so as to no longer be saved? Secondly, if he genuinely repents and turns away from his sinning ways, can God forgive him and can he be restored to salvation?
Just to be clear, I believe someone can be a genuine believer but lose/forfeit his salvation via no longer believing or through chronic disobedience, but if he genuinely repents and returns to God, He is able to forgive.

Jesus used real life occurrences/situations. In real life situations Jesus does not give the participants the words to speak. And that is how Jesus' 1st century audience would have understood the parable.
The father in the parable considered his son dead while he was absent.
Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again;

I disagree that parables are real accounts. They are realistically portrayed but fictional accounts used to teach spiritual truths to hearts that are willing to hear while hiding spiritual truths from hearts that are hardened. However, even if I took your position that the parable was a real life occurrence, that view in my opinion would not fit with the test itself. If the father viewed his son as "dead to me," why did he still call him his son? In many cultures today, the son is cut off, not even able to speak with his father again and no longer referred to as a son. V.20 is particularly instructive as it shows the father's attitude/love toward his lost son. The father sees his son from afar off and before his son even says anything, runs to welcome and embrace him? Does that verse describe a father who had spurned and cut off his son - considering him to be dead? It sure does not paint the picture of that kind of father to me. For those reasons, I cannot accept your interpretation.

And that is why we have a plethora of different denominations all claiming that only they have the correct interpretation of scripture and they are right and everyone else is wrong, e.g. LDS, JW, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC

Indeed, because they did not listen to the infallible Spirit but instead followed the teachings of fallible men.

Moving the goalposts. That is not what you said initially. Do you think that is the way formerly pagan Christians would have understood Paul's use of the word brethren in Acts and in other verses when he was writing to the churches?

I said initially that Paul never addressed unbelievers and there is no reason to believe that he addresses unbelievers in Rom 8:13. An author chooses the audience he is writing to. Unlike speakers before a live audience over which he has no control as to who is present, the author has the prerogative to direct his specific message to the specific audience of his choice. Therefore, tt is incumbent of readers of Paul's letters to the churches to understand whom Paul chose as his audience and what he wrote to them.

 

[Der Alte]

I could be wrong but I assumed you are Reformed in your belief. So to clarify, can a genuine, regenerated believer who lives a life of habitual sin, lose or forfeit his salvation so as to no longer be saved? Secondly, if he genuinely repents and turns away from his sinning ways, can God forgive him and can he be restored to salvation?
Just to be clear, I believe someone can be a genuine believer but lose/forfeit his salvation via no longer believing or through chronic disobedience, but if he genuinely repents and returns to God, He is able to forgive.

Up to a point see Romans 1:28.

I disagree that parables are real accounts. They are realistically portrayed but fictional accounts used to teach spiritual truths to hearts that are willing to hear while hiding spiritual truths from hearts that are hardened. However, even if I took your position that the parable was a real life occurrence, that view in my opinion would not fit with the test itself. If the father viewed his son as "dead to me," why did he still call him his son? In many cultures today, the son is cut off, not even able to speak with his father again and no longer referred to as a son. V.20 is particularly instructive as it shows the father's attitude/love toward his lost son. The father sees his son from afar off and before his son even says anything, runs to welcome and embrace him? Does that verse describe a father who had spurned and cut off his son - considering him to be dead? It sure does not paint the picture of that kind of father to me. For those reasons, I cannot accept your interpretation.

I'm not much interested in what you can/cannot accept. In some sense the father believed his son to be dead. He said his son was dead, twice.

Indeed, because they did not listen to the infallible Spirit but instead followed the teachings of fallible men.

That may or may not be true but many have prayed and believe they are guided by the holy spirit.

I said initially that Paul never addressed unbelievers and there is no reason to believe that he addresses unbelievers in Rom 8:13. An author chooses the audience he is writing to. Unlike speakers before a live audience over which he has no control as to who is present, the author has the prerogative to direct his specific message to the specific audience of his choice. Therefore, tt is incumbent of readers of Paul's letters to the churches to understand whom Paul chose as his audience and what he wrote to them.

Of course, Paul chose his audience but in 1st Corinthians Paul addresses them as brethren 28 times but also wrote this to them.

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. ​

That does not sound very brotherly to me.