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Featured Am I a bad person because I don't believe in eternal hell?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Light of the East, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. jcm2000

    jcm2000 New Member

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    Oh I agree, he is the Victor over all, and now has the keys to death, hell and the grave. And all will be made righteous in him and by him. We just often here from a lot of church world,that yesh,he victory but that's only to the extent of the choice of fallen man to accept it. If you don't then tough luck.
     
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  2. jcm2000

    jcm2000 New Member

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    Or you have on the other extreme it's not that it's limited to those who accept it, but to only who he chooses before the foundation of the world not based on any merit of any other kind. If not one of the chosen then burn in hell forever. If you don't agree just live with it lol.
     
  3. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Was God a sociopath when He destroyed entire cities, Sodom, Gomorrah and cities of the plain with fire; old, young, men, women, children, infants? Was God a sociopath when He commanded the Israelites to attack Canaanite cities and kill every living person in them, old, young, men, women, children, infants?
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    He didn't torture them forever. I wouldn't even torture a man eating lion that just ate my first born forever. Gets old after a while. I mean, wouldn't even you get tired of watching Hitler scream and burn after the first couple years?? You've got to have one seriously sadistic streak to want to watch that forever.
     
  5. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog I am a Christian mutt. You can call me Rox

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    Its fortunate that Christians won't have to see any of that.
     
  6. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Where is it written that God will be watching people being punished where ever for however long?
    This assumes that God's feelings, sensibilities etc. are exactly the same as yours? Where do we get to to tell God what is right or wrong?

    Isa 55:8-9
    (8) "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.[YHWH]
    (9) "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right, you don't know about me.
     
  8. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe in that -- most Christians do. The bible says this
    Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    I don't tell God what is right or wrong. However, God gave me a brain and He does expect me to use it. And He has no objection to discussing things with us.

    Isa_1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

    God is love, and He is justice. Burning in hell forever is neither.
     
  9. jcm2000

    jcm2000 New Member

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    God is all knowing, how would he not know. Do you think that he just ignores or forgets that they are there?
     
  10. jcm2000

    jcm2000 New Member

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    And you are right we don't get to dictate what is right or wrong, but that doesn't detract from what he has declared in his word. For he changes not and is not a liar. If he declares and reveals in his word his character, which he has, why should I not expect him to be a certain way.
     
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  11. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    You fancy yourself knowledgeable about the Greek but in spite of that you ignore the Greek grammar or are completely oblivious to it. Rom 8:13 takes the form of 1st class conditional sentences which I suppose I don't have to tell you what that means do I? Thus Rom 8:13 remains problematic for you since the protasis is assumed to be true and the apodosis is likewise true as well. In order to form your doctrine all scripture must be reconciled with your belief since Scripture cannot contradict itself.
    Care to try again and wrestle with the text instead of evading it?
    Moreover, your appeal to Jesus teaching the opposite of Paul is fallacious. Jesus like Paul, taught that a regenerated believer can become spiritually dead because he/she is living according to the flesh. Care to venture a guess? You have a high opinion of your ability so I'll let you take a stab at it first.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  12. Cherrein

    Cherrein New Member

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    I guess it depends on whether you believe in the bible and what it contains. There are multiple scriptures that discuss Hell - eternal. You either believe the bible in its entirety or you don't. You can't take scriptures you agree with and reject those you don't.

    God does not want ANYONE to perish. He wants ALL to CHOOSE HIM who is love and eternal life and all that is good. Those who end up in Hell CHOOSE to REJECT Him and in doing so effectively choose Hell.

    Frankly anywhere where God is not, is Hell.
     
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  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Like a roll of the dice?
    If you win, you go to the right; if you lose you go to the left.
    Eternal bliss to the right, eternal torment to the left.
    A high-stakes game of chance.

    Or, a preselection process.
    The vast majority being preselected to suffer eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape. To what end? A perfect plan with a loving divine purpose? Like what?

    Those of us who THINK we have been preselected for eternal bliss can say it is justice.
    But how would you feel if you were on the other side, or if you were wrong?
    Would it seem like justice then?

    Any last words while the angels bind you hand and foot to be thrown into the blazing fire?
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What does your Bible say?

    Isaiah 66:24
    “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You hit the nail on the head with that comment.
    Shouldn't we EXPECT more from God than the majority of his creation going to a pointless, painful and wasteful eternity?
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That's the Evangelical party line. We need a dose of reality.

    What is the world daily death rate?
    According to the CIA World Factbook (the source of this particular statistic) the crude death rate world wide is 8.37 per 1000 per year. … So, the yearly death rate is 843,673.30. Daily that number becomes 2,309.59.

    Has the whole world been reached with the gospel yet? (and then the end will come)
    It seems not.

    How many in the 2,300+ deaths per day have never so much as even heard the name of Christ? Some of them from families we know personally. When they look to us for hope, what can we tell them? (reread your own post)

    If there is any possibility that we got it wrong about the forever burning hell, wouldn't you want to consider, or at least understand why that might not be so? Or is your belief system dependent on a forever burning hell with no hope of escape?

    Tentmaker – Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe. I Tim. 4:10

    All three positions were represented in the early church. Damnationism, Annihilationism and Universalism. However, the Damnationists gave us our translation of the Bible. What are the chances that it was biased to their doctrine? Compare these three translations. One from the Damnationists and two from Universalists. All three are Bibles, none the less.

    Matthew 25:46 King James Version
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation
    And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

    Matthew 25:46 Rotherham Emphasized Bible
    And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  17. jcm2000

    jcm2000 New Member

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    That in a nutshell is Calvinism. God chose before hand without looking into the future or by any merit who would believe. Only those elect individuals will respond to God irresistible call of Grace. Everyone else will not. Those who are not the few elect then will get bound hand and foot and thrown in the lake of fire. If you ask why to the Calvinists they say it's because those in the lake of fire deserved to be there because they are totally depraved sinners. But they couldn't respond because they were not chosen and are totally depraved,dead in sins as they say. Then in the same breath say God is justified and glorified to do so. Craziness.

    Some of the doctrines to come out of the "church Father's" etc.completely blow my mind. Most people do not even realize this is what they are being taught in their congregations. I know I didn't until I heard someone mention the teachings of Calvinism and I began to research it for my self. When I rejected it, my critics just said to me that I'm questioning God's authority and right to do as he pleases. It's the same accusation you get for rejecting the teachings of ECT.
     
  18. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    So this is how you believe God is love?
     
  19. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    Really? You don't even believe "This IS my Body....this IS my Blood" and you are going to virtue signal about hermeneutics????

    That's laughable.
     
  20. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    No. Because God is love. But the many sociopaths who have lived in this world have made Him out to be like themselves and then insisted that what they are teaching is the truth. Look at what Aquinas said

    "The torment of the damned with bring glory to God and increase the joy of the saints over their salvation."

    Only a sociopath gets joy over the suffering of another individual, even one who has done wrong.
     
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