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Alternate Plans

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Plan A =

    "For the Son of man has come to seek and to save that which is lost."

    Alternate plan b =

    The Son of man is come to seek and to save that which is lost, but alas fails in His mission. Man's will makes it impossible for a successful mission by the unlimited Christ ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  2. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Does Damnationism come to give life, or to steal and kill and destroy?

    Luke 19:10
    For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

    John 10:10
    The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy;
    I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
     
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Steve: It is impossible for the Unlimited Christ to not complete the purpose for which He has appeared as the Saviour of all mankind! He saves the radical all of pas, He saves the malista in exquisite dimensions of excelling glory.

    The Son of God succeeds in every detail
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Plan A =

    "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases....great is Your faithfulness."

    Alternate plan b =

    The steadfast love of the Lord has limited duration...His faithfulness will expire.

    70 X 7 = 490

    491: You have now exhausted all forgiveness credits.
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    1 Cor. 15:22 alternate plan b=

    “For as in Adam some die , so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”

    However

    "There is a nice symmetry in this: Death initially came by a man, and resurrection from death came by a man. Everybody dies in Adam; everybody comes alive in Christ. But we have to wait our turn: Christ is first, then those with him at his Coming, the grand consummation when, after crushing the opposition , he hands over his kingdom to God the Father. He won’t let up until the last enemy is down—and the very last enemy is death! As the psalmist said, “He laid them low, one and all; he walked all over them.” When Scripture says that “he walked all over them,” it’s obvious that he couldn’t at the same time be walked on. When everything and everyone is finally under God’s rule, the Son will step down, taking his place with everyone else, showing that God’s rule is absolutely comprehensive— a perfect ending! -The Message-
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    "For by Him everybody and everything were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—everybody and everything have been created through Him and for Him. He is before everybody and everything, and in Him everybody and everything is held together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everybody and everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile everybody and everything to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, everybody and everything on earth or in heaven."
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    alternate plan b=

    God would like to be your Saviour, however, your little will overshadows the Will of all wills. Command and teach this.

    Superior Plan A =

    "To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially of those who believe, and here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, who is the Saviour of all mankind, and especially of believers. Command and teach this."
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    alternate plan b=

    I have come to try and save that which is lost, I tried and tried but alas have failed?

    Superior Plan A =

    "I have come to seek and to save that which is lost."

    Good News =

    The unlimited Christ loses nothing. He completes His mission completely!
     
  9. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to quoting selective verses out-of-context.
    For example

    Psalms 14:1 There is no God.
    Psalms 53:1 There is no God
    You might try looking up the subjunctive mood in Greek. The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The stated action may or may not happen. If Jesus had intended to say "shall have life" in Jn 10:10, He would have said εχει/exei in the indicative mood, not εχωσιν/exosin in the subjunctive mood, in Jn 10:10, as He did in Jon 6:54
    John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath [εχει] eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. .
    But I know that UR-ites are not interested in such unimportant things like tense, voice and mood.
    Working with Greek workers in Germany in '59 one of the first Greek words I learned was εχει.
     
  10. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    You are correct "The unlimited Christ loses nothing" but He does tell many "depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you." I have yet to find a verse where Christ says to them, "Forget about what I said before I now know you."
    Jesus taught e.g.,

    • “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:Matthew 25:41
    • "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
    • "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
    • "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
    • “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.Matthew 18:6
    • “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Matthew 7:23
    • “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24
    • “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
    …..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
    …..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.
     
  11. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Let us read this in context, which has been deliberately omitted.
    "To this end we [believers] labor and strive, because we [believers] have set our [believers] hope on the living God."
    Here is another verse from the same chapter.

    1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
    Why didn't Paul say "continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and all mankind?" Paul did not say that, he mentioned only those that would hear Timothy.
    Here are more verses written by Paul

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall ]not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
    Do you suppose that when Paul wrote to Timothy he forgot what he wrote to Corinth, Ephesus and Galatia? Or vice versa when he wrote to Corinth, Ephesus and Galatia he forgot what he wrote to Timothy?


     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    How many ways can our translators translate 1 Tim. 4:10 ? ? ?

    1 Timothy 4:10 - Bible Gateway

    Questions:

    What does especially mean?

    Does especially mean only?

    "This is what we work so hard for! This is why we are constantly struggling: because we have an assured hope fixed upon a living God who is the Savior of all humankind—especially all of us who believe."
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Alternate plan b =

    Behold I the Author & Finisher would like to make all things new, but alas, I have exhausted My power & patience.

    Superior Plan A =

    "Behold I make ALL things new."

    My love is unrelentless, My patience is off the charts, My Plan reaches My conclusion. I complete what I have begun!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  14. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    A textbook example of out-of-context proof testing to support a false premise. Let us review that bugaboo "context."
    Who said "Behold I make all things new?" The one seated on the throne speaking to John.

    Revelation 21:4-8
    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
    8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
    This is one continuous narrative
    Verse 4 "no more death"
    Verse 5. "I make all things new."
    Verse 7. If there were no conditions the one on the throne would not have stated any but he did, the converse of these conditions is "he that does NOT overcome shall NOT inherit all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son."
    Verse 8. Although the one on the throne said "no more death" and "I make all things new" after that in vs. 8, eight groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death.
    I would like to see how you spin this.
     
  15. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Superior Plan A =

    "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    Alternate plan b =

    I am not persuaded that there is not something than can separate us from the love of God.
     
  16. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Spam. Not discussion.
    Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


     
  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Superior Plan A =

    "My trust is in the tender mercy of God for ever and ever."

    Alternate plan b =

    I fail to grasp the tender mercy of God which cannot extend for ever and ever.
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Man's Gospel =

    If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw a small portion of mankind unto me. (The rest I will torment forever)

    The gospel of Jesus Christ

    "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all mankind to Myself.”
     
  19. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    This is one of the main reasons UR is false. Both these posts are a blatant misrepresentation of anything taught by any Christian group. Truthful representations would be much better.
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Glorious Plan of All Plans =

    "He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."

    The less than stellar plan b =

    We do not grasp the secret of His will & refuse to believe He can bring to pass what He has designed. We actually do not know if His power is of such magnitude.

    "Jesus came to raise the dead. He did not come to teach the teachable; He did not come to improve the improvable; He did not come to reform the reformable."
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
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