LDS Alright then, Mormons, let's have it out

[He is the way]

Are you serious? Who is doing good works? And without even showing how Mormonism outdoes or corrects whatever Christianity is supposedly not doing in this area? Okay...

In general:

"The Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of health care services in the world. It has around 18,000 clinics, 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs, and 5,500 hospitals, with 65 percent of them located in developing countries." (from Catholic Church and health care - Wikipedia)

The Roman Catholic Church also runs 1,358 institutes of higher education (colleges and universities) around the world.

And of course the Roman Catholic Church is just the largest single church in the world. Many, many Protestant-led organizations focused on international and domestic aid, child development, homelessness, the prison population, etc. also exist, either directly tied to specific churches like Lutheran World Relief or the United Methodist Committee on Relief also exist, or not tied to particular churches, like the YMCA. There are also of course those organizations that are known primarily for their outreach/community aid, like the Salvation Army.

On a more local level, here is what I get when I search Google for shelters (not even putting in "Christian" or "religious" or anything, just "shelters"):

GODMOVESINC
Salvation Army
Family Promise (from their website: "Each evening, Family Promise transports the families to the host congregation for that week. At the church or temple each family is provided a private room with bedding as well as daily dinners and breakfasts all provided by volunteers")
Union Gospel Mission
Loaves & Fishes Jail Visitation
Mercy Housing (connected with the Sisters of Mercy RC religious order)
4th & Hope (grew out of Yolo Wayfarer Center Christian Mission, est. 1985)
St. John's Program for Real Change

etc. etc. (that's just the explicitly religiously-based options found on the first of 10+ pages of results; many of the other options were animal shelters and the like)

It should be noted that my area is the 19th 'least churched' area in the United States according to a recent survey by Barna, so other locations are bound to have many more religiously-based options for services.

At the level of my specific Church (so, talking about the Coptic Orthodox Church in particular), the diocese into which I was received (in New Mexico, so it was part of the Southern United States Diocese) runs the following social service programs:

- Archangel Raphael Ministry (A.R.M.), "designed specifically for individuals with special needs---our brothers, sisters, children, and their families dealing with these challenges. Individuals with special needs include many challenges, but not limited to persons with Autism, Down Syndrome, Rhett's Syndrome, Tourette Syndrome, Turner Syndrome, Chromosomal Disorders, Psycho-Emotional Disorders, Speech Delays, Developmental Disabilities, Intellectual Disabilities, Physical Disabilities, Attention Deficit Disorders, Varying Exceptionalities, and other Exceptional Student Education."
- Family Ministry Program
- Helping Other People Excel (H.O.P.E.) social services program (everything from Covid-19 relief to flood relief to school supplies; the specific projects are dependent on whatever is going on; they do both larger projects aimed at the U.S.A., Egypt, and elsewhere, as well as individual projects, such as medical aid to specific needy individuals, paying for weddings, etc.)
- LEAD Program (leadership program for young adults, 22 and up)
- Orthodox Christian Campus Ministry
- Pre-marital counseling/classes
- St. Clement Coptic Orthodox Christian Academy (pre-K through 7th grade school in Nashville, TN)
- St. Verena Medical Society (medical aid in Bolivia, local aid to the homeless in Houston TX, a yearly health fair at diocese churches providing free flu shots, medical advice from doctors, check ups, etc.)
- St. Verena Resource Ministry (financial, material, employment and other types of assistance)
- A mentoring program
- St. Athanasius Theological Seminary (two locations: Tennessee and Florida)
- Triumphant Christian Church (recovery/addiction services program, includes counseling, retreats, 9th-month rehab services program, etc.)

That's just one diocese of one Church that isn't even particularly big in America (maybe 200 parishes total, and somewhere around a million or so members). Case in point, I can't really speak to the activities going on in northern/central California (where I am now), because we're part of a larger archdiocese of Northern California and the Western United States which actually doesn't have its own bishop, but instead a Papal residence (in Livermore, CA) and a secretary who attends to the needs of resident and visiting clergy (e.g., HG Bishop Angaelos of the UK was here for a retreat back in 2018, around when I first moved to Sacramento). This is not the way that things should be, traditionally, with such large swaths of the world 'directly' under the aegis of the Coptic Orthodox Pope (except, y'know...not directly, since he lives in Egypt), but this also a very small area, in terms of its number of churches and communities...sure, it's an archdiocese, but more so because of the massive territory it covers rather than the large number of people or individual churches or communities it houses (basically all of the western half of the USA outside of Southern California and Hawaii, from Northern California/Oregon/Washington on one end to UT/ID/MT on the other, with not even 20 parishes and communities between them; for comparison, the Southern United States diocese contains 55 individual churches and 40 communities spread from Arizona to Florida). So the fact that we're fielding anything (which we do, generally at the parish level) is practically a miracle.

And of course other churches which may be better integrated/larger/older in the USA, like those of the Greeks and Russians, have their own histories, programs, outreach, etc. This post is probably long enough as it is. The take home point is: at the level of manifesting good works so as to glory our Father Who is in heaven, I really don't see how this charge can seriously be made against Christianity, and by Mormonism of all other religions. You run a huge missionary program dedicated to propagating Mormonism (naturally), and a relatively small everything else (a few BYU campuses around the world and online, right?), and things like "bishop's storehouses" or whatever they're called are run on the same 'worthiness' model that trips you up in practicing spiritual gate-keeping to your secret temples and such. Meanwhile, in Christianity, the ethos is "freely you have received, freely give" (Matthew 10:8).

Since you have not made it obvious despite being told to in the OP, I'll ask you directly: on what basis do you claim that Mormonism does any of this 'better' or more than any actual Christian churches, or Christianity more generally? Because you raise more money via for-profit ventures, an exceedingly tiny fraction of which goes to various forms of outreach?

According to Deseret News, the LDS charities have given an estimated $2.2 billion since 1985...which sounds super impressive, until you remember that the LDS church has quietly amassed $100 billion in its recently-revealed investment fund, meaning that 2.2% of that has been given, but over the last 35 years...that's about $63 million a year, which is peanuts to an organization that receives $7 billion per year in tithing -- 63 million divided by 7 billion is 0.009 (seriously; look it up). As a percentage, that's 0.9%, or just under 1%.

0.9%.

Over 35 years.

WHAT THE SERIOUS HECK, MORMONISM?!?!

Meanwhile, about 10 million tithers across the churches which reported donate approximately $50 billion yearly to churches and non-profits. (source)

Hmm...$50 billion per year vs. $2.2 billion over 35 years.

No wonder you guys are so secretive about your finances!

Some of our food donations are done through the Catholic Church. Many of our members also donate their time to preparing food and serving it as well as cleaning up afterwards at Catholic venues. Latter-day Saint Charities is not the only source of charity given by members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It is just one of the ways we donate. In addition to Latter-day Saint Charities we also donate millions of pounds of food through our welfare program where people donate their time and effort to providing food for those in need. The Deseret Industries provide jobs and job assistance. The fast offering program supplies money for people in need whether they are members or not. How much of that $50 billion from your source "About 10 million tithers in the US donate $50 billion yearly to church & non-profits." goes to charity? This also includes tithes from members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints as the statistics include ALL churches in the United States. Church And Religious Charitable Giving Statistics | Nonprofits Source

 

[TasteForTruth]

IOT IS THE BATTLE THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FROM DAY ONE---SO---AS THE OP SAID---HAVE AT US.

LOL, I fight a different battle. So, pass.

 

[Jamesone5]

This is the purpose of the thread, per your OP:



That's what the words you just now quoted refer to. The topic of discussion is the battle you have invited members of the LDS church to wage on your beliefs.

you are just another Mormon who is trying to speak for me.

Chips fall where they may---you Mormons can respond or you do not --I really do not care but when you do I will respond back.

I have not "invited" anyone.

 

[dzheremi]

Some of our food donations are done through the Catholic Church. Many of our members also donate their time to preparing food and serving it as well as cleaning up afterwards at Catholic venues. Latter-day Saint Charities is not the only source of charity given by members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It is just one of the ways we donate. In addition to Latter-day Saint Charities we also donate millions of pounds of food through our welfare program where people donate their time and effort to providing food for those in need. The Deseret Industries provide jobs and job assistance. The fast offering program supplies money for people in need whether they are members or not. How much of that $50 billion from your source "About 10 million tithers in the US donate $50 billion yearly to church & non-profits." goes to charity? This also includes tithes from members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints as the statistics include ALL churches in the United States. Church And Religious Charitable Giving Statistics | Nonprofits Source

So, in other words, you don't actually have any grounds to say that others don't do good works (what you had originally insinuated), or that Mormonism even does it better (what I actually asked for), it's just something that you also do?

That's fine, but it's not a criticism of Christianity, then. Again, it's $50 billion given yearly versus $2.2 billion given over 35 years (~$63 million a year).

Unless you have other statistics about LDS giving that somehow prove you are doing more than Christians do, this cannot be a point in your favor.

 

[TasteForTruth]

you are just another Mormon who is trying to speak for me.

Chips fall where they may---you Mormons can respond or you do not --I really do not care but when you do I will respond back.

I have not "invited" anyone.

OK.

 

[Ironhold]

So, in other words, you don't actually have any grounds to say that others don't do good works (what you had originally insinuated), or that Mormonism even does it better (what I actually asked for), it's just something that you also do?

That's fine, but it's not a criticism of Christianity, then. Again, it's $50 billion given yearly versus $2.2 billion given over 35 years (~$63 million a year).

Unless you have other statistics about LDS giving that somehow prove you are doing more than Christians do, this cannot be a point in your favor.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I personally have encountered members of mainstream Christian denominations who literally preach "Just express faith in God, ask him to save you, and you're saved. You need do nothing more.".

Just say a prayer, feel content that you've got a one-way ticket to Heaven, and off you go. That's it. If such a person sins or backslides? "Oh, they were never really saved to begin with."

I've seen this mindset used to justify people doing all sorts of things that anyone who truly calls upon the name of Christ would recognize as sin and wickedness, but because these people believed that their prayer was a one-way ticket they expect to be going to Heaven anyway.

In fact, the so-called "Christian Counter-Cult" has proven itself to be a worse hub of skive and villainy that Mos Eisley. Once people started doing background checks of many of the more prominent figures the skeletons started piling up like an awful horror movie.

I bring this all up because I've seen some of these same people declare that our charitable giving counts as a "work" - even when we donate directly to food banks and the like - and that they therefore conclude we're trying to buy our way into Heaven.

How does this sit with all of you?

 

[He is the way]

Everyone -- what makes you think they don't?---by everyone--I do mean Christians. They just don't go around making a big deal of their good works to rack up points with God or man.

It is our duty to do the works to glorify God.

 

[He is the way]

So, in other words, you don't actually have any grounds to say that others don't do good works (what you had originally insinuated), or that Mormonism even does it better (what I actually asked for), it's just something that you also do?

That's fine, but it's not a criticism of Christianity, then. Again, it's $50 billion given yearly versus $2.2 billion given over 35 years (~$63 million a year).

Unless you have other statistics about LDS giving that somehow prove you are doing more than Christians do, this cannot be a point in your favor.

I did not say Christians are not charitable or that they do not do good works, and that is not what I insinuated either. Neither did you answer my question.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is our duty to do the works to glorify God.

yah---it's ours too. And?

 

[truefiction1]

I have been over many of the scriptures that are ignored. Here is one of them:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

How many are doing this?

How many are doing this? Many more Christians than Mormons. Perhaps you could start someplace such as here (and these are only a few of the believers that we know of. How many are not even accounted for?)

 

[dzheremi]

I did not say Christians are not charitable or that they do not do good works, and that is not what I insinuated either. Neither did you answer my question.

I don't run that monitoring organization so I don't know why you think I would have such a detailed breakdown. It reports that $50 billion is given yearly to church & non-profits, so I assume that this means that $50 billion is given yearly to church & non-profits. If you have any reasonable objection to this, I'd like to hear it.

By the way, since this is the way you've chosen to go, you should know that Christians have independently formed organizations such as The Trinity Foundation, which is dedicated to documenting, exposing, and stopping religiously-based fraud in self-styled Christian organizations (primarily televangelists' missions, which makes sense if you've ever...seen or heard of televangelists).

Where can we look to for independent review of Mormon fraud supported by Mormons themselves? Anywhere?

Fraud is a huge problem among Mormons, after all, such that Utah has been labeled the fraud capital of the USA. I know you hate videos because they expose you to truths you don't like and force you to use your brain, but for anyone here who can think and cares about the fact that Mormons are being fleeced (and we all should), here is a presentation on the LDS/MLM connection and related matters that Mormons seem particularly susceptible to being involved in:

Again I will suggest to you that maybe if matters you bring up end up making Mormonism look worse (less transparent, less accepting of responsibility, less responsive, etc.) than Christianity, then they cannot be used as points against Christianity or in favor of Mormonism.

But go ahead, keep digging that hole! I'll keep waiting for any actual point.

 

[dzheremi]

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I personally have encountered members of mainstream Christian denominations who literally preach "Just express faith in God, ask him to save you, and you're saved. You need do nothing more.".

Okay, and what of those of us whose faith does not teach such things? That is to say, the vast majority of Christians in the entire world: all Orthodox, all Catholics, most traditionalist Protestants (things like the traditional Lutheran or Presbyterian confessions cannot reasonably and respectfully be summed up in a sentence like that), etc.

Just say a prayer, feel content that you've got a one-way ticket to Heaven, and off you go. That's it. If such a person sins or backslides? "Oh, they were never really saved to begin with."

And this different than Mormonism's feelings-based 'burning in the bosom' confirmation of itself how, exactly?

I've seen this mindset used to justify people doing all sorts of things that anyone who truly calls upon the name of Christ would recognize as sin and wickedness, but because these people believed that their prayer was a one-way ticket they expect to be going to Heaven anyway.

Those people are playing a dangerous game with their lives and their eternal souls, I would say. Again, what does this have to do with the vast majority of Christians who have ever existed in the entire world? Maybe if the original complaint which inspired me to start this thread was against Revivalist-type Evangelicals I would be more agreeable, but your coreligionist He Is The Way asserted that my Church's (the Orthodox Church) faith should be open to criticism, and I can tell you that we sure as hell don't teach anything like this characterization of modern pop-Evangelicalism in the Coptic Orthodox Church.

So enough with the bait and switch, alright? I don't think anyone here would pretend that addressing the problems of the Hedrickites (about 7,000 people) or some other tiny Mormon sect while ignoring the varieties of Mormonism to which virtually all Mormons in the world belong is really addressing the LDS faith. I'll thank you to apply the same to Christianity and not swap out "I personally know people" in place of what is actually shown to be normative in Christianity.

In fact, the so-called "Christian Counter-Cult" has proven itself to be a worse hub of skive and villainy that Mos Eisley. Once people started doing background checks of many of the more prominent figures the skeletons started piling up like an awful horror movie.

I don't care. If you want to continue to live in a world where The God Makers is still fresh investigative pseudo-expose of your religion because that makes your critics easier to malign and caricature, that's on you. I started this thread because I thought Mormons had something to say that related to the claims that they were making in other places which were inappropriate for those threads. I'm still waiting.

I bring this all up because I've seen some of these same people declare that our charitable giving counts as a "work" - even when we donate directly to food banks and the like - and that they therefore conclude we're trying to buy our way into Heaven.

How does this sit with all of you?

I think you're taking the 'mudslinging' bit in the OP more literally than I had assumed anyone would. My mistake.

Alas, the more of it you throw (and the more of exactly the same type as you always do: "I've personally seen", "Christian counter cult", etc.), the more it stinks up the place and becomes clear that this isn't mud at all...

 

[He is the way]

I don't run that monitoring organization so I don't know why you think I would have such a detailed breakdown. It reports that $50 billion is given yearly to church & non-profits, so I assume that this means that $50 billion is given yearly to church & non-profits. If you have any reasonable objection to this, I'd like to hear it.

By the way, since this is the way you've chosen to go, you should know that Christians have independently formed organizations such as The Trinity Foundation, which is dedicated to documenting, exposing, and stopping religiously-based fraud in self-styled Christian organizations (primarily televangelists' missions, which makes sense if you've ever...seen or heard of televangelists).

Where can we look to for independent review of Mormon fraud supported by Mormons themselves? Anywhere?

Fraud is a huge problem among Mormons, after all, such that Utah has been labeled the fraud capital of the USA. I know you hate videos because they expose you to truths you don't like and force you to use your brain, but for anyone here who can think and cares about the fact that Mormons are being fleeced (and we all should), here is a presentation on the LDS/MLM connection and related matters that Mormons seem particularly susceptible to being involved in:

Again I will suggest to you that maybe if matters you bring up end up making Mormonism look worse (less transparent, less accepting of responsibility, less responsive, etc.) than Christianity, then they cannot be used as points against Christianity or in favor of Mormonism.

But go ahead, keep digging that hole! I'll keep waiting for any actual point.

So $50 billion is collected by all of the churches in the United States and some goes into church buildings, wages, heating, janitorial, electricity, computers, building upkeep, land, charity, etc. However you expect me to believe it all goes to charity. By the way part of that $50 billion is money collected by The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints so that can be deducted from the $50 billion. I don't know how much that would be just for the United States. Your statement that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is worth $100 billion was because the statement made by one person. That may or may not be the truth. It could be based on land, buildings, etc. It is not like other churches don't have these things.

It is sad that Utah is labeled the fraud capital of the United States. Perhaps it is part of the process of removing the tares from the wheat. There are evil people in every church. I don't hate videos because they expose the truth. Many of them are only half true and very biased. I prefer to debate real objective statements than to popularize biased videos. Many Christians believe once saved always saved, but the Bible states:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Ironhold]

Okay, and what of those of us whose faith does not teach such things? That is to say, the vast majority of Christians in the entire world: all Orthodox, all Catholics, most traditionalist Protestants (things like the traditional Lutheran or Presbyterian confessions cannot reasonably and respectfully be summed up in a sentence like that), etc.

So my personal and direct experiences mean nada because you feel that they're not directly applicable to you and yours?

That's what I'm getting.

 

[dzheremi]

So $50 billion is collected by all of the churches in the United States and some goes into church buildings, wages, heating, janitorial, electricity, computers, building upkeep, land, charity, etc. However you expect me to believe it all goes to charity.

Again, no I don't. I expect you to believe that when it says $50 billion is generated yearly for churches and non-profits, that's exactly what it means. You're the one claiming that I'm saying otherwise.

By the way part of that $50 billion is money collected by The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints so that can be deducted from the $50 billion.

Okay...then it's $43 billion versus $7 billion, and everything you've written about where else it could go also applies to the Mormon religion. (Though all of this is included in charitable giving, not separate from it -- i.e., the upkeep of churches is a kind of charitable giving as well; I suspect that they only phrased it this way so that they could contrast it with non-tithe giving by non-churchgoers, which would presumably not be going to or through churches at all, as they do at the link.) So this is just like the last thing you brought up: Not something you do better or that Christianity does not do -- just something you also do, without necessarily indicating that the money would leave the Mormon religion at all! So this is again not something that is unique to or uniquely supportive of Mormonism.

I don't know how much that would be just for the United States. Your statement that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is worth $100 billion was because the statement made by one person. That may or may not be the truth. It could be based on land, buildings, etc. It is not like other churches don't have these things.

That's a lie. It's a $100 billion dollar investment fund. Read the actual article please.

It is sad that Utah is labeled the fraud capital of the United States. Perhaps it is part of the process of removing the tares from the wheat.

Perhaps you're gullible and will believe anything that your lying, manipulative, greedy leaders will tell you, because Mormonism breeds unthinking obedience and servility.

There are evil people in every church.

Not the point.

I don't hate videos because they expose the truth. Many of them are only half true and very biased. I prefer to debate real objective statements than to popularize biased videos.

So you decide what is 'biased' and what isn't based on what you won't watch?

Many Christians believe once saved always saved, but the Bible states

What does this have to do with anything we're talking about? You asked a question about who is doing good works, presuming that this is something Mormonism outshines Christianity in. That has been shown to be spectacularly wrong, so now you move on to something unrelated?

This is a pretty lousy way of debating (or avoiding debating) in a thread I made specifically so that you can air your grievances against my Church. I'm still waiting for you to actually do that, but apparently you cannot stick to the topic once your assumptions about who is or isn't doing what have been shown to be baseless.

Maybe next time you won't make false claims in the first place like you did in the other thread, since you apparently can't back them up with anything.

 

[dzheremi]

So my personal and direct experiences mean nada because you feel that they're not directly applicable to you and yours?

That's what I'm getting.

I'm saying that the plural of anecdote is not data, yes, and that you ought to be mindful of when your own experience contradicts what the vast majority of world Christianity teaches so as to not present your personal experiences as though they say anything about all the people you haven't interacted with and what their churches teach and believe.

To tie it into the thread that inspired me to make this one, if I meet one or one hundred Mormons who believe in Brigham Young's Adam-God theory, does that suddenly make this a teaching of the modern LDS religion? No, right?

If you can recognize that, you can recognize why your way of posting is not effective.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Was expecting more substantive arguments from the lds...

... more popcorn por favor!

 

[K Watt]

Question - how much time does anyone here spend on trying to come up with arguments for why we're all going to hell and all of the other things we get flung at us?

How does that compare to the time spent on fulfilling God's commandments to be upright, to care for those who need it, and be productive members of society?

Seeking truth is important. We are told to be ready to defend our faith. If we think Mormonism is in error, shouldn't we address this and try to find the truth?

 

[Randy777]

Strict obedience to the commandments of LOVE and diligence in seeking God with faith are of paramount importance according to the Bible. It is our duty as followers of Jesus Christ. He will grant salvation to the obedient.

Care to explain this?
Kolob is a star or planet described in the Book of Abraham, a sacred text of the Latter Day Saint movement. The Book of Abraham is traditionally held by several Latter Day Saint denominations as having been translated from an Egyptian papyrus scroll by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement.

What specifically did Joseph smith find wrong with all the churches that he left that faith?

What did he restore?

I myself consider Mormons outside the faith.

I have believed and loved Jesus as far back as my memory goes. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I know Jesus and He knows me. I came to Him by faith.

 

[He is the way]

Again, no I don't. I expect you to believe that when it says $50 billion is generated yearly for churches and non-profits, that's exactly what it means. You're the one claiming that I'm saying otherwise.



Okay...then it's $43 billion versus $7 billion, and everything you've written about where else it could go also applies to the Mormon religion. (Though all of this is included in charitable giving, not separate from it -- i.e., the upkeep of churches is a kind of charitable giving as well; I suspect that they only phrased it this way so that they could contrast it with non-tithe giving by non-churchgoers, which would presumably not be going to or through churches at all, as they do at the link.) So this is just like the last thing you brought up: Not something you do better or that Christianity does not do -- just something you also do, without necessarily indicating that the money would leave the Mormon religion at all! So this is again not something that is unique to or uniquely supportive of Mormonism.



That's a lie. It's a $100 billion dollar investment fund. Read the actual article please.



Perhaps you're gullible and will believe anything that your lying, manipulative, greedy leaders will tell you, because Mormonism breeds unthinking obedience and servility.



Not the point.



So you decide what is 'biased' and what isn't based on what you won't watch?



What does this have to do with anything we're talking about? You asked a question about who is doing good works, presuming that this is something Mormonism outshines Christianity in. That has been shown to be spectacularly wrong, so now you move on to something unrelated?

This is a pretty lousy way of debating (or avoiding debating) in a thread I made specifically so that you can air your grievances against my Church. I'm still waiting for you to actually do that, but apparently you cannot stick to the topic once your assumptions about who is or isn't doing what have been shown to be baseless.

Maybe next time you won't make false claims in the first place like you did in the other thread, since you apparently can't back them up with anything.

In my original post I said: "I have been over many of the scriptures that are ignored. Here is one of them:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

How many are doing this?"

Your posts are really not about glorifying God through works. What works are being done for the purpose of glorifying God?