All things

[Gregory Thompson]

Okay, but can you answer the questions?

That was the answer, the questions were based on a carnal mind and not compatible with God's perspective.

 

[A_Thinker]

Why would God plunge Adam and the whole race into sin and destruction if he loved them?

So that they may emerge ... as God's trophies of grace ???

Ephesians 2

3 God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

[BNR32FAN]

“And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:20–23 (KJV 1900)

What is sin?

 

[BNR32FAN]

He created the outcome or prophecy is impossible.

Prophecy is not impossible with omniscience and omnipresence. Just because I fast forwarded the movie and watched the end doesn’t mean I wrote the entire script.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You can't control your tongue according to James.

“If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭NASB

James doesn’t say we cannot control our tongue.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are missing how dreadfully sinful people are and how deserving of God's wrath they are. If you have even a cursory knowledge of scripture, he sends murderers to murder even his most beloved martyrs.

Amen but we can only be deserving of God’s wrath if we were capable of meeting His expectations. We cannot be held accountable for failing to meet impossible expectations nor can we be held accountable for anything that God has made us do against our free will.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God cannot sin. Free will is a novelty with no support.

“I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart, whom I wished to keep with me, so that on your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel; but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.”
‭‭Philemon‬ ‭1:12-14‬ ‭NASB

Wait did Paul just say that these people could do goodness of their own free will? Yes I believe he did.

 

[Francis Drake]

If God allows sin, do you think it might be because He has a purpose for that sin?

If sin has a valid purpose, why did God kick Satan out of heaven for it?

 

[chad kincham]

always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
— Ephesians 5:20

If God has decreed all things that come to pass, it’s easy to understand how we should give thanks in all things. We may not always understand these things, especially the tragic, but we can still be thankful even through tears and mourning. We know that God’s plan will bring Him glory.

My question is for those who don’t think that God decrees all that comes to pass. How do you give thanks to God in all things if He’s not in charge of all things?

Calvinists don’t like to admit it, but their doctrine that God decrees every single thing that happens, means that God decreed the fall of man into sin, then decreed the penalty of sin is to be damned into everlasting fire, then decreed that 80% or more of mankind is predestined to be lost.

Jesus said most will be lost, and few will be saved - therefore, since the Calvinist God withholds regeneration from the non elect, (so they cannot be made alive spiritually and believe the gospel and be saved), this means God decreed that man would sin and need to be saved, then decreed He would make it impossible for most of mankind to believe, then damn them for eternity for unbelief.

And then there’s the 1/3 of the angels who fell, and are now doomed to be cast into the lake of fire.

In Calvinism, God decreed that a third of the angels would sin, however, unlike His mortal creation that is mostly damned but at least a few are predestined to be saved - God has provided no way of salvation for any of the fallen angels.

How about the fact that God decreed Hitler, decreed a world war with 70 million dead, including 14 million murdered in the Nazi holocaust, including 6 million Jews.

And before that He decreed an American civil war with 600,000 deaths.

But the most ironic thing about Calvinism is, that though their dogma means that every disease, every physical problem such as stroke, cancer or heart problems has been decreed by God, the Calvinist will go to the doctor for treatment, or surgery, or drugs, to fight against God’s will for them to be sick.

But at least they give their version of God thanks, for making them sick.

always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
— Ephesians 5:20

If God has decreed all things that come to pass, it’s easy to understand how we should give thanks in all things. We may not always understand these things, especially the tragic, but we can still be thankful even through tears and mourning. We know that God’s plan will bring Him glory.

My question is for those who don’t think that God decrees all that comes to pass. How do you give thanks to God in all things if He’s not in charge of all things?

 

[All Glory To God]

Calvinists don’t like to admit it, but their doctrine that God decrees every single thing that happens, means that God decreed the fall of man into sin, then decreed the penalty of sin is to be damned into everlasting fire, then decreed that 80% or more of mankind is predestined to be lost.

Jesus said most will be lost, and few will be saved - therefore, since the Calvinist God withholds regeneration from the non elect, (so they cannot be made alive spiritually and believe the gospel and be saved), this means God decreed that man would sin and need to be saved, then decreed He would make it impossible for most of mankind to believe, then damn them for eternity for unbelief.

And then there’s the 1/3 of the angels who fell, and are now doomed to be cast into the lake of fire.

In Calvinism, God decreed that a third of the angels would sin, however, unlike His mortal creation that is mostly damned but at least a few are predestined to be saved - God has provided no way of salvation for any of the fallen angels.

How about the fact that God decreed Hitler, decreed a world war with 70 million dead, including 14 million murdered in the Nazi holocaust, including 6 million Jews.

And before that He decreed an American civil war with 600,000 deaths.

But the most ironic thing about Calvinism is, that though their dogma means that every disease, every physical problem such as stroke, cancer or heart problems has been decreed by God, the Calvinist will go to the doctor for treatment, or surgery, or drugs, to fight against God’s will for them to be sick.

Sir I have read some of your posts and need to ask why are you so miserable?

 

[chad kincham]

The apostles gave thanks for being "worthy of the affliction"

But unlike Calvinism claims, God didn’t afflict them.

Satan does the stealing, killing, destroying, and afflicting, not Jehovah.

 

[chad kincham]

Sir I have read some of your posts and need to ask why are you so miserable?

That’s strange that you call exposing the fact that reformed/Calvinist doctrine is an insult to the nature, and character of God, is somehow being miserable.

 

[All Glory To God]

That’s strange that you call exposing the fact that reformed/Calvinist doctrine is an insult to the nature, and character of God, is somehow being miserable.

Well if you find it insulting that's probably why you come over as a surly character when talking about calvinism, at least to me.

And obviously I would argue the opposite and say the God that does not decree all things is a slander against God's sovereignty, making the sinner author of their own salvation worthy of boasting in the presence of the almighty.

And a liar for that matter, starting off loving all people sending the beloved son to die for everyone but changing his mind and hates them if they do not accept his terms, accepting Christ. Or he is just not immutable and so not eternal, thus just an idol of men.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But unlike Calvinism claims, God didn’t afflict them.

Satan does the stealing, killing, destroying, and afflicting, not Jehovah.

The apostles thanked God for the affliction anyway.

Calvin wasn't born yet.

 

[chad kincham]

Well if you find it insulting that's probably why you come over as a surly character when talking about calvinism, at least to me.

And obviously I would argue the opposite and say the God that does not decree all things is a slander against God's sovereignty, making the sinner author of their own salvation worthy of boasting in the presence of the almighty.

And a liar for that matter, starting off loving all people sending the beloved son to die for everyone but changing his mind and hates them if they do not accept his terms, accepting Christ. Or he is just not immutable and so not eternal, thus just an idol of men.

Thus you continue to propagate the mass of illogic and contradictions, that comprise the fatalistic philosophy of determination that masquerades as doctrine, known as reformed doctrine, aka Calvinism.

 

[Hammster]

Well that was crazy. Had I realized this would have drawn so much attention, I would have started it this evening.

I’m not even sure where to begin. Lol.

 

[A_Thinker]

And obviously I would argue the opposite and say the God that does not decree all things is a slander against God's sovereignty, making the sinner author of their own salvation worthy of boasting in the presence of the almighty.

Obviously, God feels differently, given that He was secure enough to encourage the Israelites to CHOOSE their own fates ...

Deuteronomy 30

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life, so that you and your children may live

20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[A_Thinker]

And a liar for that matter, starting off loving all people sending the beloved son to die for everyone but changing his mind and hates them if they do not accept his terms, accepting Christ. Or he is just not immutable and so not eternal, thus just an idol of men.

Actually, God loved everyone enough that He sent His son to die on a cross for them.

And ... He considers His gift of free will so valuable ... that He won't tread on it ... to force everyone to do what He would prefer ...

 

[BNR32FAN]

If God allows sin, do you think it might be because He has a purpose for that sin?


Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
— James 1:2-3

Sin is definitely a part of His plan although I don’t believe He is the source or author of it, which is why I believe in free will. Free will is the source of sin not God. God has simply determined that man will have free will so that he may choose to love Him or choose to reject Him and I believe that’s precisely why this world exists. To cultivate those who will love and serve God and to separate these from those who will reject Him.

 

[Hammster]

Sin is definitely a part of His plan although I don’t believe He is the source or author of it, which is why I believe in free will. Free will is the source of sin not God. God has simply determined that man will have free will so that he may choose to love Him or choose to reject Him and I believe that’s precisely why this world exists. To cultivate those who will love and serve God and to separate these from those who will reject Him.

I’m not really sure how that addresses the OP, particularly the verse in question.