All things

[zoidar]

Sin is definitely a part of His plan although I don’t believe He is the source or author of it, which is why I believe in free will. Free will is the source of sin not God. God has simply determined that man will have free will so that he may choose to love Him or choose to reject Him and I believe that’s precisely why this world exists. To cultivate those who will love and serve God and to separate these from those who will reject Him.

Can there be sin without a free will? I think is a valid question.

 

[All Glory To God]

Obviously, God feels differently, given that He was secure enough to encourage the Israelites to CHOOSE their own fates ...

Deuteronomy 30

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life, so that you and your children may live

20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So now Moses and Paul seem to be in contradiction to each other if what you say is true.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[All Glory To God]

Thus you continue to propagate the mass of illogic and contradictions, that comprise the fatalistic philosophy of determination that masquerades as doctrine, known as reformed doctrine, aka Calvinism.

Well tell me what they are then. This is one of the main complaints from people criticizing reformed doctrines, that they are dismissed for not understanding correctly and apparently this is what you just did.

 

[All Glory To God]

Actually, God loved everyone enough that He sent His son to die on a cross for them.

And ... He considers His gift of free will so valuable ... that He won't tread on it ... to force everyone to do what He would prefer ...

Started off loving all people but changed when he didn't get his own way and sent the ones he no longer loved to hell for not accepting Christ as their saviour. Or does he love them in hell also?

 

[Dave L]

“I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart, whom I wished to keep with me, so that on your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel; but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.”
‭‭Philemon‬ ‭1:12-14‬ ‭NASB

Wait did Paul just say that these people could do goodness of their own free will? Yes I believe he did.

Free will makes law possible. It just cannot save. Law cannot save. Before the new birth, people are only free to sin. After the new birth, they are not free to practice sin.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

James says people are not free to control their tongues. If free will could save, you would trust in it instead of Christ.

 

[Dave L]

Amen but we can only be deserving of God’s wrath if we were capable of meeting His expectations. We cannot be held accountable for failing to meet impossible expectations nor can we be held accountable for anything that God has made us do against our free will.

God condemned the entire human race in Adam. He flunked the test proving we are a corrupt species.

 

[Dave L]

“If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭NASB

James doesn’t say we cannot control our tongue.

“But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.” James 3:8 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

Prophecy is not impossible with omniscience and omnipresence. Just because I fast forwarded the movie and watched the end doesn’t mean I wrote the entire script.

How can God see anything he did not create? Are you suggesting there is another god?

 

[Dave L]

So that they may emerge ... as God's trophies of grace ???

Ephesians 2

3 God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

But only a chosen few exist for this purpose. The rest glorify his attributes that punish sin.

 

[Dave L]

So, ... you define God per sin ???

I believe that it is more appropriate to define sin ... per God ...

It all results in knowing him in his glory.

 

[Dave L]

The scriptures do not say that God created sin.

God created time, space, and the material world, including beings with the capacity to choose to sin (i.e. think, speak, and act in opposition to God's stated will).

Sin is not a creation. It is a response ... to God's will by creatures with a degree of free-will.

“The LORD hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Proverbs 16:4 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

OK you were "already sinful." That sounds like you committed some sins to me. Did God cause you to commit those "already sinful" sins or are you personally responsible for them? You can't have it both ways.

If you live for ten years from today. You will be doing only what God planned for you to do and this precise moment.

 

[A_Thinker]

So now Moses and Paul seem to be in contradiction to each other if what you say is true.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What I spoke of was the Old Covenant.

You speak of the New Covenant ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Started off loving all people but changed when he didn't get his own way and sent the ones he no longer loved to hell for not accepting Christ as their saviour. Or does he love them in hell also?

Do parents who have to see their children hauled off to prison ... love them, regardless ???

 

[NBB]

If you live for ten years from today. You will be doing only what God planned for you to do and this precise moment.

Yeah sure, God plans to you to fall and sin in the case that happens, and then commands you to repent... that is ridiculous.

 

[Dave L]

Look, if God specifically instructs someone to kill in situation XYZ, that does not fall under the prohibition against murder in the commandments. What is your point?

I have several points. One is if God causes a person to murder another (as depicted in scripture) God is not sinning. God cannot sin.

 

[A_Thinker]

God condemned the entire human race in Adam. He flunked the test proving we are a corrupt species.

But God chose to save us, as many as would be saved ...

 

[A_Thinker]

“The LORD hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Proverbs 16:4 (KJV 1900)

Yes ... God made those who are evil ... and those who are not.

God created both Cain, ... and Abel.

But God didn't send Cain to kill his brother. In fact, He tried to talk him out of it ...

 

[All Glory To God]

Do parents who have to see their children hauled off to prison ... love them, regardless ???

I'm talking about your God, not human relationships. Come on man let's have some real talk, I want to know how you feel about God.

Does God love all people? Sending Christ to die for all giving them a chance to accept him as saviour?

Does you believe some people will go to hell?

Does God love the people in hell?

 

[Dave L]

Yes ... God made those who are evil ... and those who are not.

God created both Cain, ... and Abel.

But God didn't send Cain to kill his brother. In fact, He tried to talk him out of it ...

How about the killing of God's people throughout history? Does it show he does exactly what you say he doesn't do? Does Jesus ring a bell?

“And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Revelation 6:11 (KJV 1900)

Peter? John 21:18–19.

Look at it this way. How would you fare laying around a nursing home wasting your life away? Would you prefer that to Christ blessing you with a martyr's crown? Who did better? Cain or Abel?

 

[Dave L]

But God chose to save us, as many as would be saved ...

As many as he chose to save. The rest glorify his goodness and wrath against sin.