Qoheleth said:
Well, before I didnt care if I sinned or wronged another or myself. Now, I do hate sin, what it does to others and pray for the strength to overcome. I cannot abide sin, mine and others. I do not love sin any longer. Isnt he speaking of the beginnings of the convicting of the heart by the Holy Spirit. I tend to think he is. I dont see where he mentions that we will not sin ever again.
You miss my point, most specifically the part you cut out. We cannot do anything that we do not have the will to do. For example, if you stood at the edge of a cliff, you could theoretically jump off. But, if you do not have the will to do it, ie, there is no desire for what ever reason, it is impossible for you to do so, simply because it will never enter your mind.
So, the fact that you sin is positive proof that you have a will to sin, the desire to sin. The Spiritual part of you, given by God, desires to do right and hates sin, but the will of your flesh desires to do evil and loves sin. That is why you are both saint and sinner, you both hate and love sin.
So are you saying that the change of heart and faith are both works of God?
Indeed.
It seems to me that he is talking about the very first step of conversion in how the Word of God convicts (through and by the Holy Spirit) one of their sinful nature. God initiated this by his life giving word. At the moment the word was received, a measure of faith/belief is apprehended.
I suppose at this point the Holy sprirt in the word can be rejected if we do not remain passive to it.
He states that faith produces a changed heart, which is wrong, one must have a changed heart in order to have faith. This is the very first step of conversion, if you wish to state it so, though it is more correct to say that at once both a changed heart and faith is given.
I dont see where he attributes this to our merit.
Well, I still do not see him stating that repentance saves or is a work, only that it is a part of the process. I recall scripture saying..."Repent, Believe and be baptized..." in more than one place.
The Anabaptists often speak of faith alone, yet they do not truly know what that means. Though he speaks without using the words "works" or "merit", he indeed spouts the same synergistic inventions of the Pope, indeed, even worse than those of the Pope.
Tell me, what is a work? Works are not merely actions, but also decisions. Indeed, Christ makes no distictions between what we want to do and what we do, both are works, either good or evil.
His error is not that he says we must repent, but rather that he makes it a cause of salvation. He explains it thus:
Repentance + Faith + Baptism = Justification
He defines both repentance and baptism as acts required for salvation (I would also contest that he makes faith into a work as well, but I shall excuse that for the moment). With his explainations, these become works.
Faith + Works = Justification
Now the correct way would be this:
Faith = Justification
Or,
Faith = Justification + Works
I will continue this line of thought with the final comment.
Wow, a mockery. I see him saying its necessary which tells me he feels that it must be done as part of a process ordained and commanded. How is that a work or a mockery.
He creates a baptism that is nothing other than something you must do inorder to complete the process of justification. It is not a work of God, but a work of man. Just because he says it was ordained and commanded does not magically make it no longer a work, indeed not, as all good works are works which were ordained and commanded by God. This is indeed a mockery and a perversion of the Sacrament, as he has turned it into Law, when it was instituted as Gospel.
All to often Anabaptists equate the Word to the Bible. So, for them, the only means by which the word may be recieved is through preaching of the Word. Now, Scripture clearly teaches that Baptism saves, so there are two options for them: 1) Baptism is a required work for salvation, 2) Baptism is just a symbol and Scripture is only speaking symbolically here. This man takes the first option.
Both options look at baptism as an act of man for God.
What they do not realize is that the Word may also be recieved through the Sacraments, Baptism being one of them. As Paul said, the Word works through the water. With this understanding, Baptism ceases to be a work of man and is instead a gift of God, whether one comes on their own as an adult or is brought by others as a child. So, through baptism, one becomes regenerate, and recieves faith and the forgiveness of sins.
Believe, repent and be baptized. Im sorry, your order and scriptures order seem to be reversed. What am I missing here?
First thing, don't make the mistake of applying the rules of English to Greek, which does not imply a timeline.
Second, we must look at each particle individually.
Belief/faith: In Scripture this is spoken of in both a negative and positive sense. That is, faith saves and unbelief damns. Therefore, faith is a cause of salvation, it is required in order to be saved.
Unrepentance: This is only spoken of in the negative sense, that is, Scripture never speaks of repentance saving, but instead constantly warns of unrepentance damning.
Baptism: This is always spoken of in the positive sense, ie, "believe and be baptized", "baptism now saves you", etc. Never is it spoken that the lack of baptism damns.
Now, this is how it works:
1.) It is by faith alone, apart from works, that we are saved.
2.) Unrepentance destroys faith, drives out the Holy Spirit, and leads to damnation.
3.) Baptism is a means of grace, through which faith is created/strengthened.
So,
1.) Repentance is not a cause of our salvation, but rather, unrepentance is a cause of our damnation. So, we must be repentant, but it is not this repentance that saves us.
2.) It is not a human act of Baptism that is required for salvation, but rather faith, which is give by God. Baptism is a means through which the Holy Spirit works, and it is the Word that saves, not man's action. Much like one is not saved by hearing a sermon, but rather by the Word working through this in the heart of the hearer.
As such, one may be converted through another means of grace, and therefore be saved before he has the opportunity to be baptized.