Alcoholics and Addicts Discussion/Support Thread

[LoG]

Just another thought on dependency.

If we simply desire to end and addiction, we really don't need God to do that. An atheist, buddhist, or anyone for that matter can use methods to be free from addictions. The common factor in all these methods is usually to shift a person's dependency to something else. AA uses the concept of a "Higher Power".

I've agreed with much of what you have written johnnieboy, however the statement that we don't need God to be relieved from addictions is not scripturally supported. When an atheist, agnostic, or even a buddhist or moslem is also relieved of an obsession to indulge in their addictions, it indicates that the Lord is patient and long-suffering in His desire for us to come to Him. He often plants a seed in these people that may not bear fruit for some time to come or even be visible to any other than Himself. Be careful of judgements as they will sometimes lead to wrong conclusions about the nature of the God we serve.
We tend to walk on thin ice when we don't credit and thank God for being the author of our salvation from the various addictions and dependencies mankind is susceptable to.

 

[AngelDove1]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SOTK....
MAY GOD BLESS YOU WITH A SUPER BLESSED DAY.....

 

[johnnieboy]

I've agreed with much of what you have written johnnieboy, however the statement that we don't need God to be relieved from addictions is not scripturally supported. When an atheist, agnostic, or even a buddhist or moslem is also relieved of an obsession to indulge in their addictions, it indicates that the Lord is patient and long-suffering in His desire for us to come to Him. He often plants a seed in these people that may not bear fruit for some time to come or even be visible to any other than Himself. Be careful of judgements as they will sometimes lead to wrong conclusions about the nature of the God we serve.
We tend to walk on thin ice when we don't credit and thank God for being the author of our salvation from the various addictions and dependencies mankind is susceptable to.

Thank you for your comments,
They are well taken

I just wanted to emphasize the importance of realizing that Christianity is unique in that it is life exchanging experience, exchanging our old life for Christ's new life. I have struggled to "change my behaviour" for so long to no avail, it wasn't until I understood that the change need to come in my thinking. Sometimes Christians manage to discipline themselves to stop addictions by using the strength of the flesh, then end up becoming some of the most critical individuals I have met, simply because of the pride that comes from allowing the flesh to take control. Religious people are good at "cleaning up the outside" as Jesus told the Pharisees, which is why He said "its not what goes into the man that defiles him, but that which comes out of him" . I feel His point was to get religious people to understand that the changes must come from within, the attitudes and thinking, not an outward "cleaning up" that leads to pride.

Have a great day in Christ

 

[JamieGraham]

He said "its not what goes into the man that defiles him, but that which comes out of him" . I feel His point was to get religious people to understand that the changes must come from within, the attitudes and thinking, not an outward "cleaning up" that leads to pride.

This is so very true. Have you ever heard of the term Dry Drunk? This refers to the person that stoppedc drrinking but acts the same way - as if they were still drinking. This is because they =their inner self - have not changed. The drink was just a symptom/result of their thoughts and actions. Usually they will pick up other addictions and will still be ill in nature. Not godly and refuse to acknowledge God. This is a true sign that they have not been saved and are not cured of the desease of alcohol.

And YES - it is very mental and spiritually related. If mind, spirit, emotions, body and soul are out of synch - one seeks to eleviate that pain and inbalance. Many choose alcohol - i did. It did not help. The only thing that ever did was a true devlotion and love for God - myself.

god Bless you...Rev J.

 

[johnnieboy]

Usually they will pick up other addictions and will still be ill in nature.

This is what I did, I would stop drinking, then find other addictions, then stop them and then go back to drinking. I finally got off the rollercoaster when I recognized my identity was truly only that of being a child of God, not an alcoholic or any other "ic"

 

[SOTK]

Thank you for your comments,
They are well taken

I just wanted to emphasize the importance of realizing that Christianity is unique in that it is life exchanging experience, exchanging our old life for Christ's new life. I have struggled to "change my behaviour" for so long to no avail, it wasn't until I understood that the change need to come in my thinking. Sometimes Christians manage to discipline themselves to stop addictions by using the strength of the flesh, then end up becoming some of the most critical individuals I have met, simply because of the pride that comes from allowing the flesh to take control. Religious people are good at "cleaning up the outside" as Jesus told the Pharisees, which is why He said "its not what goes into the man that defiles him, but that which comes out of him" . I feel His point was to get religious people to understand that the changes must come from within, the attitudes and thinking, not an outward "cleaning up" that leads to pride.

Have a great day in Christ

I think Lion of God's point is well taken, however, as a person who believes in the positional truth of our Identity in Christ, I understand where you are coming from as well.

In a nutshell, since Jesus Christ is in us, it is Jesus Christ who works in us. The credit does indeed go to Him because without Him we would still be a slave to our "old self".

I have seen firsthand people overcome this addiction without being a Christian. In other words, I have seen people reach out to God and have seen God change people, however, they still weren't whole. In fact, I would include myself as a person who experienced this. It wasn't until I became a Christian, a Child of God, that I truly found freedom. God gave me the Gift of Faith and it was the Gift of Faith which showed me the truth of God and what He did for me by healing me from the addiction of alcohol and saving me from death. Once I saw this from the mind of a Christian, I completely changed from the inside out. I saw who I truly was in Christ.

God is good. God is omniscient. He can heal, plant seeds, and use places and people to bring us to the truth of Jesus Christ.

 

[cajunlady]

God gave me the Gift of Faith and it was the Gift of Faith which showed me the truth of God and what He did for me by healing me from the addiction of alcohol and saving me from death. Once I saw this from the mind of a Christian, I completely changed from the inside out. I saw who I truly was in Christ.

God is good. God is omniscient. He can heal, plant seeds, and use places and people to bring us to the truth of Jesus Christ.

Doesn't it feel wonderful to be given such a wonderful gift...God is good all the time..Happy Birthday SOTK ..May God bless you..

 

[SOTK]

Yep, God is good indeed! Thanks for the birthday wishes!

 

[AngelDove1]

Yep, God is good indeed! Thanks for the birthday wishes!

Hi there..........
Hope your Birthday was a super one.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY again.

 

[SOTK]

Thanks!

 

[cajunlady]

Just checking in..Hope you all had a great day..God bless..

 

[knucklehead]

Hi all. I'm new here and I'm an alcoholic. I've been in recovery since 1989 after three rehabs and numerous detoxs. I got sober in A.A. and i'm still in the program. I got drunk in 2004, after 15 years of staying sober, drank for three months and have been sober since June 20, 2004.

I know that Jesus could heal me and it would be behind me, but I believe He keeps me in the rooms of A.A. to help other alcoholics. Most alcoholics go to A.A., not to church.At the worst of my drinking, I was furious with God and I blamed him for the pain I was going through. I would not have gone near a church and had a hard time listening to anyone speak of God.

A.A. gets the credit for setting my feet on the path back to God. I believe God keeps me in A.A. so that I can share my story with others who are angry with God or believe they are agnostic. There is some who have a problem with the words " God as we understood Him", but I see no real problem here. Prayer usually sorts this out and they come home to Jesus.

The is a lot of debate in christianity about whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I've proven it to myself that it most definitely is a disease and I will die from it if I do nothing. When I pray, God sends me to A.A.

Jesus had many ways to heal the blind. Maybe this is like that.

 

[ephraimanesti]

The is a lot of debate in christianity about whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I've proven it to myself that it most definitely is a disease and I will die from it if I do nothing. When I pray, God sends me to A.A.

Jesus had many ways to heal the blind. Maybe this is like that.

THIS, MY BROTHER, IS MOST DEFINITELY A TRUE STATEMENT!
Bill W and Dr. Bob were most definitely tools of the Holy Spirit!​

MAY GOD BLESS YOU AND CONTINUE TO KEEP YOU CLEAN AND SOBER!
ephraim

 

[johnnieboy]

Hi all. I'm new here and I'm an alcoholic. I've been in recovery since 1989 after three rehabs and numerous detoxs. I got sober in A.A. and i'm still in the program. I got drunk in 2004, after 15 years of staying sober, drank for three months and have been sober since June 20, 2004.

I know that Jesus could heal me and it would be behind me, but I believe He keeps me in the rooms of A.A. to help other alcoholics. Most alcoholics go to A.A., not to church.At the worst of my drinking, I was furious with God and I blamed him for the pain I was going through. I would not have gone near a church and had a hard time listening to anyone speak of God.

A.A. gets the credit for setting my feet on the path back to God. I believe God keeps me in A.A. so that I can share my story with others who are angry with God or believe they are agnostic. There is some who have a problem with the words " God as we understood Him", but I see no real problem here. Prayer usually sorts this out and they come home to Jesus.

The is a lot of debate in christianity about whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I've proven it to myself that it most definitely is a disease and I will die from it if I do nothing. When I pray, God sends me to A.A.

Jesus had many ways to heal the blind. Maybe this is like that.

I am glad you have had success with A.A. I only caution that if somone is attending AA that they have a good understanding of who they are In Christ. My sister started attending AA and got involved with some of the people that were in the group which led her to believe that all her problems came from church and the Bible. She now says she doesn't believe in the Bible and that she doesn't believe in Christianity. I'm not trying to criticize AA, just cautioning people to understand that it can be dangerous to those who don't place there identity in Christ.

check out my previous post on identity truths
http://www.christianforums.com/t186...ddicts-discussion-support-thread.html&page=17

 

[knucklehead]

I am glad you have had success with A.A. I only caution that if somone is attending AA that they have a good understanding of who they are In Christ. My sister started attending AA and got involved with some of the people that were in the group which led her to believe that all her problems came from church and the Bible. She now says she doesn't believe in the Bible and that she doesn't believe in Christianity. I'm not trying to criticize AA, just cautioning people to understand that it can be dangerous to those who don't place there identity in Christ.

check out my previous post on identity truths
http://www.christianforums.com/t1863390-alcoholics-and-addicts-discussion-support-thread.html&page=17

Most who walk through the doors of AA have no relationship with God or Christ. The drinking has to cease first, before they can begin to discover who they are in Christ. A lot of churchs are a big part of the problem. They push the law down on these alcoholics and never tell them of Christs love and his sufficient grace. They tell them to quit drinking and it's just not that easy for most. Sure, Jesus can heal them completley if that is His will, but sometimes it's not. It wasn't for me.

There are many blood bought believers in the rooms of AA and they are helping alcoholics find the path back to God, while learning how to live sober. God has blessed the work done in AA.

I learned of my idenity in Christ through the book, Victory Over the Darkness, by Neil Anderson, A great read and one I recommend. It's very important to know our idenity in Christ, but most new recovering alcoholics aren't capable of seeing that far at first. Arrest the drinking, then work on the man (woman).

I will pray for your sister. If she was once Gods child, I believe she still is. John 10:28, no one can snatch them from his hand. She may not know it.

 

[JaneFW]

A lot of churchs are a big part of the problem. They push the law down on these alcoholics and never tell them of Christs love and his sufficient grace. They tell them to quit drinking and it's just not that easy for most. Sure, Jesus can heal them completley if that is His will, but sometimes it's not. It wasn't for me.

That's why programs such as Celebrate Recovery are so awesome. Every church should have a CR program in place! I agree that some people in some churches can be extremely judgemental. I have been told that "if I was truly saved" I would not be still an alcoholic. But it doesn't work that way, and it says nowhere in the Bible that all of our addictions and faults will miraculously disappear. Yes we are a "new creation" but that new creation has a clean slate with God, a new start, where he or she must begin to work on their faults and addictions - with God's help. It's an amazing, beautiful thing, but it's not "magic". I came to the point of being saved only a few years ago, so I am still working on so many flaws and faults .. but I'm getting there. My addiction to alcohol is not the most serious (imo) but it is a pressing problem.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on, just my thoughts.

 

[LoG]

There are many blood bought believers in the rooms of AA and they are helping alcoholics find the path back to God, while learning how to live sober. God has blessed the work done in AA.

Couldn't agree more. In my early years of recovery I was bothered somewhat by the perceived lack of Christians in AA. I started to ask God where I should be and if there were Christians in the rooms to show them to me. He showed them to me in a variety of different ways and I was amazed with the numbers of believers. AA is in my opinion predominently Christian which is why I believe it is so strong.

Johnnieboy, your sister will likely be back into the fold in time. Trust in Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, And even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Often the worst thing we can do is to judge someone on the decisions they have made. Pride steps up for that person and they refuse to do what it is we want for them.

 

[AngelDove1]

That's why programs such as Celebrate Recovery are so awesome. Every church should have a CR program in place! I agree that some people in some churches can be extremely judgemental. I have been told that "if I was truly saved" I would not be still an alcoholic. But it doesn't work that way, and it says nowhere in the Bible that all of our addictions and faults will miraculously disappear. Yes we are a "new creation" but that new creation has a clean slate with God, a new start, where he or she must begin to work on their faults and addictions - with God's help. It's an amazing, beautiful thing, but it's not "magic". I came to the point of being saved only a few years ago, so I am still working on so many flaws and faults .. but I'm getting there. My addiction to alcohol is not the most serious (imo) but it is a pressing problem.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on, just my thoughts.

HI Laurentia....

Your heart is in the right place ..liked what you had to say.

"One day at a time"
"The miracle is just round that corner"

Never say die,...God is still working n all of us.

 

[johnnieboy]

I do not judge my sister, as I also went through a stage of alcohol dependecy. But the key to me getting out from under it was recognizing my identity in Christ. It did not help me to say that I was an alcoholic. What helped me was to see that I was a child of God that has Christ's life in me, and learning to place my dependency on Him instead of alcohol. I moved from addiction to addiction, I was able to stop the ride when I saw that the addiction wasn't the problem, it was the thinking pattern that led me to feel I needed something other than God to get me through a stressful time. Legalism is one problem that keeps people from becoming dependent on God, I came out of a legalistic background, this type of teaching leads you to become dependent on the flesh by trying to discipline it to get it to do everything that God has already done for me. I beleive that if a person comes to recognize the value that God places on them they can overcome any addiction. You can't see that value until you really see what He has done for us, the experience is humbling, and brings a freedom that legalism can never bring. God's desire is that everyone have an abundant life, so I believe He has given us all the resources to do so provided through His life.

I love my sister, and I know that she know it, I am pretty much the only one in my family that she will talk to now. Mostly because I don't try to shove religion down her throat, I just let God do the loving through me, I know that His love is the most effective resource we have. I have not seen her in 14 years, but we talk on the phone from time to time. She called me just the other day, something she doesn't do very often, usually it me that calls her. Pray that I would have the resources to go see her, she lives quite a distance away and I am going to school right now so its hard to get away, and money is tight

Thanks
In Christ
Johnnieboy

 

[stelow]

At the risk of sounding like a smart alec, the answer is because you wanted to. In order for me to completely stop drinking, I had to get to a place where I wanted to be free of alcohol more than anything else. This meant that quitting had to become more important than anything else in my life. It absolutely has to be this way, because if you don't have your sobriety, you don't have anything. You understand what I mean?

I do not completely agree, because I did want to quit but I do understand.
I am trying to quit and I do want to quit, third day so far but this time I am somewhat angry.