• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Agnostic looking for answers

jake2847

Newbie
Mar 24, 2012
1
0
✟22,611.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Engaged
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?

Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.
 

iLogos

Gal 5:16 So Walk In The Spirit!
Jan 24, 2012
764
33
✟1,045.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?

Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.

Welcome to the forum! And good questions.

Once upon a time I considered myself a Christian Agnostic. In case you don't know what that is let me explain.

It's first an agnostic! But Christian leaning.

As an agnostic at that time I believed all religions fall short of the Truth and the truth can never really be known in this world. I had serious problems with religion, theology, dogma, creeds, and didn't really care for religious people all that much either.

But I could not deny the possibility of God! In fact, I after much reading and research I was convinced that Christianity might actually be the closest to the truth! Comparing it against other religions I found to be far to many more deeper truths in it. I learned to appreciate why the Word of God is referred to as sharp as a two edge sword! It is sharp! So for the longest time I was simply a Agnostic Christian! Did not subscribe to any creeds or any denomination. I still felt they all fell short of the truth. But realized they were closer then I originally thought.

Funny thing about God. On our own in our minds, we can really get close to God! When we try to communicate this with other people we get religion!

I never stopped reading and studying! 30 years later I'm still reading and studying! Early on some where in my path I dropped the agnostic part. I was convinced there was a God and believed in Jesus!

As to your questions. Why does God need our love? He doesn't. We do! God is Love. If you can master Love, every thing else is a walk in the park! Love never fails! Love is everlasting! Love is all you need!

God does not punish us! We punish ourselves really. We tend to beat ourselves up pretty good and even have enough time and energy to beat up other people even ones we love!

You don't have to accept every single piece of theology or doctrine or agree with every thing your girlfriend believes! It really is not about religion at all. It's about faith, love and being Christ like!

These days I am simply a Christian. I still do not "officially" belong to any Church or denomination, but guess what? I can walk in to most and worship there and be ok. I just can't stick around too long because eventually it gets to I have to believe the same things they do and be the same way they are. I can't do that. I accept most of what they say even most of the creeds and theology. But I can't commit to any man made creeds. That's me. :)

But I love God with all my heart and soul and have a great relationship with God! I pray often and still read and study!

Good Luck!
 
Upvote 0

drich0150

Regular Member
Mar 16, 2008
6,407
437
Florida
✟59,834.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.
Because eternity past is a long time to spend alone. We are created in his image meaning we feel as He feels. If you were alone or completely disconnected for a very long time would you not seek companionship.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them?
Because Christianity is not an empty religious exercise. God comes to live in the faithful. If God is literally with you then He lets you know.

Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to Christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?
Hebrews4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

We will be judged by the most righteous Judge. One that looks at absolutely everything.
Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?
Because Love is not His defining characteristic, Righteousness is. That is why His Son Had to be sacrificed for sin. Do you not believe He loved His own son?

I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.
I look forward to your other questions
 
Upvote 0

ChristianT

Newbie Orthodox
Nov 4, 2011
2,059
89
Somewhere in God's Creation.
✟25,331.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.
Welcome!
drich's answer was sufficient except for this one:

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.
It is obvious that God is perfectly complete without humans and worship/love from us. God exists as a trinity (don't entangle yourself on this one, it's a matter our brains truly can't fully comprehend because nowhere in nature does anything mimic it), and each Person has glorified another Person, not their own "self." They also share love for each other as a family would, however God is one essence, not 3. Ever since eternity until eternity, God was, is, and will be a perfect loving, selfless example. God actually created the universe and humans to share His perfect love with Creation and set the example, then give us a choice to obey Him or not.

We'd be happy to answer your questions, but keep in mind some questions may not be answered, some may seem unanswerable yet only from one who denies God's existence, etc.
 
Upvote 0

Living in the Light

How may I be a better Christian?
Jan 7, 2012
923
66
United States
✟23,871.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Jake, first let me say that I am a Truth seeker and not a Bible scholar or theologian. I hope my comments may help. Congratulations on your engagement to your Christian fiancee and I wish you the best in your relationship in the future. The way I see your relationship with your fiancee, is that God is trying to "get through to you" by means of your girlfriend. I believe that all of mankind's spiritual journey and path to God and Jesus Christ is different and God uses different methods of revealing Himself depending on each our souls. What works for one person may not work for another.

We as Christians are asked to believe many things about Jesus that an agnostic might have trouble with -- the Virgin Birth, the miracles (such as raising Lazarus from the dead), walking on water, His resurrrection and ascention into Heaven, just to name a few. Sometimes, we just have to accept many things on faith rather than scientific evidence. Do you have faith that the sun will shine tomorrow? the earth will still be rotating and revolving around the sun? These things alone are miracles.

Do you pray or meditate? Have you been the church with your fiancee? Are you capable of believing in Spirit --something beyond the five senses? I suspect that many who are skeptical or non-believers have experienced God working within them more than they are willing to admit. Have you ever been moved to a touching act of compassion? A mother loving and nursing her baby, or someone reaching out to a homeless person?

I would embrace the unseen things you may not understand and know that there is a bigger picture beyond the physical picture. I pray that you may become aware of your experiences with God. Peace.
 
Upvote 0

7angels

Newbie
Dec 8, 2011
303
27
✟17,549.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

God does not need love and worship. i could show you that how we were created or how we evolved(if you prefer to look at it from that standpoint) that there is something inside us that craves something. man has from the beginning of time always made up a deity to explain away things they don't understand. there is an emptiness within us that no matter how we try to fill it that just comes back. call it what you will but people try drugs, alcohol, sex, and ect and it works for a time but then the emptiness comes back. i have found that God can fill that emptiness if we choose. don't ask me to explain it but for some reason it works. or if you prefer being an agnostic you believe in a God so don't you think a being powerful enough to make creation is worthy to be praised? do you think man is above this creator? we worship and praise a God that has done things which we are incapable of doing ourselves so we give thanks where thanks is due.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?

have you seriously tried asking God to show you love? if you ask God for something and seek after it God will show you or do what you seek of him. when the gospel is preached correctly then God shows up in all his power. and if you have ever been touched by God you would know God's love.

no if a person has never been exposed to the good news of Christ then the word teaches we will be judged according to our actions here on earth. man is essentially a morally Good person who knows right from wrong. if we have not been exposed to God then during the white throne of judgment will God look at our life and judge us according to the knowledge we had during our lifetime.

Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

being a righteous God, he is required to not just love everyone but also judge us for what we do wrong. for example when raising a kid you don't just love him but you also need to discipline them to teach them what is right and what is wrong. disciplining can take on many different forms and not just a spanking.

the reason being a good person is not good enough to reach heaven is because God has shown us that one sin is enough to be sent to hell for. i know i have sinned many more times then once. so no matter how many good works we do because we have sinned once we are going to hell anyways. which is why God sent his son who knew no sin
to become our sacrifice to God for our wrong doings. so there is nothing we can do to get to heaven on our own but to believe in Christ as our Lord and savior.

I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.

i hope this helps and if i can help anymore you have just to ask.

i wish you well and God bless you.
 
Upvote 0

AvgJoe

Member since 2005
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2005
2,749
1,099
Texas
✟377,816.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

You could also add to you question, why does God need our money, our prayers, our praise, our requests, and our service? The answer to this question is that he does not! God is not a human who has human needs that must be met by human actions. We do not love, praise and worship God because he has a self-image problem, or pray to him because he needs our information. Giving is not done because God needs our financial support. The church is the people who are “called out.” The called out are given tools that help them do what God has called them to do, which in turn brings satisfaction, joy, peace, and stability in a confused world.

These things God wants us to do is for our own good, bringing us closer to Him and enabling us to do His work which makes the world a better place.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?

Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.

God doesn't need us but wants a relationship with his creation.
Jesus died for sins
Why did Jesus have to die for our sins? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Are you a good person? The Good Test
Can you keep the 10 commandments 100% of the time all the time? So, have you ever lied or steal something or break any of these commandments once in your life? If the answer is yes-than you are guilty.
We are all guilty. Only Jesus kept these. Also, if a doctor had just one cure for you to live would you tell him no? Not all roads lead to heaven and all cures from all possible doctors can’t cure a cancer patient. Like a bypass won’t help a cancer patient if they put faith in it-without chemo their dead. The all road ordeal doesn’t work in the real world.

Why christianity? Compared to other religious books the bible has attributes that only could be written by God.

Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell a former agnostic- (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ and The Real Jesus by Lee Strobel a former athiest.

100 fulfilled Bible prophecies
Reasons To Believe : Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible (science website)
Eyewitnesses to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Apologetics Study - Evidence For The Christian Faith
Bible Reliability: M-A-P-S to Guide You through Bible Reliability

Historical Accuracy(bible is the most accurate history book)
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
 
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Site Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,828
3,122
Australia
Visit site
✟900,280.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

Apart of your question seems to be how could a just God punish people who, a) believe something different due to their up bringing, or b) never have exposure to God via geography.

I will use a true story to illustrate how God's justice is expressed. For the full story of what I am to explain goto Ian McCormack - Heaven Hell and the Box Jellyfish it is a story of a man who died and came back to life again. He was an athiest who did not believe in God, but as he was dying God revealed himself to him (with no other human witness), God showed the man the LORD's prayer (from the bible) and focused on the part "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us", God then asked him to forgive all the people who had hurt him. Which he did, at that point he died and was taken up into heaven where God said he was now a born again christian, due to his forgiving of others. God then sent him back to his body (an hour or so latter), he woke up in hospital.

You can see from this story that God does not need other people, he can talk to people himself. So no matter what religion a person is or what back ground he can clear things up with that person before they die. That does not mean that we should neglect God up until that point, a person may not get that experience if they have already been exposed to enough in this life time.
 
Upvote 0

candle glow

whatever I want to be
Jan 2, 2012
2,035
181
Nairobi, Kenya
✟25,632.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
my sixth cents worth...

Before I respond to the op's comments, I'd like to address a comment from drich

drich said:
Because Love is not His defining characteristic, Righteousness is. That is why His Son Had to be sacrificed for sin.

Fantastic comment! I literally cheered. Thank you for such an encouraging insight.

She wants me to try to convert for her
Definitely do not try this. Jesus talked about laying our lives down for his sake. That takes a deep personal conviction. Generally speaking, if someone can talk you into something, then it's only a matter of time before someone talks you out of it.

But a conviction to die for what we believe in; no one can talk us of that, not even a loved one or an executioner (whichever comes first! haha).

but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion.
A key bit of information here is, have you asked her these questions yourself and, what did she say? It's not us you'll have to live with for the rest of your life...

Why does god need love and worship?
Why do you want a wife? Why does your wife want you? If you have children, would you really be impressed if the first words they could speak were used to question why you want them to love you?

Is the answer really so hard?

It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.
He's all powerful, all knowing, all etc, etc, etc ad infinitum...

but cut him some slack will ya? Even God wants to be loved.

Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?
There are heaps of references in the Bible which deal with this. The basic concept is sincerity. One says "anyone who loves is born of God". Another says, "if you do what I say, then you show that you love me". If someone shows love to another, then that person shows they love God, even if that person is not aware of it. Because there is no other source of love than God, then anyone who shows love MUST be showing appreciation for the values of the Kingdom of Heaven (from a Christian point of view).

God is not limited to petty theological or religious rules about salvation. He is able to look into the sincere, loving heart of the individual and make his own assessment of that persons' spirit. There are no rules which can bind God's judgment, no matter how holy (or exclusive) we think those rules are supposed to be.

Why does he punish if he loves us all?
God has standards. It's just a fact of life. The sooner you accept that the easier it will be for you to be rational about what it means to really love others. Imagine trying to raise a child with no rules or expectations at all, on the basis that such rules and expectations would equate to a lack of love. It makes no sense.

Children (or people in general) need guidance. A rule is only necessary until the point when the person being exercised by the rule understands the reason behind the rule. At that point, the rule, as a rule in itself, ceases to have any meaning, because the person will practice the values behind the rule voluntarily.

Take teeth brushing, for example. Children don't naturally do it, and even when we impose rules on them they don't like to do it. They don't understand cavities, tooth decay, doctors appointments, pain, etc...

They eventually learn these things through experience, but if we don't force them to brush their teeth (at least in the beginning) via rules and punishments for breaking those rules then they end up with a lot of problems without realizing what kind of problems they cause for themselves, not because they are naturally bad, but because they are naturally ignorant.

When they get older and learn the reasons for teeth brushing, there is no longer any need to force them into it with rules, because they understand the reasons behind teeth brushing.

In other words, true Christianity is pure anarchy, where each person judges him/herself and is accountable to God directly based on a sincere desire to understand the reasons behind why God acts the way he does. Rules cease to have any meaning because we will judge (i.e. correct) ourselves without any need for others to correct us. That is what we aim for in Christianity.

Is that something you can accept? If so, you may not be as far from being a Christian as you think.

Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?
Who said it's not enough to be good?
 
Upvote 0

Tnmusicman

Sinner Saved By Grace
Mar 24, 2012
1,049
42
Nashville, TN ( Music City )
Visit site
✟24,018.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?

Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

I'm going to offer you my "opinion" on a few of your questions.
It's not that God NEEDS to be worshipped but as a Christian you should WANT to worship God as a means of showing thanks for all He has done for us.
I MUST address the geography question with you. It's my belief that little children ( yes,they are born into sin as well ) AND those that have never heard of God will NOT go to hell.There is a point called "age of accountability" and is different for everybody.
Btw, you should never convert to any religion for somebody or it ceases to be genuine.
I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.
I'm going to offer you my "opinion" on a few of your questions.
It's not that God NEEDS to be worshipped but as a Christian you should WANT to worship God as a means of showing thanks for all He has done for us.
I MUST address the geography question with you. It's my belief that little children ( yes,they are born into sin as well ) AND those that have never heard of God will NOT go to hell.There is a point called "age of accountability" and is different for everybody.
Btw, you should never convert to any religion for somebody or it ceases to be genuine.
 
Upvote 0

Tnmusicman

Sinner Saved By Grace
Mar 24, 2012
1,049
42
Nashville, TN ( Music City )
Visit site
✟24,018.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I recently became engaged to a non-denominational christian women. She wants me to try to convert for her but I have too many questions about her beliefs for me to make any kind of commitment to a religion. I was hoping to find some answers from elsewhere. I really am not trying to start a debate or bash religion, to each their own.

Why does god need love and worship? It just seems to me that an all powerful entity would be above the need for these things.

How can so many people across the world, with very different beliefs, be so certain that god loves them? Furthermore, if an individual is never exposed to christianity due to the time of their birth or geography are they doomed to hell?

Why does he punish if he loves us all? Why is being a good person apart from religion not enough?

I'm going to offer you my "opinion" on a few of your questions.
It's not that God NEEDS to be worshipped but as a Christian you should WANT to worship God as a means of showing thanks for all He has done for us.
I MUST address the geography question with you. It's my belief that little children ( yes,they are born into sin as well ) AND those that have never heard of God will NOT go to hell.There is a point called "age of accountability" and is different for everybody.
Btw, you should never convert to any religion for somebody or it ceases to be genuine.
I have more but I don't want to overwhelm the post. I appreciate your time.
I'm going to offer you my "opinion" on a few of your questions.
It's not that God NEEDS to be worshipped but as a Christian you should WANT to worship God as a means of showing thanks for all He has done for us.
I MUST address the geography question with you. It's my belief that little children ( yes,they are born into sin as well ) AND those that have never heard of God will NOT go to hell.There is a point called "age of accountability" and is different for everybody.
Btw, you should never convert to any religion for somebody or it ceases to be genuine.
 
Upvote 0
Apr 30, 2012
4
0
✟22,614.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
I have to agree that it's not that God NEEDS our love. Love comes from God. We may not understand everything that happens to us in life. We wonder why God allows bad things to happen to good people. But in my experience, sometimes God allows certain things to happen to us because it helps mold and shape us as people, preparing us for challenges that we may face in the future or perhaps prepare us to be there for someone else who is going through similar struggles.

I may not understand why but sometimes after all is said and done, I realize why certain bad things have happened to me. I'm in the right place to get a better job or I'm in the right place to meet the right people who I may not have met before. There is a whole bigger picture that only God can see. And it's a real treat when He does allow us to see glimpses of it. It's that point in time when you look back and say..."I get it now."

As for the question regarding the fate of those around the world who may have never heard of Jesus. You asked, if they would go to Hell.

I asked this question myself, even as a Christian. How can a loving God sentence His creation who may have never heard of Jesus to Hell? That just didn't hardly seem fair. One day I asked this question of my mom, who recently passed away, God bless her soul. She told me she also had asked that question herself but then realized that God judges us based on our God consciousness.

Therefore, I believe, each person's relationship with God is a personal one. Only God truly knows a person's heart. Sometimes people of other religions and beliefs help Christians, even in The Bible this would happen and God would bless them for it. So no matter what their religion or lack thereof may be, it is ultimately the person's heart that is judged by God.

Although, ultimately, the only true way to be sure you are going to go to Heaven is to be saved by accepting Jesus Christ into your heart. This doesn't make us perfect or better than anyone else. We are all only sinners saved by grace. It just means that we have decided to dedicate our lives to Jesus and live in faith and love to the best our abilities.

I hope this helps you.
 
Upvote 0

candle glow

whatever I want to be
Jan 2, 2012
2,035
181
Nairobi, Kenya
✟25,632.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
As for the question regarding the fate of those around the world who may have never heard of Jesus. You asked, if they would go to Hell.

I asked this question myself, even as a Christian. How can a loving God sentence His creation who may have never heard of Jesus to Hell? That just didn't hardly seem fair. One day I asked this question of my mom, who recently passed away, God bless her soul. She told me she also had asked that question herself but then realized that God judges us based on our God consciousness.

There is a lot in the gospels about sincerity.

LK 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

LK 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Also,

A dominant theme throughout the gospels is that God is looking for people who are willing to act on his spirit of love, even if they don't have the correct theology.

Another example is the sheep and goats parable from matthew 25. The sheep didn't even know they were helping God when they were helping people. They just acted on what they felt was right and those actions were consistent with what God wanted so he rewarded them.

In another place Jesus said that he could handle people putting him down, but God would not tolerate people rejecting his spirit, because his teachings about love are communicated through his spirit.

Apparently anyone can act on God's spirit, even if they don't know they are doing it.
 
Upvote 0

Tnmusicman

Sinner Saved By Grace
Mar 24, 2012
1,049
42
Nashville, TN ( Music City )
Visit site
✟24,018.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Jake, first let me say that I am a Truth seeker and not a Bible scholar or theologian. I hope my comments may help. Congratulations on your engagement to your Christian fiancee and I wish you the best in your relationship in the future. The way I see your relationship with your fiancee, is that God is trying to "get through to you" by means of your girlfriend. I believe that all of mankind's spiritual journey and path to God and Jesus Christ is different and God uses different methods of revealing Himself depending on each our souls. What works for one person may not work for another.

We as Christians are asked to believe many things about Jesus that an agnostic might have trouble with -- the Virgin Birth, the miracles (such as raising Lazarus from the dead), walking on water, His resurrrection and ascention into Heaven, just to name a few. Sometimes, we just have to accept many things on faith rather than scientific evidence. Do you have faith that the sun will shine tomorrow? the earth will still be rotating and revolving around the sun? These things alone are miracles.

Do you pray or meditate? Have you been the church with your fiancee? Are you capable of believing in Spirit --something beyond the five senses? I suspect that many who are skeptical or non-believers have experienced God working within them more than they are willing to admit. Have you ever been moved to a touching act of compassion? A mother loving and nursing her baby, or someone reaching out to a homeless person?

I would embrace the unseen things you may not understand and know that there is a bigger picture beyond the physical picture. I pray that you may become aware of your experiences with God. Peace.

This is probably the most accurate and best answer on the thread ((with all due respect to everyone else)).
 
Upvote 0

Tnmusicman

Sinner Saved By Grace
Mar 24, 2012
1,049
42
Nashville, TN ( Music City )
Visit site
✟24,018.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
my sixth cents worth...

Before I respond to the op's comments, I'd like to address a comment from drich



Fantastic comment! I literally cheered. Thank you for such an encouraging insight.

Definitely do not try this. Jesus talked about laying our lives down for his sake. That takes a deep personal conviction. Generally speaking, if someone can talk you into something, then it's only a matter of time before someone talks you out of it.

But a conviction to die for what we believe in; no one can talk us of that, not even a loved one or an executioner (whichever comes first! haha).

A key bit of information here is, have you asked her these questions yourself and, what did she say? It's not us you'll have to live with for the rest of your life...

Why do you want a wife? Why does your wife want you? If you have children, would you really be impressed if the first words they could speak were used to question why you want them to love you?

Is the answer really so hard?

He's all powerful, all knowing, all etc, etc, etc ad infinitum...

but cut him some slack will ya? Even God wants to be loved.

There are heaps of references in the Bible which deal with this. The basic concept is sincerity. One says "anyone who loves is born of God". Another says, "if you do what I say, then you show that you love me". If someone shows love to another, then that person shows they love God, even if that person is not aware of it. Because there is no other source of love than God, then anyone who shows love MUST be showing appreciation for the values of the Kingdom of Heaven (from a Christian point of view).

God is not limited to petty theological or religious rules about salvation. He is able to look into the sincere, loving heart of the individual and make his own assessment of that persons' spirit. There are no rules which can bind God's judgment, no matter how holy (or exclusive) we think those rules are supposed to be.

God has standards. It's just a fact of life. The sooner you accept that the easier it will be for you to be rational about what it means to really love others. Imagine trying to raise a child with no rules or expectations at all, on the basis that such rules and expectations would equate to a lack of love. It makes no sense.

Children (or people in general) need guidance. A rule is only necessary until the point when the person being exercised by the rule understands the reason behind the rule. At that point, the rule, as a rule in itself, ceases to have any meaning, because the person will practice the values behind the rule voluntarily.

Take teeth brushing, for example. Children don't naturally do it, and even when we impose rules on them they don't like to do it. They don't understand cavities, tooth decay, doctors appointments, pain, etc...

They eventually learn these things through experience, but if we don't force them to brush their teeth (at least in the beginning) via rules and punishments for breaking those rules then they end up with a lot of problems without realizing what kind of problems they cause for themselves, not because they are naturally bad, but because they are naturally ignorant.

When they get older and learn the reasons for teeth brushing, there is no longer any need to force them into it with rules, because they understand the reasons behind teeth brushing.

In other words, true Christianity is pure anarchy, where each person judges him/herself and is accountable to God directly based on a sincere desire to understand the reasons behind why God acts the way he does. Rules cease to have any meaning because we will judge (i.e. correct) ourselves without any need for others to correct us. That is what we aim for in Christianity.

Is that something you can accept? If so, you may not be as far from being a Christian as you think.

Who said it's not enough to be good?

You've given great answers to the questions presented but I must take exception with your final answer Who said it's not enough to be good?? The bible tells us that being good does not get us into heaven.According to the Bible, there are people who live what we would consider morally good lives that go to hell Every Day!
"I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee."
(Isaiah 57:12 KJV)


This is because they relied on their church, or their own actions to save them. Only Christ can save.
 
Upvote 0