Age Old Debate: Right and Wrong

[The Nihilist]

I just don't think most of you are smart enough to argue with quotana.
Also, can we cut out all this crap about being friends with God? You can't be friends with someone when he's not around. Being present in your heart doesn't count because it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Robinsegg]

I just don't think most of you are smart enough to argue with quotana.
Also, can we cut out all this crap about being friends with God? You can't be friends with someone when he's not around. Being present in your heart doesn't count because it doesn't mean anything.

Are you saying you can't have a meaningful friendship with a penpal? Or over long distances? If you are, that's an interesting stance I've never considered. Otherwise, you can be friends with God, if you believe in Him and choose to do so. Scripture is clear on that point.

Rachel

 

[The Nihilist]

No, of course you can have a pen pal. Trying to be friends with God is like trying to be friends with a brick wall. Neither ever talks, at least not in any easily recognizable or externally verifiable ways. I mean, you may hear either of them talk, but most people aren't going to hear that.

 

[quatona]

Are you saying you can't have a meaningful friendship with a penpal? Or over long distances? If you are, that's an interesting stance I've never considered. Otherwise, you can be friends with God, if you believe in Him and choose to do so. Scripture is clear on that point.

http://www.christianforums.com/t3895685-there-is-this-widow-from-nigeria.html

 

[shye]

what is right or wrong? is there more then just right or wrong? is life that simple on choosing what is right or what is wrong?

 

[Emmy]

Dear humbledbyhim, you had some good replies, may I put my reply a bit easier to understand? Jesus gave us 2 Commandments, they contain all 10, which God gave us. 1) Love your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. 2) Love each other, as you love yourselves. Anything against these 2 Commandments, is WRONG. Anything within these 2 Commandments, is Right. God is Worthy, God is Love, and God is Creator of Heaven and Earth, and all within. Praise and Glory are His, for ever and ever. Never do, or say, anything to any man, woman or child, what you would not want being said, or done to yourself, or those you love. 1) Corinthians. chapter 13, verses 4 - 8, tell us what love is. That is Right, and it is not easy, in fact it cannot be done without the help and guidance of Jesus, and the most wonderful thing about is, that is the Repentance God wants from us. It also gives life abundantly on Earth, and is the Key back into God`s Heaven, and Forgiveness. I say this humbly and kindly, humblledbyhim, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[The Nihilist]

Dear humbledbyhim, you had some good replies, may I put my reply a bit easier to understand? Jesus gave us 2 Commandments, they contain all 10, which God gave us. 1) Love your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. 2) Love each other, as you love yourselves. Anything against these 2 Commandments, is WRONG. Anything within these 2 Commandments, is Right. God is Worthy, God is Love, and God is Creator of Heaven and Earth, and all within. Praise and Glory are His, for ever and ever. Never do, or say, anything to any man, woman or child, what you would not want being said, or done to yourself, or those you love. 1) Corinthians. chapter 13, verses 4 - 8, tell us what love is. That is Right, and it is not easy, in fact it cannot be done without the help and guidance of Jesus, and the most wonderful thing about is, that is the Repentance God wants from us. It also gives life abundantly on Earth, and is the Key back into God`s Heaven, and Forgiveness. I say this humbly and kindly, humblledbyhim, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

Emmy, why do you think that this is a good standard for right and wrong? I'm just kidding, you think so because it's in the Bible. To have any clout, though, you're going to have to establish that the Bible is authoritative, and you're going to have to do this without citing the Bible. That would be called circular reasoning. Don't say you just believe it, either, because that may fly at the little kid table, but this is a discussion for grownups.
If you think it's hard to establish the authority of the Bible, you also have the option of establishing that these commandments are right and wrong independently from the Bible. You might have better luck with that.

 

[elman]

what is right or wrong? is there more then just right or wrong? is life that simple on choosing what is right or what is wrong?

For the most part it is very simple and we all know what is right and what is wrong. Being kind and loving is right and being cruel and hateful is wrong. It can get complicated, but usually it is very simple.

 

[elman]

Emmy, why do you think that this is a good standard for right and wrong? I'm just kidding, you think so because it's in the Bible. To have any clout, though, you're going to have to establish that the Bible is authoritative, and you're going to have to do this without citing the Bible. That would be called circular reasoning. Don't say you just believe it, either, because that may fly at the little kid table, but this is a discussion for grownups.
If you think it's hard to establish the authority of the Bible, you also have the option of establishing that these commandments are right and wrong independently from the Bible. You might have better luck with that.

People have known what is loving and kind and what is not long before the Bible existed.

 

[elman]

No, of course you can have a pen pal. Trying to be friends with God is like trying to be friends with a brick wall. Neither ever talks, at least not in any easily recognizable or externally verifiable ways. I mean, you may hear either of them talk, but most people aren't going to hear that.

You assume you have not heard from God because He perhaps has not spoken to you as your mother or father may have. It is possible you have not heard because you have not opened your ears and eyes to the possiblity of this communication.

 

[The Nihilist]

You assume you have not heard from God because He perhaps has not spoken to you as your mother or father may have. It is possible you have not heard because you have not opened your ears and eyes to the possiblity of this communication.

You will not make a neurotic out of me, elman.

If you think that the difference between right and wrong is the difference between loving and not loving, you're going to have to explain why. Without citing the Bible.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Jesus Christ determines right and wrong? What difference does that make if no one has access to it? And don't act like the answers are all in the Bible; Christians regularly have conflicting opinions on things. Forget the big issues, most Christians can't agree on whether or not speeding is a sin. They say their opinions come from the Bible, but they really just make up right and wrong for themselves, the same as everyone else.

There is onbly the Roman Catholic church that is entitled (by Christ himself) to interpret and loose and bind on earth.

If the Holy See says that speeding is a sin, then it is a sin regardlesso f whatthe other denominations have to say, because the Holy Church was given that power by Christ.

 

[TricksterWolf]

There is onbly the Roman Catholic church that is entitled (by Christ himself) to interpret and loose and bind on earth.

If the Holy See says that speeding is a sin, then it is a sin regardlesso f whatthe other denominations have to say, because the Holy Church was given that power by Christ.

Where in the Bible does Jesus establish that the Catholic Church is the only person or institution qualified to determine right from wrong?

Didn't God provide us each with a brain for that purpose?

Trickster

 

[JesusWalks78]

Where in the Bible does Jesus establish that the Catholic Church is the only person or institution qualified to determine right from wrong?

Didn't God provide us each with a brain for that purpose?

Trickster

Look up St Peters Confession of Christ.

Matthew 16.

Here is a list of all the 266 popes

1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontain (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

 

[TricksterWolf]

Look up St Peters Confession of Christ.

Matthew 16.

Here is a list of all the 266 popes

1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontain (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

I don't see the words Catholic or Pope anywhere there, nor do I see Jesus saying that "Peter, you should do the thinking for everyone else so they don't have to", or "Peter, you are infallable", or "Peter, only the truth can come from you".

Trickster

 

[JesusWalks78]

I don't see the words Catholic or Pope anywhere there, nor do I see Jesus saying that "Peter, you should do the thinking for everyone else so they don't have to", or "Peter, you are infallable", or "Peter, only the truth can come from you".

Trickster

St Peter and all the succeding Vicars of Christ are not infallible, but through prayer and the Holy Spirit (which is infallible because the Holy Spirit is God) shows them.

St Peter was told that whatever he loosed he loosed and whatever he bound was bound, this power is passed down to each succeive Vicar of Christ, ordained by Jesus Christ Himself, St Peter and each of his succesors set up the Church in this way under the order of jesus Christ and by the infallibility of the Holy Spirit aka Jesus Christ aka God.

So St Peter was given the authourity to interpret the bible and the teachings for all of humanity by loosing and binding.

No other man has that authourity from Christ, unless you are aware of another verse that says so.

 

[The Nihilist]

Besides, the corruption of past popes really undermines that position.

Also, even if you believe in Jesus and all that, it does not seem implied in the passage in Matthew that Jesus was setting up the office of Pope, but only that he was giving that power to Peter.

 

[TricksterWolf]

Besides, the corruption of past popes really undermines that position.

Also, even if you believe in Jesus and all that, it does not seem implied in the passage in Matthew that Jesus was setting up the office of Pope, but only that he was giving that power to Peter.

I thought he was just giving Peter a name change and explaining his new name to him.

Trickster

 

[JesusWalks78]

I thought he was just giving Peter a name change and explaining his new name to him.

Trickster

He gave the power to St Peter to set up his church, Peter set it up with his power to loose and bind, and that included the office of the Vicar of Christ.

Peter bound his succesor, and passed on the power to his succesors.....and as the scripture states that which the Vicar of Christ Binds on earth shall also be bound in heaven.

An awesome responsibility, but ordained by Christ none the less......and BTW what corruption?

 

[TheBellman]

He gave the power to St Peter to set up his church, Peter set it up with his power to loose and bind, and that included the office of the Vicar of Christ.

That 'office' is a tradition of man and was not given by Jesus.

Peter bound his succesor, and passed on the power to his succesors.....and as the scripture states that which the Vicar of Christ Binds on earth shall also be bound in heaven.

And Jesus gave the power to Peter - he didn't mention anything about Peter's successors.

An awesome responsibility, but ordained by Christ none the less

No, not ordained by Christ. Invented by men.

and BTW what corruption?

Read a (non Catholic) history of the Church and learn.