Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[Bible Highlighter]

The post did address the verse. Here it is again..."James is saying...you do because you are saved...it demonstrates your faith."...

To address your belief that works keep you saved...it sounds very cultish. Sorry if you disagree. It is my biblical understanding that when my sins were imputed to Christ ....ALL... of my sins were imputed. Past, present and future. Your post seemed to indicate just your past sins were paid for and Jesus requires you to do good to pay for your present and future sins.
Your claims are that OSAS is a license to sin...when it has been explained to you ad-nauseam...that it isn't. In James, pertaining to faith and works....as I said above "James is saying...you do because you are saved...it demonstrates your faith."

You ended your post with "With loving kindness to you in Christ"....emphasis on the "in Christ"
Did you know the bible says.....There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1.

One verse I do know that you know is that...no one can snatch you from Jesus hand.

First, you admit that a person's future sins are forgiven a person. This means that a person can plan on sinnng with the thought they are saved. This is a license to sin. The other alternative is that sin causes a separation between God and man. So which is it?

Second, you left out an important detail in Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.


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[FreeGrace2]

This was your response to a scripture quoted ...
For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.. 1 John 3, 8

Let me ask you this, did your Jesus destroy the works of the devil ?
Or..
Did your Jesus only pay for the penalty of doing the works of the devil?

"your Jesus"??? He's the Savior of the world. And saves EVERYONE who believes in Him.

By paying the penalty of sin He DID destroy the works of the devil. Do believers continue to sin? By your reasoning (illogical), no believer would ever sin.

If Jesus only pays the penalty of you doing the works of the devil, then by that understanding we can never be free from doing the works of the devil, and then I assume your Jesus

This sorely misunderstands what Christ did on the cross.

has to perpetually hang on the cross for that penalty.

Heb 10 refutes your theory.

As to the rest of your post, I don't even know where to start. Sorry.

 

[FreeGrace2]

you misunderstood James 2 in this regard.

One is free to their own opinions. My explanation of James 2 is clear enough.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So, if Jesus vomits you out of His mouth, how are you still in Him?

Those who understand metaphors know when NOT to apply them literally.

 

[EmSw]

Those who understand metaphors know when NOT to apply them literally.

Then tell us what 'vomit out of His mouth' means.

 

[-57]

So, if Jesus vomits you out of His mouth, how are you still in Him?

You're sick. Your post added nothing to the conversation but hostility.

 

[EmSw]

You're sick. Your post added nothing to the conversation but hostility.

Do you want me to tell Jesus that what He said is sick? Perhaps you can tell Him yourself.

 

[-57]

First, you admit that a person's future sins are forgiven a person. This means that a person can plan on sinnng with the thought they are saved. This is a license to sin. The other alternative is that sin causes a separation between God and man. So which is it?

Second, you left out an important detail in Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.


....

Tell me, WHY would a true follower of Christ want to do that? "Plan on sinning" You're argument makes absolutely no sense...which is why it is so weak. Sheeze, even Paul addressed the issue in Romans 6:1 What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
...so please stop with the license to sin argument.
When one sins after being saved and truly is in Christ...the sin doesn't separate us from God in a salvational way but rather in a fellowship way. This has been explained to you several times but you fail to understand the simplicity of it.

To the second point.....Romans 8:1..."who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." is describing what a christian walk should look like. As a christian in Christ who no longer faces condemnation because all their sins past, present and future were imputed to Christ at the cross we should be trying to walk after the Spirit rather than the flesh. Perhaps you noticed how many times we fail to walk after the Spirit and choose the flesh. Your theology condemns everyone with no hope of salvation because as christians we don't always walk after the Spirit. You seem to always be wanting to pull some secret or gnostic meaning from scripture that just isn't there to support your anti-OSAS theology.

 

[-57]

Do you want me to tell Jesus that what He said is sick? Perhaps you can tell Him yourself.

Get back to me when you truly understand the verse. If you want to discuss the verse...start a new thread. Currently all you have done so far is read it and didn't quite get the message in the letter.

 

[EmSw]

Get back to me when you truly understand the verse. If you want to discuss the verse...start a new thread. Currently all you have done so far is read it and didn't quite get the message in the letter.

Tell me what it means. I have no understanding like you do.

 

[-57]

Tell me what it means. I have no understanding like you do.

You can start here....

 

[EmSw]

You can start here....

Nothing there supports eternal security. In fact, the opposite is the majority view.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Tell me, WHY would a true follower of Christ want to do that? "Plan on sinning" You're argument makes absolutely no sense...which is why it is so weak. Sheeze, even Paul addressed the issue in Romans 6:1 What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
...so please stop with the license to sin argument.
When one sins after being saved and truly is in Christ...the sin doesn't separate us from God in a salvational way but rather in a fellowship way. This has been explained to you several times but you fail to understand the simplicity of it.

To the second point.....Romans 8:1..."who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." is describing what a christian walk should look like. As a christian in Christ who no longer faces condemnation because all their sins past, present and future were imputed to Christ at the cross we should be trying to walk after the Spirit rather than the flesh. Perhaps you noticed how many times we fail to walk after the Spirit and choose the flesh. Your theology condemns everyone with no hope of salvation because as christians we don't always walk after the Spirit. You seem to always be wanting to pull some secret or gnostic meaning from scripture that just isn't there to support your anti-OSAS theology.

So if you are not planning on sinning at some point in your future from a belief that says you are bound to slip up at some point over the rest of your life because of some human sinful nature that is stronger than God then you must believe in Sinless Perfectionism. Is that true?

In other words, if an alcoholic said to me that they were not planning on drinking and yet they also told me that they knew at some point in the future they were going to slip back into drinking again, then how is that alcoholic not planning on sinning again?


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[samir]

Tell me, WHY would a true follower of Christ want to do that?

No true Scotsman fallacy. Whenever a "follower of Christ" does that you can just claim he wasn't a true follower.

BTW, following Christ is a work since following Christ means obeying His commandments and doing God's will. Based on your theology of belief alone and OSAS, the question should be, "WHY would a person who previously believed something about Christ want to do that?" The answer is simple: They love their sin more than God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Then tell us what 'vomit out of His mouth' means.

It seems that nothing I explain gets in, but oh well, here goes:

In Rev 3:15-16 the Judge found nothing in this church to commend. Their works were not like cold water that refreshes, or like hot water that soothes and stimulates. They had no cool water for the spiritually thirsty people around them (cf Jn 4:13-14), nor were they hot enough spiritually to stir up one another's faith. In reality, this churh was ike water that was lukewarm, not fit for anything. Because of this the Lord told them that He will "vomit them out of His mouth", that is, punish them for their sin (cf. Lev 18:24-28).
From "The Grace New Testament Commentary", Vol 2, 2010, page 1269.

Now, the proper procedure when one disagrees with another is to provide a refutation of the view by using Scripture that contradicts the view, or by showing how the verses used by the one you disagree with don't actually teach what is being claimed.

So, your turn.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you want me to tell Jesus that what He said is sick? Perhaps you can tell Him yourself.

It should have been clear to anyone who read the post he was referring to your comment.

Your comments were just a deflection to avoid having to deal with truth that is quite inconvenient to your theology.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So if you are not planning on sinning at some point in your future from a belief that says you are bound to slip up at some point over the rest of your life because of some human sinful nature that is stronger than God then you must believe in Sinless Perfectionism. Is that true?

In other words, if an alcoholic said to me that they were not planning on drinking and yet they also told me that they knew at some point in the future they were going to slip back into drinking again, then how is that alcoholic not planning on sinning again? ...

That is SOOOOO FAR from planning, it isn't even up for debate.

Let me give you a "real world" example. A chess player plans all his moves in order to WIN. With me so far?

Now, can it be said that every chess player NEVER makes any mistakes when playing? Of course not.

So, any chess player who plans every move NEVER plans to make a mistake, even though he knows he is VULERNABLE to making a mistake.

But I sense that this will not make any sense to you.

For some very odd reason, it seems that knowing that we are VULNERABLE to sin equates to PLANNING on sinning, when NOTHING could be farther from the truth.

Unless one can prove that the word "knowing one is vulnerable" is equal to and means "planning on", then there is no point at all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is SOOOOO FAR from planning, it isn't even up for debate.

Let me give you a "real world" example. A chess player plans all his moves in order to WIN. With me so far?

Now, can it be said that every chess player NEVER makes any mistakes when playing? Of course not.

So, any chess player who plans every move NEVER plans to make a mistake, even though he knows he is VULERNABLE to making a mistake.

But I sense that this will not make any sense to you.

For some very odd reason, it seems that knowing that we are VULNERABLE to sin equates to PLANNING on sinning, when NOTHING could be farther from the truth.

Unless one can prove that the word "knowing one is vulnerable" is equal to and means "planning on", then there is no point at all.

No. Deliberately continuing to sin is not the same thing as making a mistake and trying to correct it later. In your view, we just can never learn from our mistakes. But this is not what life teaches us. In your view, you falsely think Christians are slaves to sin. But the Bible does not teach such a wrong concept.


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[-57]

Nothing there supports eternal security. In fact, the opposite is the majority view.

Nothing there was meant to support eternal security. You tried to use it to support the loss of ones salvation. So far you failed.

 

[-57]

So if you are not planning on sinning at some point in your future from a belief that says you are bound to slip up at some point over the rest of your life because of some human sinful nature that is stronger than God then you must believe in Sinless Perfectionism. Is that true?

In other words, if an alcoholic said to me that they were not planning on drinking and yet they also told me that they knew at some point in the future they were going to slip back into drinking again, then how is that alcoholic not planning on sinning again?


...

What in the world are you talking about?

Sometimes I sin...and I sin on purpose. I'll admitt it. I would imagine you and every other christian does the same. According to your theology....we lose our salvation when we do. I don't believe in that.