Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[-57]

No true Scotsman fallacy. Whenever a "follower of Christ" does that you can just claim he wasn't a true follower.

BTW, following Christ is a work since following Christ means obeying His commandments and doing God's will. Based on your theology of belief alone and OSAS, the question should be, "WHY would a person who previously believed something about Christ want to do that?" The answer is simple: They love their sin more than God.

Just trying to be honest here....like every christian...we sometimes love our sin more than God. Or else we would never sin.
There is no christian who can claim they don't sin.

 

[samir]

Just trying to be honest here....like every christian...we sometimes love our sin more than God. Or else we would never sin.
There is no christian who can claim they don't sin.

Ultimately each person chooses either sin or God. Only those who repent (detest their sins and turn toward God) will be saved. Those who love God above all else will be saved despite any sins they commit. Those who love their sin more than God will not be saved.

 

[-57]

Ultimately each person chooses either sin or God. Only those who repent (detest their sins and turn toward God) will be saved. Those who love God above all else will be saved despite any sins they commit. Those who love their sin more than God will not be saved.

I have to ask you this very serious question...what do you do when you realize you sinned? How many times do you fall in and out of salvation?

Just for the record...if you sin..and you do...it clearly shows you don't love God above all else...which puts you in a very, very bad place.

 

[samir]

I have to ask you this very serious question...what do you do when you realize you sinned? How many times do you fall in and out of salvation?

Justification is only lost when a person turns away from God, not every time a person sins. Justification is restored when a person repents (turns back to God).

Just for the record...if you sin..and you do...it clearly shows you don't love God above all else...which puts you in a very, very bad place.

Not necessarily. Many sin due to imperfection and the sinful nature.

 

[EmSw]

Nothing there was meant to support eternal security. You tried to use it to support the loss of ones salvation. So far you failed.

How is one IN Christ when He vomits them out?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What in the world are you talking about?

Sometimes I sin...and I sin on purpose. I'll admitt it. I would imagine you and every other christian does the same. According to your theology....we lose our salvation when we do. I don't believe in that.

I believe in a lot of cases, God gives his children a chance to repent of their sins. For God can convict his children of their sins and God can chastise his children. God is long suffering towards all of us (2 Peter 3:9); And the goodness of God leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4).

However, if a person is seeking to live for sin in some way then they need to repent and get their heart right with God. For Jesus said repent or perish. Also, there are also instances where a sin was so great that even a believer was struck down dead immediately. This was not some kind of reward for them (that they could enter early into heaven because of their sin), but it was condemnation for their sin (whereby they would be facing judgment in the fire for their wickedness).


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[Bible Highlighter]

What in the world are you talking about?

Sometimes I sin...and I sin on purpose. I'll admitt it. I would imagine you and every other christian does the same. According to your theology....we lose our salvation when we do. I don't believe in that.

When one's belief declares that they will sin at some point in the future because of their human nature, they are making an excuse to sin. This is premeditative sin (even if one did not know which sin they would commit). So the day when that person sins, they will just shrug their shoulder's and say "oh well, I suppose it was just my human nature to sin because it is inevitable."

Yes, there are sins that are done on purpose and sins that a man does not intend to do, but when a person has a belief that says that they will always sin at some point in some unknown date in the future is admitting that they are a slave to their sinful condition. They are siding with sin and evil and not God and His righteousness. They have given up the battle before they even start. They are defeated. Living to serve both their sin and God. But Jesus says you cannot serve two masters, for you will hate the one and love the other.

Also,

When a person says they will always sin at some point in the future (as a part of their sinful nature), there is no such thing as working out your salvation with fear and trembling as the Scriptures say, either.

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[FreeGrace2]

No. Deliberately continuing to sin is not the same thing as making a mistake and trying to correct it later.

And that is exactly your problem; you've equated the knowledge that knowing that one will sin with deliberately sinning. That's exactly what my real world example showed.

In your view, we just can never learn from our mistakes.

It's not about learning. Go back to my real world example and study it for a while.

But this is not what life teaches us. In your view, you falsely think Christians are slaves to sin. But the Bible does not teach such a wrong concept....

Oh, how wrong you are. The apostle Paul strongly disagrees with your views.

"Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?" Rom 6:16

Just before this verse, he wrote this:

"12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace."

Do you understand the choice every believer has in whether to either be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walk by His means (Gal 5:16), or to grieve (Eph 4:30) and quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit?

Eph 5:18 is a command. How often do you obey this command?

Eph 4:30 and 1 Thess 5:19 are commands to stop doing it. How often do you obey this command?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ultimately each person chooses either sin or God. Only those who repent (detest their sins and turn toward God) will be saved.

Your soteriology is far removed from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Justification is only lost when a person turns away from God, not every time a person sins. Justification is restored when a person repents (turns back to God).

yo-yo theology.

Does Dramamine ease the dizziness?

Not necessarily. Many sin due to imperfection and the sinful nature.

Uh, that's THE reason we sin. Not "many", but all of us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And that is exactly your problem; you've equated the knowledge that knowing that one will sin with deliberately sinning. That's exactly what my real world example showed.

It's not about learning. Go back to my real world example and study it for a while.

But while sin can be a mistake, it is not on the same level of a mistake as say messing up in a chess game. The analogy is flawed because it seeks to miminize sin. Sin is very serious to God and He does not take it lightly if anyone does sin. God is holy just and righteous. A person having a mere belief alone is not going to cut it. For when does a belief alone help you? Can you pay your bills with a belief alone? Can you be married to the woman of your dreams with a belief alone? Can you have a perfectly chiseled body with a belief alone? Surely not. Salvation includes both faith and works. For works are an outflow of one's faith.

Oh, how wrong you are. The apostle Paul strongly disagrees with your views.

"Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?" Rom 6:16

I do not know how you think this helps your belief, but it actually proves the Biblical Conditional View and not Eternal Security.
Paul says you have a choice here. A person can be a slave to sin or they can be a slave to righteousness. Christians are slaves to righteousness (Which leads to eternal life) and Christians are not slaves to sin. Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you. If a believer goes back to being a slave to sin, they are going to face death (and they would not be considered a faithful believer in the Lord). For the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness.

Just before this verse, he wrote this:"12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace."

Yes, sin can reign in a believer's body. But what happens as a result if they do continue in that way?
I will tell you, they will face death and not life. For this is the analogy Paul makes.

Do you understand the choice every believer has in whether to either be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walk by His means (Gal 5:16), or to grieve (Eph 4:30) and quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit?

Eph 5:18 is a command. How often do you obey this command?

Eph 4:30 and 1 Thess 5:19 are commands to stop doing it. How often do you obey this command?

I do not drink anymore and I never had a problem with drinking either.

As for grieving the Spirit: What will happen if you continue to grieve the Spirit? Surely nothing good.
For if a man speaks bad words against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven in this life or the next one (i.e. the Millennium).


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[-57]

Justification is only lost when a person turns away from God, not every time a person sins. Justification is restored when a person repents (turns back to God).

Poor you...I hope when you die you die on a good cycle.

As for me...ALL...of my sins were imputed to Christ Jesus at the cross.

 

[-57]

How is one IN Christ when He vomits them out?

Dude, we've been through this already.

You can start here....

 

[-57]

I believe in a lot of cases, God gives his children a chance to repent of their sins. For God can convict his children of their sins and God can chastise his children. God is long suffering towards all of us (2 Peter 3:9); And the goodness of God leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4).

However, if a person is seeking to live for sin in some way then they need to repent and get their heart right with God. For Jesus said repent or perish. Also, there are also instances where a sin was so great that even a believer was struck down dead immediately. This was not some kind of reward for them (that they could enter early into heaven because of their sin), but it was condemnation for their sin (whereby they would be facing judgment in the fire for their wickedness).


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Here you go again with your...be as best as you can or perish doctrine.

Someday you'll realize that's not how it works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here you go again with your...be as best as you can or perish doctrine.

Someday you'll realize that's not how it works.

Just stating your opinion about your belief here does not mean you are right. I mean, do you ever wonder why you can't make a parable out of Eternal Security? Why do so many plainly written verses or words have to be distorted to say something else in order to fit OSAS?

For in Eternal Security,

"Faith is dead" (from having no works) does not mean "faith is dead."

"Fear" does not mean "fear."

"Save your soul" does not mean "save your soul."



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[Gabriel Anton]

Peace be with you.

Let's break down believe to more simple terms.

God says, "You believe me, you're saved."

God says, "You don't believe me, you're damned."

God says, "To believe me, you need to believe my 10 points of instructions."

If a person believes only 9 points, does the person believe God?

If a person believes only 9 points, does the person not believe God?

God bless you.

 

[Freedom Now]

I looking through the script a bit, but can't find the idea of OSAS , unless I take a few small

snippets from the script, and I could build my house on that.

That be kind of like reading only 1 Corinthians 14,.....Make love your aim.....and not read the rest of
the script...
And when God hold your life in front of you and points out , adultery, fornication, sexual immorality, etc

I can just see your answer now,.....
But Lord, it is written right in the script.........make love your aim.....

Matthew 25, 31-46.... probably does a better job then I did here to bring the point across.

Both groups addressed in the passage, called the Son of Man.....Lord.



But I have found "eternal security" in the script, very clear too, leaves no doubts in my mind.

Actually it is found in the same passage mentioned earlier Matthew 25, 31-46...

I will just quote a little snippet of it.....

Then HE will answer them,..

Truly, I say to you, as you DID it NOT to one of the least of these, you DID it NOT to Me?

And they will go away into ETERNAL punishment,

but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE.



There is your eternal security, either one or the other, but it is ETERNAL.


And reading the snippet of text, the One that spoke those words, mentioned something

about proper works.


Makes one ponder the idea that belief only might just not do it....


May God open our eyes to see.

 

[-57]

Just stating your opinion about your belief here does not mean you are right. I mean, do you ever wonder why you can't make a parable out of Eternal Security? Why do so many plainly written verses or words have to be distorted to say something else in order to fit OSAS?

For in Eternal Security,

"Faith is dead" (from having no works) does not mean "faith is dead."

"Fear" does not mean "fear."

"Save your soul" does not mean "save your soul."



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Dude, it's getting old. You can't lose your salvation.
If you want to believe you can...HAVE AT IT.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dude, it's getting old. You can't lose your salvation.
If you want to believe you can...HAVE AT IT.

I am not the author of God's Word. God is the author. I mean, stop and think for a moment. How can a name be blotted out of the book of life if one's name cannot be removed from the book of life?

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[samir]

Your soteriology is far removed from Scripture.

Acts 2:38