Advice on whether I should be on the left or right?

[Larniavc]

I dunno, I am just stuck a loss in regards to how psychopathic those in power are.

But at the same time, I believe I have free-will and if I had any choice in the matter I would attempt to not allow myself to be a slave if this were the odds I was facing. Like I dunno, I think God wants me to kick anyone in the nuts who wants to take my freedom.

God came to me in a dream amd he said "the rich and powerful are psychopathic Nazi's. My bad, lol. You have my permission to kick people in the nuts who try and take away your freedom, lol sorry"

I’m not sure Jesus would be happy with you roshamboing people but it’s not really my wheel house.

 

[Francis Drake]

Well, I think it is just one groups arrogance in thinking that they can effectively rule over most of mankind, democracy be damned. Either that, I wonder as well if it is racial supremacy as well, and exists from a line of thinking in that there can be only one race that can have hegemony, or left to prosper and floruish whilst everyone else is left by the wayside as minoriities to their supreme rulers and are left without hardly any rights.

I see articles and news journalistic outlets saying that America and in general "liberal democracy" has had it's time and is only in decline, and I think "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]" if there is no liberal democracy, then that is not a civilization I want to be a part of or tolerate. That's just completely deprogressive and backwards to me. It just makes me want to think that half of the world is still behind us, or dare I say, stuck in the paleo neolithic era.

No, its not just one group's arrogance.
The Globalist elite control both the left and the right of all politics whether in the USA or where I live in the UK.

The Clintons or Bushes of this world are in the same camp. I don't want to get into a debate about him, but currently Trump is an outsider and a bit of an enigma because he is hated by the elite of his own party, just as much as by the left. Millions of Republican voters wanted Trump precisely because he was not an established part of the Elite brought up through the party system.

Here's an example of the utter banality of the left.
In Britain a few years back, as happened in the Occupy Wall Street movement, we had an Occupy movement in central London. They encamped in the Plaza of St Paul's Cathedral. These people were mainly left wing activists, protesting against the big banks and global corporations. Apart from creating a filthy mess, they complained and campaigned for about 8 months with the open support of the left.

Move forward a couple of years and the campaign proper starts for the referendum to get the UK out of the EU. And of course, the biggest supporters of the UK's continued membership of the EU are the liberal left of the Occupy movement and other socialists.

So, what's my point. To answer that, lets look who was bankrolling the campaign to keep Britain a vassal state under the thumb of the EU.
Among other global corporations and big bank donations, US Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and Citibank £Millions to the Remain camp. These global banks were at the heart of the crash that the occupy movement were protesting against, now these leftie idiots are their servants in trying to stop part of their global empire being dismantled.

 

[Waggles]

@BlackSabbath
Don't waste too much time fretting about the good and evil of politics
and economics.
The Bible says emphatically that the love of money is the root of all evil.
Meditate on that. That is a profound truth.

And being 2018 I believe the world will be at war involving the big players.
Nationalism in Turkey is a wild card.
A NATO member allied with Russia !!??
The problem to Turkey of the Kurds and their nationalistic aspirations.
Damascus is predicted in Isaiah 17 to be completely destroyed to rubble.
Could happen this year.

Like I wrote earlier so much conflict bubbling away everywhere.
Eventually the pot will overboil and the lid comes off.
Then being Left or Right will count for nothing.

 

[Halbhh]

Well I'm beginning to see the hypocrisy involed with the right currently in America. I see mamy of them complaining about the effdcts of globalism and immigrarion but yet are these not the effects of being so very capitalist for such a long time?
It makes me amgry and think then that the ownership and means of production should be kept in the people's hands to avoid potentional conflicts or problems that may arise like this in the future.

That being said, I am very fond of liberal idealogies in theory but in practice I hsve often felt a little disapointed and let down. I have always been fond a lkittle bit of individuality, but I am told it is a product of capitalism, but I do not altogether nor do I think individiuality is something that is the product of a market based economy. It is either something innate or not, allowing a person's creative powers to flourish unhmapered by any external devices of control.

The only probem is I have seen in real life, large groups attempting to co-operate and I see the group mindset start to kick in and all of a sudden you are either with the group, or you ostracized. The realities for me of a situation start to become manifested and I start to think if not because of all our differences we have conflict but instead perhaps deep down we are simply not all 'equal' in a sense?

I am attempting to go through a lot of political stuff right now, but it is all just so complicated.

I am not a communist, but I have been quite fond of libertarian socialism in the past, questions, thoughts?

Why has the U.S. been successful?

We think: Freedom, the Rule of Law...
But how many realize some old economics ideas implemented in the U.S. from the 19th century have done wonders for us?

Instead of 'left' and 'right' to learn more in economics, and if you spent hundreds of hours you would eventually discover more fundamental and key ideas already widely implemented (here in the U.S. and many nations) from the 19th century from the economist Henry George.
Georgism - Wikipedia
(useful definition: 'rent' -- whoever controls a limited resource can extract rent from other people on it, including not only well situated land, but also water supplies, oil supplies, and more)

Though we use Georgism a lot in the U.S., we could use it even more and benefit more. Or we could reverse it, as some politicians offer to us occasionally without knowledge. We could stop using it, which would damage our economy in ways that would surprise people, since they are unaware of the economics involved.

But, that's only economics, and not the deeper wisdom we need to know to have a good life!

For a good life, one needs true wisdom, and that means the greatest Teacher in the view of most of humanity over the centuries. Here's a pretty good account of some of what He said:

Luke 1 NIV

 

[BlackSabbath]

Why has the U.S. been successful?

We think: Freedom, the Rule of Law...
But how many realize some old economics ideas implemented in the U.S. from the 19th century have done wonders for us?

Instead of 'left' and 'right' to learn more in economics, and if you spent hundreds of hours you would eventually discover more fundamental and key ideas already widely implemented (here in the U.S. and many nations) from the 19th century from the economist Henry George.
Georgism - Wikipedia
(useful definition: 'rent' -- whoever controls a limited resource can extract rent from other people on it, including not only well situated land, but also water supplies, oil supplies, and more)

Though we use Georgism a lot in the U.S., we could use it even more and benefit more. Or we could reverse it, as some politicians offer to us occasionally without knowledge. We could stop using it, which would damage our economy in ways that would surprise people, since they are unaware of the economics involved.

But, that's only economics, and not the deeper wisdom we need to know to have a good life!

For a good life, one needs true wisdom, and that means the greatest Teacher in the view of most of humanity over the centuries. Here's a pretty good account of some of what He said:

Luke 1 NIV

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], but what about all thr people who can't pay "rent" and end up homeless? They started charging the pessants and workers "rent" in medievsl Britian whrn they wouod not stop mutiplying and then I guess they actually tried to flesh it out into an actual theory.


The real estate industry makes a killing off of things like this. In Montreal, one of my favorite places in Canada, it is notoriously french Canadian with the people there being somewhat weary of outsiders. The cost of living there is some of the lowest in Canada simply because of their culture and as well, Montreal hasn't let the real estate industry demolish older property and build huge condos and apartment buidlings or reinovate whenever the real estate industry wants to because it just rises the cost of everything, so it is still affordable there, and it has one of the best art scenes in Canada, and the older buildings have more character to them anyway and I quite like them.

But I guess, people need cheese to chase. Canada has become awful in this way now, we're suffering for art and creativity and everyone is just becoming a freaking workaholic where people keep their heads down to the grind stones all of the time and I think this is partially why it's causing a war and the West is drstroying itself from the inside.Everyone has become more miserable, shallow, and materialistic and way too expensive it's just awful and nasty. But what left is there to self but continually rise the price on human life or existence then since they can't make as much money any other way?

 

[BlackSabbath]

Oh and for the U.S being succesful, well the West is full of very strong hardy people, I will give it that. I think the one of the few groups that were actually able to beat the Red Coat imperial British army at the time? A part of my mart will always belong to the West, but unfortunately it has just been too full of greed and corruption since it's inception really.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sorry, it's hard for me to sit back and not feel burdened when i know that possibly I could be potentionally contributing to a system which seeks to leave much of the world in impoverished conditions and at least I can know whether or not it really needs to be that way.

Lay down, place a cold towel on your head, and that feeling will pass.

The best thing you can do for the world is to be a good person.

 

[Halbhh]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], but what about all thr people who can't pay "rent" and end up homeless? They started charging the pessants and workers "rent" in medievsl Britian whrn they wouod not stop mutiplying and then I guess they actually tried to flesh it out into an actual theory.


The real estate industry makes a killing off of things like this. In Montreal, one of my favorite places in Canada, it is notoriously french Canadian with the people there being somewhat weary of outsiders. The cost of living there is some of the lowest in Canada simply because of their culture and as well, Montreal hasn't let the real estate industry demolish older property and build huge condos and apartment buidlings or reinovate whenever the real estate industry wants to because it just rises the cost of everything, so it is still affordable there, and it has one of the best art scenes in Canada, and the older buildings have more character to them anyway and I quite like them.

But I guess, people need cheese to chase. Canada has become awful in this way now, we're suffering for art and creativity and everyone is just becoming a freaking workaholic where people keep their heads down to the grind stones all of the time and I think this is partially why it's causing a war and the West is drstroying itself from the inside.Everyone has become more miserable, shallow, and materialistic and way too expensive it's just awful and nasty. But what left is there to self but continually rise the price on human life or existence then since they can't make as much money any other way?

Reading your post, I think you will really like Georgism, which helps reduce the problem (of rentier unfairness) you are pointing at, and is about how all the Earth should be owned only and always by all the people. That all citizens of a country should equally share in *all* natural resources of that country, fully equally. Instead of landlords extracting exorbitant rents for shoddy little apartments in desired locations (like Manhattan periphery for instance) that location value, which is created by all of the people, together, itself is the property of all of the people, so that all of the people, as a whole should share that value equally. Georgism is about how to do that in a way that encourages and supports the free enterprise freedom we also benefit from. We are imo something like 1/4th or 1/3rd or so of the way to full Georgism in the U.S., for a long time (more than 100 years now), and it's helped us a lot compared to what the U.S. would look like without it, in terms of equality. And done so without harming freedom.

 

[Waggles]

I think the one of the few groups that were actually able to beat the Red Coat imperial British army at the time?

Yes but only with Mel Gibson's help.

 

[BlackSabbath]

Reading your post, I think you will really like Georgism, which helps reduce the problem (of rentier unfairness) you are pointing at, and is about how all the Earth should be owned only and always by all the people. That all citizens of a country should equally share in *all* natural resources of that country, fully equally. Instead of landlords extracting exorbitant rents for shoddy little apartments in desired locations (like Manhattan periphery for instance) that location value, which is created by all of the people, together, itself is the property of all of the people, so that all of the people, as a whole should share that value equally. Georgism is about how to do that in a way that encourages and supports the free enterprise freedom we also benefit from. We are imo something like 1/4th or 1/3rd or so of the way to full Georgism in the U.S., for a long time (more than 100 years now), and it's helped us a lot compared to what the U.S. would look like without it, in terms of equality. And done so without harming freedom.

Isn't that basically socialism?

 

[BlackSabbath]

Lay down, place a cold towel on your head, and that feeling will pass.

The best thing you can do for the world is to be a good person.

Well, I just want to find a proper political leaning. I used to always be very loberal but grew disheartened as it seems a large majority of individuals are kind of selfish, cunning and manipulative. Talking to a lot of leftists, it made me almost given up on it altogether as many of them seem mostly motivated by profit amd liars, either that or wholly lacking in common sense. Why is it then that, so few will honestly admit what their goals or motives are? It always feels like most people are hiding something.

 

[mark kennedy]

Coming from not a very um, privileged back ground and knowing full well what it is to struggle. I can say that I will always be on working class peoples side.

I just wonder sometimes if we can really get a real functioning democracy up and running that isn't open to foul play or manipulation, and fasle idol worship. (Um false idol worship)

No I don't think you get democracy without corruption, what you get is a balance of powers. Paul describes idolatry in Colosians 3 as 'sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desire and greed', which is according to the beloved Apostels to the Gentiles, 'idolatry'. We should be less concerned with the idolatry in the world as you should face the idolatry of your earthly nature. I seldom get an argument on this point so moving on.

Jesus was rightful heir to the throne of David, he could have over threw Her or and seized the throne but choose instead to preach the gospel and disciple believers. Ive always thought the church is better off staying away from politics whenever possible. When we do engage in political issues a balanced approach is advisable. I am not a conservative and not exactly a very good partisan Democrat. What works for me is a moderate political view and a special emphasis on making your political choices based on issues, not partisan party lines.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, I just want to find a proper political leaning. I used to always be very loberal but grew disheartened as it seems a large majority of individuals are kind of selfish, cunning and manipulative. Talking to a lot of leftists, it made me almost given up on it altogether as many of them seem mostly motivated by profit amd liars, either that or wholly lacking in common sense. Why is it then that, so few will honestly admit what their goals or motives are? It always feels like most people are hiding something.

Liberals usually take the short view, conservatives the long view. Which describes you? Of course the irony is that people's views usually get longer the older they get, so age plays a role. There is this saying (I added the last line),

"If at 20 you are not a liberal, you have no heart.
If at 40 you are not a conservative, you have no brain.
If at 60 you are not a complete cynic, you haven't been paying attention."

OldWiseGuy-Senior Cynic

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Reading your post, I think you will really like Georgism, which helps reduce the problem (of rentier unfairness) you are pointing at, and is about how all the Earth should be owned only and always by all the people. That all citizens of a country should equally share in *all* natural resources of that country, fully equally. Instead of landlords extracting exorbitant rents for shoddy little apartments in desired locations (like Manhattan periphery for instance) that location value, which is created by all of the people, together, itself is the property of all of the people, so that all of the people, as a whole should share that value equally. Georgism is about how to do that in a way that encourages and supports the free enterprise freedom we also benefit from. We are imo something like 1/4th or 1/3rd or so of the way to full Georgism in the U.S., for a long time (more than 100 years now), and it's helped us a lot compared to what the U.S. would look like without it, in terms of equality. And done so without harming freedom.

This is communism.

 

[FenderTL5]

truncated for brevity

The Globalist elite control both the left and the right of all politics whether in the USA or where I live in the UK.

The Clintons or Bushes of this world are in the same camp. I don't want to get into a debate about him, but currently Trump is an outsider and a bit of an enigma because he is hated by the elite of his own party, just as much as by the left. Millions of Republican voters wanted Trump precisely because he was not an established part of the Elite brought up through the party system...
..Among other global corporations and big bank donations, US Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and Citibank £Millions to the Remain camp. These global banks were at the heart of the crash that the occupy movement were protesting against..

Donald Trump ran as an outsider, certainly. However, He has as many, if not more ex-Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan execs/lobbyist/attorneys in his administration as any prior.
imho, Trump policy is Trump benefiting - period.
If it benefits him, he will oppose his own party or vice-versa.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a single populist policy decision since taking office.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I heard it said a while back.

If you are young and not a liberal then you have no heart.

If you are old and not a conservative then you have no brains.

************************************

Just food for thought.
I was a Liberal when I was young.
I'm a Conservative now (66 years old).

M-Bob

 

[Halbhh]

Isn't that basically socialism?

No -- I'm terrible at writing clearly sometimes I think. That's the problem. Me. My poor writing.

It's very unlike socialism.

I think of Socialism as when the state/government doing one or both of two basic things:

1) Owning the means of production partly or entirely, and thus the government/state itself is a factory/business owner and employer.

AND/OR

2) The extent to which the state not only provides public goods like free roads, schools, parks, and basic public services like police and courts, but additionally above those also does actual caretaking of citizens, such as for example Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid (which are a different class of things, not like schools/roads/etc.), among other such.

For example, in the U.S. we have zero socialism of the 1rst kind (or very close to 0), and we have only a modest amount of U.S. socialism of the 2nd kind, close to about roughly 10% of GDP.

Georgism isn't even slightly like socialism. Not even slightly.

Instead it's just what 60% or 70% of all the people think is the good stuff in the U.S. -- real free enterprise and capitalism but with some real fairness in that land, air, water, and natural resources like coal, oil, fish in the ocean, etc. are all thought of as ultimately public owned goods that are *leased* or *rented* or regulated/taxed out to private individuals/businesses just like we already do in a large variety of ways, from public auctions of radio frequencies, the revenue of which goes to government, to local property taxes, the revenue of which goes to public run free services like schools and fire departments and parks, etc.

In other words, Georgism is what people think of *already* as the normal American system without socialism. I think of the U.S. as about 1/4 to 1/2 of the way to full Georgism, which would be much like what we already have (e.g., real estate profits to private individuals would under full Georgism only from the improvements (houses and such) on land, and not free windfalls of extra profit above this to owners from location value, which is instead taxed by land tax adequately to capture as revenue to government to rebate to all citizens as money and/or pay for government services like schools, etc., just as is already the case. Already we do use this revenue to pay for government services like free schools. It's already what we do.). And people merely don't realize the actual effect of property taxes or government leasing of oil rights and taking of royalties, etc.

It's a matter of economic literacy/education, really.

 

[Halbhh]

In view of #37, then if it's already the case, already normal, then what am I advocating? That we not fall for the slick talking politicians that want to end Georgism by doing things like giving away trees in forests for artificially low prices to private loggers, and the same with coal, and fresh water, etc.

Giving away public property that belong to all of us for free to private loggers/miners.

Like as if someone came to your local park, dug up some trees that you and your neighbors just planted, and carried them away -- stole them -- to be theirs in their own yard somewhere miles away. Like that.

Same for local corrupt or merely ignorant pandering politicians who say it's good to lower land value taxing, as if the human race doesn't ultimately own the Earth (which is from God for all of us), but instead it should be privately held only by fortunate owners who can get control and hold it forever without land tax rent to the rest of humanity (worst case example: imagine a giant corporation buying a large portion of an entire state and just owning it without paying any land tax at all, and then raising rent and lease prices on all the people to extract wealth from them for the right to live, to exist).

The value of land as location to live and work on rightfully is for all the human race together, from God.

Instead of lower land value taxes, we should tax the full location value of land and use it to not only pay for the free public services like public schools and parks, but additionally to refund/rebate the money to all citizens per capita equally, as all human beings in truth own Earth together, our human race inheritance from God. It's not something that a few should own and make the rest pay for. They can rightfully own the houses and buildings and all else that they actually buy or build or pay for, but not the essential space-to-exist itself in a monopoly manner. Like some families being forever artificially extra rich through permanent monopoly rent, and other families being forever the artificially extra poor renters (paying even to just exist), with no possible change. (wonder if the way I'm wording it is clear or just confusing....)

 

[Halbhh]

I bet the word "Georgism" sounds like some crankpot idea.

Instead of simply what American has done for over 100 years everywhere, and all recognize as the norm already.

 

[Halbhh]

This is communism.

No -- I'm terrible at writing clearly sometimes I think. That's the problem. Me. My poor writing.

It's actually what your are used to, and your city/town/state has done since the 19th century, or longer.

It's "free enterprise, capitalism, and public schools financed by property taxes" to sorta oversimplify (and all the rest of Georgism is also what's been here from *pre 1900*, all of it over 100 years old in the U.S.).

Actually, even longer than I thought -- just found out it's from the American Founding Fathers, too.

"Jefferson brought his friend Pierre du Pont to the United States to promote the idea.[4] A statement in the 36th Federalist Paper reflects that influence, "A small land tax will answer the purpose of the States, and will be their most simple and most fit resource." (wiki, Land Value Tax)

This is as old as the hills.
(Henry George only figured out the economics and extended the idea fully, nothing more. He wasn't the first, but probably someone in ancient Greece or who knows)

But people don't understand it, most people. That is, they don't know why land value tax is fair or good. They just don't know about it.

I think it needs a new name.

We could call it the "Traditional American Way" or something more helpful like that.