Advice on whether I should be on the left or right?

[BlackSabbath]

Well I'm beginning to see the hypocrisy involed with the right currently in America. I see mamy of them complaining about the effdcts of globalism and immigrarion but yet are these not the effects of being so very capitalist for such a long time?
It makes me amgry and think then that the ownership and means of production should be kept in the people's hands to avoid potentional conflicts or problems that may arise like this in the future.

That being said, I am very fond of liberal idealogies in theory but in practice I hsve often felt a little disapointed and let down. I have always been fond a lkittle bit of individuality, but I am told it is a product of capitalism, but I do not altogether nor do I think individiuality is something that is the product of a market based economy. It is either something innate or not, allowing a person's creative powers to flourish unhmapered by any external devices of control.

The only probem is I have seen in real life, large groups attempting to co-operate and I see the group mindset start to kick in and all of a sudden you are either with the group, or you ostracized. The realities for me of a situation start to become manifested and I start to think if not because of all our differences we have conflict but instead perhaps deep down we are simply not all 'equal' in a sense?

I am attempting to go through a lot of political stuff right now, but it is all just so complicated.

I am not a communist, but I have been quite fond of libertarian socialism in the past, questions, thoughts?

 

[mukk_in]

Well I'm beginning to see thd gypocricy involed with the right currently in America. I see mamy of them complaining about the effdcts of globalism and immigrarion but yet are these not the effects of being so very capitalist for such a long time?
It makes me amgry and think then that the ownership and means of production should be kept in the people's hands to avoid potentional conflicts or problems that may arise like this in the future.

That being said, I am very fond of liberal idealogies in theory but in practice I hsve often felt a little disapointed and let down. I have always been fond a lkittle bit of individuality, but I am told it is a product of capitalism, but I do not altogether nor do I think individiuality is something that is the product of a market based economy. It is either something innate or not, allowing a person's creative powers to flourish unhmapered by any external devices of control.

The only probem is I have seen in real life, large groups attempting to co-operate and I see the group mindset start to kick in and all of a sudden you are either with the group, or you ostracized. The realities for me of a situation start to become manifested and I start to think if not because of all our differences we have conflict but instead perhaps deep down we are simply not all 'equal' in a sense?

I am attempting to go through a lot of political stuff right now, but it is all just so complicated.

I am not a communist, but I have been quite fond of libertarian socialism in the past, questions, thoughts?

Be on Jesus's side son and don't worry about the rest. God bless .

 

[Waggles]

I am not a communist, but I have been quite fond of libertarian socialism in the past, questions, thoughts?

You should take the straight and narrow road that leads to life.
There is no salvation in political action for worldly causes.
Yes we all have values and are offended and upset at news stories and
bad things that happen.
But the world is lost in sin and both sides justify their actions, their violence,
their hypocrisies, their team.
You cannot save the world. You cannot save yourself.

God calls people out of the world and gives them his Holy Spirit, and then disciples
are required to separate themselves from the world and unto holy living.
We are in an unique privileged position of knowing in advance the destruction
of this world and all of its wickedness.
No amount of politics will make any difference to the fate of the world.

But through the gospel of salvation you can have hope starting with yourself,
and then also hopefully for your family and friends, neighbours, work mates...

Sure I listen to the news and watch some YouTube videos [so many conspiracies]
but I do not rush out and join the vanguard of the revolution.
I talk to people about Jesus and salvation.
Lots of people are concerned about what is happening in the world but do not
have any answers.
Jesus is the answer. The only answer that really matters.

 

[BlackSabbath]

You should take the straight and narrow road that leads to life.
There is no salvation in political action for worldly causes.
Yes we all have values and are offended and upset at news stories and
bad things that happen.
But the world is lost in sin and both sides justify their actions, their violence,
their hypocrisies, their team.
You cannot save the world. You cannot save yourself.

God calls people out of the world and gives them his Holy Spirit, and then disciples
are required to separate themselves from the world and unto holy living.
We are in an unique privileged position of knowing in advance the destruction
of this world and all of its wickedness.
No amount of politics will make any difference to the fate of the world.

But through the gospel of salvation you can have hope starting with yourself,
and then also hopefully for your family and friends, neighbours, work mates...

Sure I listen to the news and watch some YouTube videos [so many conspiracies]
but I do not rush out and join the vanguard of the revolution.
I talk to people about Jesus and salvation.
Lots of people are concerned about what is happening in the world but do not
have any answers.
Jesus is the answer. The only answer that really matters.

Well yes, I would agree to an extent but this is not a theologian board so much as it is a political one. I know that often times the foibles of human nature cannot altogether be corrected, but at least their can be an attempt to rectify, or allieviate some of the potentional socio-politcal scenarios which often cause conflict.

I mean, we cannot all sit around praying to God or Jesus all of the time, we need to do things and thus certain attempts or actions must be made to keep civil life orderly and functioning properly. Proclaiming a religion does not altogether put one in a vacuum removed from the events of the rest of the world.

There are often real and concrete variety of situation that can take root in causing a host of social ailments and discrepancies if not out right disputes, and some of them are quite simple and practical. It's like saying that we only have laws or property rights because some people are astutely holy enough or something. It's just one of those things that need to exist for civil society to function adequately.

 

[mark kennedy]

Sounds like you are a left leaning moderate. From what Ive seen they are controling national politics. Conservatives like their liberal counter parts tend to go to extremes. That is an attempt to move theire base in a certain direction. Dont let it trouble you, just stay up on the issues and you will find you are in pleasant company with those of us who crowd the middle, always room for another left leaning moderate. You are well on your way to being a fulcrum, shift your support as you consciience dictates, you can't go wrong.

 

[Waggles]

What I am saying is that the rise of nationalism - conflicts between peoples
large and small who define themselves by ethnic or regional or national identities
is the sign of the last days > the end times.
It is interesting that for all the globalism and free trade efforts of the last thirty years
that this has not quenched nationalism and conflicts.
Scotland wanting to leave.

Open borders and the free flow of goods and peoples has generated a political backlash
[Brexit for example].
Jesus foresaw all of this 2,000 years ago. Amazing.
Nationalism is Bible prophecy happening before our eyes.

 

[BlackSabbath]

Sounds like you are a left leaning moderate. From what Ive seen they are controling national politics. Conservatives like their liberal counter parts tend to go to extremes. That is an attempt to move theire base in a certain direction. Dont let it trouble you, just stay up on the issues and you will find you are in pleasant company with those of us who crowd the middle, always room for another left leaning moderate. You are well on your way to being a fulcrum, shift your support as you consciience dictates, you can't go wrong.

Coming from not a very um, privileged back ground and knowing full well what it is to struggle. I can say that I will always be on working class peoples side.

I just wonder sometimes if we can really get a real functioning democracy up and running that isn't open to foul play or manipulation, and fasle idol worship. (Um false idol worship)

 

[BlackSabbath]

What I am saying is that the rise of nationalism - conflicts between peoples
large and small who define themselves by ethnic or regional or national identities
is the sign of the last days > the end times.
It is interesting that for all the globalism and free trade efforts of the last thirty years
that this has not quenched nationalism and conflicts.
Scotland wanting to leave.

Open borders and the free flow of goods and peoples has generated a political backlash
[Brexit for example].
Jesus foresaw all of this 2,000 years ago. Amazing.
Nationalism is Bible prophecy happening before our eyes.

What was what we had even peace? There has been identity politics, political correctness, no free speech, almost like completely open borders, terrorist bombings. The last time for me was the Aria Grande concert, it was absolutely disguisting for me. Then the bombing in New york not too long ago. (I hardly see any one discussing these matters openly as well, so no democracy in this regard either)

Whoever gets into the state, they can push any kind of agenda or policy and doctrine in place, force it on an unsuspecting population and then call it "peace" and make it mandatory and that's what they do with communism, or when they attempt to concentrate all the power to the state and institutions.

What I see is mostly out of control business practices being implemented and catering to foreign interest, which then expecting or wanting those who are economically being disadvanged to just cave or fold to all of these demands and be "liberal" or whatever but I am sure it would just be to their specific rule or command.

 

[Francis Drake]

What I am saying is that the rise of nationalism - conflicts between peoples
large and small who define themselves by ethnic or regional or national identities
is the sign of the last days > the end times.
It is interesting that for all the globalism and free trade efforts of the last thirty years
that this has not quenched nationalism and conflicts.
Scotland wanting to leave.

Open borders and the free flow of goods and peoples has generated a political backlash
[Brexit for example].
Jesus foresaw all of this 2,000 years ago. Amazing.
Nationalism is Bible prophecy happening before our eyes.

That's completely daft, you obviously don't read history or your bible.
Nationalism has been around since God's division of the languages at Babel. It was God's stated intention to divide mankind into countless separate nations to halt the evils that one world government would produce.
Genesis11v6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Globalism is a Satanic attempt to recreate Babel once again. The globalist's New World Order government will be a tyrannical antichrist government.

 

[BlackSabbath]

That's completely daft, you obviously don't read history or your bible.
Nationalism has been around since God's division of the languages at Babel. It was God's stated intention to divide mankind into countless separate nations to halt the evils that one world government would produce.
Genesis11v6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Globalism is a Satanic attempt to recreate Babel once again. The globalist's New World Order government will be a tyrannical antichrist government.

Well, I think it is just one groups arrogance in thinking that they can effectively rule over most of mankind, democracy be damned. Either that, I wonder as well if it is racial supremacy as well, and exists from a line of thinking in that there can be only one race that can have hegemony, or left to prosper and floruish whilst everyone else is left by the wayside as minoriities to their supreme rulers and are left without hardly any rights.

I see articles and news journalistic outlets saying that America and in general "liberal democracy" has had it's time and is only in decline, and I think "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]" if there is no liberal democracy, then that is not a civilization I want to be a part of or tolerate. That's just completely deprogressive and backwards to me. It just makes me want to think that half of the world is still behind us, or dare I say, stuck in the paleo neolithic era.

 

[BlackSabbath]

I guess what I worry about in regards to things like libertarian socialism: for such a thing to work there would have to be something like a revoltuion, or at leadt organized action on the people's behalf. But I worry, what's to stop some one like Stalin from getting into place? I've heard stories that he was likewise, a spy and was hired to purposely sabotage their efforts.

I just see this happening a lot. Otherwise, I see most attempts at liberalism kind of failing if it is out of the hands of the people too much, or in regards to those who are in power right now. How fo you trust anyone with such a task and hold them to transparent and trustworthy to the responsibilities or duties they are given? I guess again as far as democracy goes, I see a lot of people being really naivand it backfiring in this sense.

Plusi just look at any attempt at real social change in the past, like with the kennedy assasinations, it seems like those who are really in power are almost impossible to over throw.(hence spies)
That being said, it seems more sensible and modern for the future to be more liberal and less capitalist, as i don't think it really makes sense any more and even seems a little barbaric to me.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well I'm beginning to see thd gypocricy involed with the right currently in America. I see mamy of them complaining about the effdcts of globalism and immigrarion but yet are these not the effects of being so very capitalist for such a long time?
It makes me amgry and think then that the ownership and means of production should be kept in the people's hands to avoid potentional conflicts or problems that may arise like this in the future.

That being said, I am very fond of liberal idealogies in theory but in practice I hsve often felt a little disapointed and let down. I have always been fond a lkittle bit of individuality, but I am told it is a product of capitalism, but I do not altogether nor do I think individiuality is something that is the product of a market based economy. It is either something innate or not, allowing a person's creative powers to flourish unhmapered by any external devices of control.

The only probem is I have seen in real life, large groups attempting to co-operate and I see the group mindset start to kick in and all of a sudden you are either with the group, or you ostracized. The realities for me of a situation start to become manifested and I start to think if not because of all our differences we have conflict but instead perhaps deep down we are simply not all 'equal' in a sense?

I am attempting to go through a lot of political stuff right now, but it is all just so complicated.

I am not a communist, but I have been quite fond of libertarian socialism in the past, questions, thoughts?

When I played soccer at high school my regular position was Left Right Out.

 

[BlackSabbath]

When I played soccer at high school my regular position was Left Right Out.

I've had trouble fitting in have been ostracized for much of my life, hence my views on collectivism or the crowd in general is not all together positive.


I find many to be fickle and prone to being quite superificial and petty. This is why I think I've slowly started to lose my empathy a bit and I have witnessed through much observation that it seems to me, quite easy to kind of manipulate or take advantahe and even lead people. Cults are just a great example of this. I think though in general, any group, organization is quite fallible to the same demands and faults no matter how pure or upstanding it's intentions were in the first place. I see it all the time, generally strong willed and charismatic people for all kinds of reasons manipulate their way to positions of affluence amd leadership, and quite often, many are too passive or subordinate to really cause conflict or any strife.

 

[Larniavc]

Well I'm beginning to see the hypocrisy involed with the right currently in America. I see mamy of them complaining about the effdcts of globalism and immigrarion but yet are these not the effects of being so very capitalist for such a long time?
It makes me amgry and think then that the ownership and means of production should be kept in the people's hands to avoid potentional conflicts or problems that may arise like this in the future.

That being said, I am very fond of liberal idealogies in theory but in practice I hsve often felt a little disapointed and let down. I have always been fond a lkittle bit of individuality, but I am told it is a product of capitalism, but I do not altogether nor do I think individiuality is something that is the product of a market based economy. It is either something innate or not, allowing a person's creative powers to flourish unhmapered by any external devices of control.

The only probem is I have seen in real life, large groups attempting to co-operate and I see the group mindset start to kick in and all of a sudden you are either with the group, or you ostracized. The realities for me of a situation start to become manifested and I start to think if not because of all our differences we have conflict but instead perhaps deep down we are simply not all 'equal' in a sense?

I am attempting to go through a lot of political stuff right now, but it is all just so complicated.

I am not a communist, but I have been quite fond of libertarian socialism in the past, questions, thoughts?

Let ‘left’ or ‘right’ be descriptive rather than prescriptive.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I've had trouble fitting in have been ostracized for much of my life, hence my views on collectivism or the crowd in general is not all together positive.


I find many to be fickle and prone to being quite superificial and petty. This is why I think I've slowly started to lose my empathy a bit and I have witnessed through much observation that it seems to me, quite easy to kind of manipulate or take advantahe and even lead people. Cults are just a great example of this. I think though in general, any group, organization is quite fallible to the same demands and faults no matter how pure or upstanding it's intentions were in the first place. I see it all the time, generally strong willed and charismatic people for all kinds of reasons manipulate their way to positions of affluence amd leadership, and quite often, many are too passive or subordinate to really cause conflict or any strife.

Try "reverse engineering" that to write the opposite so that it gives a positive statement about yourself as a child of God. That can be very faith building and an antidote for disillusionment.

 

[BlackSabbath]

Try "reverse engineering" that to write the opposite so that it gives a positive statement about yourself as a child of God. That can be very faith building and an antidote for disillusionment.

But what does how I feel towards God or not have to do with the external power structures which currently govern or control the world?

Are the conditions which keep the world as it is permanent and without any sway or suggestion? Completely concrete or malleable? Whether or not I believe in God, does this have any or merit or standing on the conditions of the world as it stands.

My lessons in life has taught me another matter almost entirely. I in all honesty find many to be quite oppertunistic and unable to see the repercussions of their actions on the greater whole.

If everyond just wanted peace, it would not be that difficult to achieve, yet that's not what we have and every measure or action seems to be counter to this very matter or dilemna.

 

[BlackSabbath]

Let ‘left’ or ‘right’ be descriptive rather than prescriptive.

Sorry, it's hard for me to sit back and not feel burdened when i know that possibly I could be potentionally contributing to a system which seeks to leave much of the world in impoverished conditions and at least I can know whether or not it really needs to be that way.

 

[BlackSabbath]

I guess being a moderately expressed liberal is still okay, but are in parties ever moderate? I wonder if such a thing exists with election canidates or parties?


Oh wait, what, you want to be liberal? Okay wait, *outsources all jobs, gives all sources of livliehood away to cheaper working foreign labour* *both political parties decide to be on the right* *country declines even further at drastic pace, almost turns to Soviet Union* *spread liberal ideas en masse, suddenly, majority of countrymen, especially country men, lose all motive, drive, and decide they don't want to support exploitative capitalist polices and demands, lose all jobs*

I was thinking though, if we were ethical capitalist with maybe a socialist flair, we could just make everything really expensive so that if anyone wamts to compete or wants more then everyone else, they'd have to work really, really hard, but then I thought, this would fundementally be like slavery, and suddenly many people,yet would try to keep up with this standard and then attempt in spite to suddenly be not liberal at all in hope that cost of living would go down.

 

[Larniavc]

Sorry, it's hard for me to sit back and not feel burdened when i know that possibly I could be potentionally contributing to a system which seeks to leave much of the world in impoverished conditions and at least I can know whether or not it really needs to be that way.

That’s always going to be the way with any decision that you make.

There is always a risk of unintended harm following your actions.

But there is no way to predict it so it is out of your hands.

You believe in God, correct? With that perspective it is all part of his plan so if you do the best that you can to follow Jesus’ example you should be doing okay.

You’re never going to get life 100% perfect: I’m reliably informed only one being is.

 

[BlackSabbath]

That’s always going to be the way with any decision that you make.

There is always a risk of unintended harm following your actions.

But there is no way to predict it so it is out of your hands.

You believe in God, correct? With that perspective it is all part of his plan so if you do the best that you can to follow Jesus’ example you should be doing okay.

You’re never going to get life 100% perfect: I’m reliably informed only one being is.

That’s always going to be the way with any decision that you make.

There is always a risk of unintended harm following your actions.

But there is no way to predict it so it is out of your hands.

You believe in God, correct? With that perspective it is all part of his plan so if you do the best that you can to follow Jesus’ example you should be doing okay.

You’re never going to get life 100% perfect: I’m reliably informed only one being is.

I dunno, I am just stuck a loss in regards to how psychopathic those in power are.

But at the same time, I believe I have free-will and if I had any choice in the matter I would attempt to not allow myself to be a slave if this were the odds I was facing. Like I dunno, I think God wants me to kick anyone in the nuts who wants to take my freedom.

God came to me in a dream amd he said "the rich and powerful are psychopathic Nazi's. My bad, lol. You have my permission to kick people in the nuts who try and take away your freedom, lol sorry"