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I'll just comment on one point...Yes, it is impossible for anyone to keep the commandments as Jesus described them.
Please look up the original Greek text, neither Textus Receptus nor Greek minority Text contains that passage "washed their robes white" instead of "do the commandment". If you don't have Interlinear bible, you can look it up on www.blueletter.orgNASB, GWT, ASV, BBE, DBY, WEY, NIV, AMP. There may be more, but those are the ones I saw when I briefly looked.
Jim,Eila,
Is there anything you do now after being saved that is considered sin? Is there anything you do now after being saved to cause you to be lost?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Please look up the original Greek text, neither Textus Receptus nor Greek minority Text contains that passage "washed their robes white" instead of "do the commandment". If you don't have Interlinear bible, you can look it up on www.blueletter.org
How do you presume I'm just going to dismiss what you say? Have I not tried to provide scriptural references in our discussion so far?
I said IJ is a key issue in
I have posted many times on atonement. But in case you haven't seen it, atonement means to restore the original condition: the face to face relationship between man and God. That relationship is not restored until His second coming to receive the believers back to heaven.
Rev 16:17 & 21:6 both declares 'It is done' just prior to Christ's return. Have you considered maybe that is the completion of the atonement?
Have you thought about the possibility maybe Jesus is waiting for that last soul that possibly could be saved? He's waiting to save as many as possible. But one day He will say enough is enough.
I'll just comment on one point...
Consider these texts...
1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandment and we are asked to follow His example of not sinning. Do you think He will ask us to do something impossible?
And furthermore...
1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
It says God will not allow us to be tempted beyond we are able to resist. How can we say it's impossible to keep the law.
Please look up the original Greek text, neither Textus Receptus nor Greek minority Text contains that passage "washed their robes white" instead of "do the commandment". If you don't have Interlinear bible, you can look it up on www.blueletter.org
I'll just comment on one point...
Consider these texts...
1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandment and we are asked to follow His example of not sinning. Do you think He will ask us to do something impossible?
Peter did admonish us to let Jesus be our example. [SIZE=+2]Your reasons for this is taken out of context by proof texting to support you ideas about sinnless perfection.[/SIZE] Thats not what this passage is about. You cant just pull the text away from its context to make it say what you want it to say. Thats not what the bible is for. If you want the truth of the passage read the context. In it you will find that Peter was warning them to be faithful in there relationship with Christ that God may glorified and the foolish silenced.
And furthermore...
1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
It says God will not allow us to be tempted beyond we are able to resist. How can we say it's impossible to keep the law.
Because the bible also says
(Rom 3:23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
AT
Eila,
Is there anything you do now after being saved that is considered sin? Is there anything you do now after being saved to cause you to be lost?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Jim,
Is there anything you did or do that 'causes' you to be saved?
The only thing I can do to lose my salvation is to give back the gift of salvation and walk away from God forever.
Then you do NOT believe we are saved by grace (alone), through faith (alone), and not by works, because you believe that you are involved with saving yourself.Of course there is. I gave my heart to the Lord, I surrendered my will to His. I continue to take up my cross each day to follow Him. These are all acts of faith that WORK to save me and lead to my sanctification.
I'd like to ask a question of my SDA friends here. I know what I believed about EGW as an Adventist, but I do not know if what I believed about her was standard. Do all or most accept her as a prophet? If so, does that mean all her writings are inspired? If so, what does "inspired" mean? Can you be an Adventist and not accept EGW as a prophet? I'm sure there are various opinions here.
I know of many Adventists who do not accept EGW as a prophet yet remain Adventists. Many also disagree with other traditional Adventist beliefs but still consider themselves Adventists. In fact, we have a Progressive SDA subforum in our congregational area to accommodate those who do not accept all 28 fundamental beliefs. I don't consider myself a very traditional Adventist on many issues. And, yes, you will hear varying opinions on EGW here and even in the Adventist forum itself.
Of course there is. I gave my heart to the Lord, I surrendered my will to His. I continue to take up my cross each day to follow Him. These are all acts of faith that WORK to save me and lead to my sanctification.
Then you do NOT believe we are saved by grace (alone), through faith (alone), and not by works, because you believe that you are involved with saving yourself.
I can't give anything, I cannot surrender (for sure 100%), and I can't take up my cross. He does all of these things for/through/in (even in spite of) me! I trust in Jesus Christ to save me 100% (And no, the trust I place in him was his gift to me too! I didn't trust him before he came and rescued me!)
Eila said:As a PW I'm sure you are familiar with the range of beliefs. So there are people who believe she was not a prophet? Do those people totally reject what she has to say or do they view her like another Christian writer?
You're right! In fact, it's the ONLY unique doctrine to Seventh day Adventism! All one has to do is go back to the beginning of how the doctrine was established and take it from there. It has become extremely complex and complicated since the first vision of it on October 23, 1844. It's an onion with so many layers that it gets very confusing trying to understand it (which is no accident!).
ALL SDA's need to understand how the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment was arrived at. Many would be shocked to discover it's roots. They should go all the way back to William Miller's 15 proofs for the second coming and REALLY understand what he used to try and prove Christ was coming! Many thinking individuals would be shocked at how flimsy the 'proofs' are. But they are the same EXACT basis for arriving at the Investigative Judgment! HUGE assumptions were made that most SDA theologians today would scoff at. Miller was no theologian, but a farmer. And he was wrong!
I would challenge any SDA to go back to the beginning and work from there. After 160 plus years of trying to make the Bible fit into the IJ, it is extremely complicated to peel back the layers of the SDA onion. But it's quite easy to understand it from the beginning. Check it out! After all, SDA's are the ONLY one's who believe it and they came up with it! Nobody else accepts it. You owe it to yourself to discover how it all came about!
It is impossible for anyone to completely keep the 10 commandments. Do you or anyone you know keep them completely? Have you ever felt anger towards your brother? Have you ever lusted (ever)?
The text you referenced is not talking about keeping the commandments perfectly or not sinning, but suffering for Christ.
2 Peter 1"20But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22"He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth."[e] 23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed."
We are dead to sins and alive to righteousness. We are sinless by only accepting His sinless life as our own.
Who do you know who has ever kept the law perfectly? Jesus has made us more than conquerors over sin. We have the victory over sin. The law brings death, not life. When you focus on the law you will always fall short.
Galatians 3 "
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
Romans 7 "6But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life]."
Either way "wash their robes" or "keep commandments" it doesn't matter. What we define the commandments to be are different anyway.
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