Adam's Reward

[joshua 1 9]

Those are the only two "books" mentioned,

You have got to be kidding, the Bible talks about a lot more books then just the two you mention.

 

[The Righterzpen]

You have got to be kidding, the Bible talks about a lot more books then just the two you mention.

Well, what other books does the Bible speak about other than itself, the book of life, and the record of people's deeds? There are reference to things humans have written; but that has nothing to do with a "library in heaven".

 

[joshua 1 9]

Well, what other books does the Bible speak about other than itself, the book of life, and the record of people's deeds? There are reference to things humans have written; but that has nothing to do with a "library in heaven".

Psalm 139:16 "all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." Psalm 56:8 "You have taken account of my wanderings; You have put my tears in Your bottle. Are they not in Your book?" David actually talks about five different books.

Earth is a shadow of Heaven. That is why we pray for God's will to be done as in Heaven. If we have libraries on Earth then that means we have books and libraries in Heaven. The main point is we have all wisdom, knowledge and understanding available to us.

2 that they may be encouraged in heart, knit together in love, and filled with the full riches of complete understanding, so that they may know the mystery of God, namely Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col2:3

The mystery of God are only hidden to those who are perishing. We have all treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Past, present & future.

All means all, it means each and every. God supplies all of our needs. He provides an abundance above and beyond all we could ever think or imagine. You can only imagine two books in Heaven. If you went to a library here on Earth and there were only two books would you consider that to be an abundance above and beyond all you could ever think or imagine?

The Bible by the way - contains 66 books written by 40 people over a 1500 year period of time. All based on a better understanding of the Torah or the 5 books of Moses. Written in Hebrew. The NT is hidden in the OT. And the old is revealed in the New Testament.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Psalm 139:16 "all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." Psalm 56:8 "You have taken account of my wanderings; You have put my tears in Your bottle. Are they not in Your book?" David actually talks about five different books.

Earth is a shadow of Heaven. That is why we pray for God's will to be done as in Heaven. If we have libraries on Earth then that means we have books and libraries in Heaven. The main point is we have all wisdom, knowledge and understanding available to us.

2 that they may be encouraged in heart, knit together in love, and filled with the full riches of complete understanding, so that they may know the mystery of God, namely Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col2:3

The mystery of God are only hidden to those who are perishing. We have all treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Past, present & future.

All means all, it means each and every. God supplies all of our needs. He provides an abundance above and beyond all we could ever think or imagine. You can only imagine two books in Heaven. If you went to a library here on Earth and there were only two books would you consider that to be an abundance above and beyond all you could ever think or imagine?

The Bible by the way - contains 66 books written by 40 people over a 1500 year period of time. All based on a better understanding of the Torah or the 5 books of Moses. Written in Hebrew. The NT is hidden in the OT. And the old is revealed in the New Testament.

Both those psalms you quote talk about "a book". One book. They are probably a reference to the book of life.

Certain things on / about earth testify to the attributes of God. The creation itself is a witness to who God is and what His salvation plan is. This is how all of humanity is accountable for their sin, even if they never were exposed to the written revelation of who God is. The amazing thing is that although men can be condemned by the witness of the creation; they can also be redeemed by it. Those who were / are atoned for; even if they've never heard of Jesus will see Him in this creation. This creation bears testimony, but that does not mean that everything that exists on earth, exists in heaven.

Certain things about earthly life are what they are for reasons that are solely connected to earth. For example, there are wars on earth and people get killed in them. There was one war in heaven, but no-one in heaven "died" because of it. That war was to bar Satan's access to God's domain and came about as a result of Christ's victory; in which He commenced the plundering of Satan's kingdom.

Another example of something very fundamental that happens on earth, but does not happen in heaven is reproduction. Entities in heaven do not reproduce. There's no need to, because there's no death. This is why Jesus says that those raised to eternal life are like the angels, they neither marry or are given in marriage. And this is because there is no death any longer. The command to creation to "be fruitful and multiply" came about because God knew (He'd accounted and planned for) the fall.

The verse in colossians you quoted "Christ, in whom is all wisdom and knowledge". Jesus was "the word of God made flesh" but he was not a book. And this is why I said God doesn't need a library to impart knowledge because He never "forgets" anything. Scripture says if you desire wisdom ask God; who gives liberally. No where in Scripture does it ever say to ask your angel to look something up in a library. We are not to pray to angels. That's what got Eve into trouble in the first place. She listened to another entity that told her how to be wise. We want knowledge and wisdom, we don't get that from angels, we get it from God. It comes strait from the top. That's the way it's always been, that's the way it always will be and that's the way God wants it. A library in heaven is a nice idea. It's a quaint idea. It's something humanity can relate to; but on account of the nature of who and what God is; it isn't necessary.

Now ironically, the very first books written, were accounting records. They were lists and inventories of things, as well as laws that governed societies. Now if you look at the two books spoken of in heaven, what are they? One is the "book of life". What's in that? A chronology of the lives of the elect. The book that lists the deeds of the unregenerate. What is that for? It's part of a judiciary proceeding. The inditement if you will. These books are not books of wisdom so to speak. They are books of accounting; that serve a particular purpose related to salvation and condemnation.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Jesus was "the word of God made flesh" but he was not a book.

We are told: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," The "Jewish" people believe that the Hebrew alphabet is the language God used when He created the World. I am doing a study to learn Hebrew right now and the meaning of the different letters are very interesting to learn. If we want to understand the Bible we need to understand the letters used to make the words we find in our Bible. Frances Collins book talks about how DNA is the language of Life and this is the language God uses to create.

If you run a google search on "library in Heaven" quite a bit of information will come up. You can study this if the subject interests you. I had a dream about my daughter in Heaven and one of the angels that was there watching her was reading the book of her life that David talks about. He was reading her book so he knew how to work with her to help her to become the person God created her to be.

We are told there is a great university in Heaven and million of people attend. It is interesting that you conceive of learning without the use of books. Although we are told that books are different in Heaven. For example they could be a hologram that is more like going to a movie then reading a book. I tend to do a lot of this on YouTube. I may attend a lecture at Harvard or listen to a sermon. At one time there was an oral tradition, but today most all the knowledge has been recorded and is open for anyone interested in learning.

 

[The Righterzpen]

We are told: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," The "Jewish" people believe that the Hebrew alphabet is the language God used when He created the World. I am doing a study to learn Hebrew right now and the meaning of the different letters are very interesting to learn. If we want to understand the Bible we need to understand the letters used to make the words we find in our Bible. Frances Collins book talks about how DNA is the language of Life and this is the language God uses to create.

If you run a google search on "library in Heaven" quite a bit of information will come up. You can study this if the subject interests you. I had a dream about my daughter in Heaven and one of the angels that was there watching her was reading the book of her life that David talks about. He was reading her book so he knew how to work with her to help her to become the person God created her to be.

We are told there is a great university in Heaven and million of people attend. It is interesting that you conceive of learning without the use of books. Although we are told that books are different in Heaven. For example they could be a hologram that is more like going to a movie then reading a book. I tend to do a lot of this on YouTube. I may attend a lecture at Harvard or listen to a sermon. At one time there was an oral tradition, but today most all the knowledge has been recorded and is open for anyone interested in learning.

Apparently we have different belief systems.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Apparently we have different belief systems.

I do not really have a belief system as much as I spend up to 18 hours a day to read and study my Bible and Bible related subjects like Science and Ancient History, Archaeology, Genealogy and so on. I do not have a problem to study under the Rabbi's because they know the Hebrew Language and I find a lot of Christians fall way short in their understanding of the Bible. Esp the Torah that we received from Moses. I do not really trust the interpretations and translations. I believe we have to study the original language. For example a famous passage is: "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". If you look in the original Greek we read "I have power in the One who cloths me in Strength". In Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one". God and Jesus are one and we are to become one with Them. We are to be clothed in our wedding garment. Here when we become one with Jesus we are clothed in Strength. I have a problem with the word IT and THINGS. We should do all we can to eliminate the use of words like that in our translations.

 

[The Righterzpen]

I do not really have a belief system as much as I spend up to 18 hours a day to read and study my Bible and Bible related subjects like Science and Ancient History, Archaeology, Genealogy and so on. I do not have a problem to study under the Rabbi's because they know the Hebrew Language and I find a lot of Christians fall way short in their understanding of the Bible. Esp the Torah that we received from Moses. I do not really trust the interpretations and translations. I believe we have to study the original language. For example a famous passage is: "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". If you look in the original Greek we read "I have power in the One who cloths me in Strength". In Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one". God and Jesus are one and we are to become one with Them. We are to be clothed in our wedding garment. Here when we become one with Jesus we are clothed in Strength. I have a problem with the word IT and THINGS. We should do all we can to eliminate the use of words like that in our translations.

Here's what I go by. The Bible is its own dictionary, commentary and interpreter. If I have a question about a passage in the Bible, I will find the answer in the Bible. So that's where I look for it.

Granted those answers aren't alway obvious and we often have to dig for them; but if we have the humility to admit both what we don't know as well as hunt for the answer, God will show us these answers.

The main theme if the Bible is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Everything we read in the book will relate to that (God's salvation plan) in some way or another.

I do not believe God has confined Himself to specific languages; that being said though, it is helpful to study the Greek and Hebrew. Hebrew is a unique language in that it is a language of descriptors as opposed to "word nuance" as English and even Greek is more like. (Greek is more like English than Hebrew is.) Taking words and phrases as they related to God's salvation plan will always guarantee to "hit the target". The interesting thing about this though is that it often produces interpretations with various nuances, not all exactly the same but all theologically contextually "right". Translation is a bit "linguistic science" and a bit guess work of what makes the most sense in relation to the over all theme of Scripture. Obviously some translations are better than others; but God does not tell us we have to know Greek and Hebrew to understand His word, message or redemption plan. Studying Greek and Hebrew is helpful and often enlightening, but our knowledge of a language is not what saves us. The work of Christ is what saves sinners.

Now, I don't read commentaries or history in order to "get my theology". I read them for information sake, to know what this person or that thought at any given time and at times I find they may be dead on. Other times they aren't.

So no, I don't take a lot of stock in what other people have said about the Bible. Yet I'm more inclined to pay closer attention to Christians who understand redemption well. I find no value in listening to teacher of an apostate religion who rejects Jesus Christ. Rabbis will tell you what Judaism thinks; but that's not necessarily what God thinks.

If you study history, how well do you know history? Do you know that modern Judaism is not Mosaic Judaism and what we have today is a further right of 1st century Pharisees. These are the people who brought the full weight of their loathing down upon their own Messiah who was first sent to them! Now to take a 2000 years of morphology and say there is real wisdom there is absolutely ludicrous. I will take passages from both the Old and New Testaments to explain to me what they mean; not the word of some rabbi. Thanks!

This is how I study the Bible: line upon line, precept upon precept.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The main theme if the Bible is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Everything we read in the book will relate to that (God's salvation plan) in some way or another.

That is exactly what we find in the Letters of the Hebrew word for Beginning. The word begins with the second letter of the Hebrew. The first two letters of the word means Ben. This represents the Son. So we see that in the beginning God gave His son as a grain offering so that Heaven and earth could become ONE. Which is exactly what YOU just said. We are told there are no coincidences in life. Of courses A represents God the Father or the head. He existed before the beginning. The A symbol upside down represents an Ox head and the horns represent power and strength. We know that God is Infinite so each and every letter has infinite meaning and understanding. We can spend our whole life to study the word beginning or even the first letter of the first word. At the end of our life we will still only be beginning to understand.

Studying Greek and Hebrew is helpful and often enlightening, but our knowledge of a language is not what saves us. The work of Christ is what saves sinners.

I study up to 18 hours a day to keep my mind on God. So I am not distracted by things that do not represent God. I try to be heavenly minded. I am descended from a Bible translator that was Bloody Mary's first Martyre. Along with his family they rejoiced, celebrated and were glad that he was worthy to be martyred for Christ. I rejoice for any understanding we are given regardless of whatever "school" we may or may not belong to. Actually the Bible college I attended I was more persecuted for attending then I was commended as I should have been. Because it does take effort to apply our-self to learning and understanding. As far as I know I have never received any money for my service so that has never been a motivation for me in serving God.

Do you know that modern Judaism is not Mosaic Judaism

I tend to imagine that everyone is a secret closet Christian and they do not want to admit it. I try to think the best of people. Christ is not hidden from us and I can do nothing about who He is hidden from. Other then to do my best to help them come to a saving knowledge of the truth.

We are told that during the Tribulation period that there will be 144,000 "Jews" that have kept themselves pure before God. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. They will represent God here on Earth during this 7 year period of time. The age of Grace will have come to an end and the world will receive exactly what they claim to want. Seven years of living under the law. Then the earth will be cleansed with fire and we will begin the 1,000 year reign of Christ. We will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years. Co heirs of Christ. 2Tim2:1 If we endure (ὑπομένομεν (hypomenomen) we will reign together with Him συμβασιλεύσομεν (symbasileusomen).

Of all the haplogroups (Y chromosome and MtDNA J group) Clearly Adam and Eve were the most recent and the Bible says the least or the smallest of them all. Deut 7:7 "The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people"

This is how I study the Bible: line upon line, precept upon precept.

Context is my confirmation. I study each individual word and each letter that makes up the word in the Torah. We spend a lot of time on the first word and the first letter of the first word. Because God declares the End from the Beginning. David tells us He writes the book of our life before we are even born. We are given all of our gifts, talents & abilities at conception. Gerald Schroelder PhD tells us that there are over 200,000 Science book in the Harvard University Library that help to explain the first 32 verses in Genesis chapter one. The rest of the sentence usually explains the meaning of the word. For example the rest of verse one: "God created the heavens and the earth" is all explained in the meaning of the letters in the word beginning.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The work of Christ is what saves sinners.

We are saved through the Blood of Jesus. The Blood washes and Cleanses our Garment. Rev 7:14 "They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white" Heb 9:22b "without the shedding of Blood there is no forgiveness."

 

[The Righterzpen]

That is exactly what we find in the Letters of the Hebrew word for Beginning. The word begins with the second letter of the Hebrew. The first two letters of the word means Ben. This represents the Son. So we see that in the beginning God gave His son as a grain offering so that Heaven and earth could become ONE. Which is exactly what YOU just said. We are told there are no coincidences in life. Of courses A represents God the Father or the head. He existed before the beginning. The A symbol upside down represents an Ox head and the horns represent power and strength. We know that God is Infinite so each and every letter has infinite meaning and understanding. We can spend our whole life to study the word beginning or even the first letter of the first word. At the end of our life we will still only be beginning to understand.

I study up to 18 hours a day to keep my mind on God. So I am not distracted by things that do not represent God. I try to be heavenly minded. I am descended from a Bible translator that was Bloody Mary's first Martyre. Along with his family they rejoiced, celebrated and were glad that he was worthy to be martyred for Christ. I rejoice for any understanding we are given regardless of whatever "school" we may or may not belong to. Actually the Bible college I attended I was more persecuted for attending then I was commended as I should have been. Because it does take effort to apply our-self to learning and understanding. As far as I know I have never received any money for my service so that has never been a motivation for me in serving God.

I tend to imagine that everyone is a secret closet Christian and they do not want to admit it. I try to think the best of people. Christ is not hidden from us and I an do nothing about who He is hidden from. Other then to do my best to help them come to a saving knowledge of the truth.

We are told that during the Tribulation period that there will be 144,000 "Jews" that have kept themselves pure before God. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. They will represent God here on Earth during this 7 year period of time. The age of Grace will have come to an end and the world will receive exactly what they claim to want. Seven years of living under the law. Then the earth will be cleansed with fire and we will begin the 1,000 year reign of Christ. We will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years. Co heirs of Christ. 2Tim2:1 If we endure (ὑπομένομεν (hypomenomen) we will reign together with Him συμβασιλεύσομεν (symbasileusomen).

Of all the haplogroups (Y chromosome and MrDNA) Clearly Adam and Eve were the most recent and the Bible says the least or the smallest of them all. Deut 7:7 "The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people"

Context is my confirmation. I study each individual word and each letter that makes up the word in the Torah. We spend a lot of time on the first word and the first letter of the first word. Because God declares the End from the Beginning. David tells us He writes the book of our life before we are even born. We are given all of our gifts, talents & abilities at conception. Gerald Schroelder PhD tells us that there are over 200,000 Science book in the Harvard University Library that help to explain the first 32 verses in Genesis chapter one. The rest of he sentence usually explains the meaning of the word. For example the rest of verse one: "God created the heavens and the earth" is all explained in the meaning of the letters in the word beginning.

Where in the Scripture does it tell us to look in words and letters of words for "spiritual meaning"? That is part of Gematria, which is something that came out of the Babylonian captivity. No where does the Scripture tell us to study it that way.

Now the "great tribulation" and the "millennial reign". Ephesians 1:20-21 tells us that Christ began to reign upon rising from the dead. (What does that tell us about "the millennium"?) Did you know the term "thousand years" in Revelation is in the plural?

Daniel 9:27 says "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease…" Now a lot of Bible commentators ascribe this to a 7 year tribulation. Which is true that this passage ascribes to a tribulation; but that tribulation is (as stated here) "for one week".

BUT - when we start looking at the gospels, we see some interesting things:

1. We have Mary anointing Jesus's feet "6 days before the Passover". This occurred on the Friday (Thursday after sundown) prior to the sabbath that fell the day before the triumphant entry into Jerusalem. The seventh day would have been the day of the crucifixion.

Verse 24 of Daniel 9 says that "70 weeks are determined upon the people and upon the holy city…." Verse 27 states that this ends on "the consummation". The next time table we are given is "three score and two weeks" (62 weeks). Than another 8 weeks to the consummation. The "consummation" is Pentecost. 70 weeks before that is the death of John the Baptist. 62 weeks from the death of John the Baptist, going toward Pentecost is the Friday before the crucifixion.

This lands us right were we started - 6 days before the Passover with Mary and anointing Jesus's feet. Jesus states (of this event) that "she has reserved this against the day of my burial". This commences what is called in the Scripture "the great tribulation".

2. Three days later, oil was poured over Jesus's head. He states this is done for his burial. (His burial commenced that night.) 3 days and 3 nights later he's dead. This is the "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". This event falls on the heels of the last day he spends in the temple teaching. That day, he spent explaining to the people the destruction of the Jewish religion and warned them of future events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem. By the time we get to 70 AD (destruction of the temple) and 93 AD (Herod Agrippa II dies); we have the end of the nation. Jesus also makes some references to judgement day at the end of time; but states that he does not know when that will happen.

3. Within the context of the discussion of the dismantling of the old testament system and the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus talks about the tribulation. He says that it will be cut short, because if it is not cut short, no flesh would be saved.

So the tribulation commences with Mary anointing Jesus's feet and ends at the Passover. (It's cut short by a little less than a day.) So what happens at the end of the Passover? Jesus is confronted with the angel of death. Exodus says the angel of death will pass through the land at midnight.

Where is Jesus at midnight? He's in Gethsemane.

Now what is Gethsemane? A Gethsemane is a cave that houses an olive press. There were several Gethsemane(s) around the mount of olives because it was an olive grove and this is where they crushed the olives to make oil for the lamps in the temple. Contrary to popular belief "Gethsemane" was not a garden. Jesus was in a garden before he ends up in Gethsemane, but Gethsemane was not a garden. Now they went into this cave to escape the cold, because a lot of people stayed in these caves as lodging during the passover.

So, what happens while Jesus is in this Gethsemane? He's confronted with an angel. (Luke 22:43). Now the English says this angel "strengthens him" but the Greek actually says the angel "shows a display of strength (or force) before (against) him".

Next question: How is Jesus acting before he encounters this angel and how does he act after?

Jesus says "My soul is swallowed up in death…." and just prior to this he becomes "exceedingly sorrowful". This "sorrowfulness" is a process that's been happening for a couple of days now. It started Tuesday night after being "anointed for burial" and becomes progressively worse until the night of Passover.

So if the breath of life is what makes a person "a living soul"; all the angel of death has to do is remove the breath of life and the person dies. Now Jesus is confronted with the angel of death, but he doesn't physically die. Why is this? This is because of his Divine nature. Now if he didn't have a Divine nature, at this point he would have been physically dead; but since the Divine nature has yet to be severed from the human nature, he's still alive. For all intent and purpose though, his soul has been severed from his personhood; reserved in Sheol to await the death of his body. This is where he "preached to spirits in prison". (1 Pete 3:19) Also Acts 2:27 & 31 say "you have not left my soul in hell, nor will suffer your holy one (body) to see decay.

The next event to happen is the arrest, trial, beating, Peter's denial (3 AM), Pilate, Herod, Judas returns money to the temple is told "See too it yourself." Pilate, Barabbas, Pilate washes his hands before the public. Tells the public "See too it yourselves." The people say "Let his blood be on us and our children." (6 to 7 AM), condemnation, Judas goes and hangs himself, flogging, mocking, crucifixion (9 AM), sun darkened (noon), death, veil rent (3 PM), burial (before sundown), Saturday The Sabbath, resurrection (3 AM Sunday morning).

So from the point of the encounter with the angel of death, Jesus's soul is rent from his personhood. He goes through all the following events till just before his death pretty much emotionless.

The Crucifixion:

There are four things recorded that Jesus utters just before he dies, but of those 4 phrases the first one that is quasi comprehendible to anyone witnessing this is "Eli Eli lama sabach thani.". The priests think he's calling Elisha. The second phrase "I thirst." was probably only heard by the soldiers and is stated that he said this because he recognized "all had been accomplished". At that point he's given vinegar and hyssop; (which is a mild sedative); which he drinks. Prior to this he'd been given vinegar and sour wine, which he'd refused.

The next two phrases "Into your hands I commend my spirit" and "It is finished" are recorded for us as interpretations of what is intended, yet to the people witnessing this, it looks like delirious screaming. The Greek indicates that the noise Jesus makes sounds like the screeching of a crow. (He's breaking down cognitively at this point because his personhood is being destroyed.) Keep in mind that the sun is still darkened and has been darkened for about 3 hours.

Which phrase came first is unclear from the text, because the sequence is derived from combining the accounts in two different gospels. The "it is finished" is followed by "bowed the head"; which appears to be the last thing that happened.

The last thing recorded to occur just before death is "yielding up the ghost (or spirit)". The language here is interesting because the word "yielding" is most commonly translated as "betrayed" (turned over). The "spirit" that's being "betrayed" is defined as "his spirit". This is not a reference to the Holy Spirit because it would have been phrased differently if it was.

So this "spirit" appears to be the human component that "houses" conscious awareness of God and if "it is finished" was a reference to a spiritual awareness of being forsaken; it would make sense that "betray" (his) "spirit" would be the last conscious act Jesus would surrender to before the Divine nature is rent from the human body, thus causing his death. The veil in the temple was rent top to bottom simultaneously with Jesus dying; so thus I think is the symbolic indicator of his Divinity "torn" from his body.

Now returning for a minute to the phrase concerning the tribulation being shortened or no flesh would be saved. The tribulation ended with the encounter of the angel of death. That was the shortening there of.

Right after this angel departs, comes Judas and the posse to arrest Jesus. Peter pulls out his sword (this is actually the second time this happens) and whacks off the ear of the high priest's servant. The first time this happens (this was the first encounter in the winter garden) Jesus heals this servant. The second time this happens (in Gethsemane) he doesn't. Now is this the same servant who had his ear cut off twice? I don't know. If it is though, this would give some credence as to why Jesus didn't heal him again. The name of the servant given in John is Malchus. This is the Greek version of the Hebrew name Melek; which means "king".

After this, Jesus turns to Peter and says: "Do you think that I can not pray to my Father (right now) and he will send me more than 12 legions of angels? But how than should the Scripture be fulfilled? So this is how it must be." This clues us in on the fact that Jesus is aware that he doesn't have to do this. He could call it quits and go back to heaven and that would be the end of it; thus no flesh would be saved. This hearkens back to Jesus praying if this cup could pass from him; "Not my will but Yours be done".

Keep in mind that Jesus's soul has already been severed from his personhood and is in Hades. The fact that this happened is a mercy to the rest of us, because what Jesus is indicating here; is that if this hadn't happened, he would have quit because the process of being forsaken was more than his soul could deal with. Now at this point, it does not seem to me that Jesus is consciously aware of what his soul is "feeling"; although he is aware of what happened to it.

So in turn this could be why the English translators said this angel "strengthened" him; because in a round about way that's exactly what happened. He was strengthened through the death of his soul.

So what happened when Jesus died?

His soul was delivered from hell, joined his spirit (that he'd "betrayed") and in his human nature he stood before the Father as proof that he'd made it out of this ordeal without sinning. Revelation 5 - He's the lamb slain who appears in heaven to open the seals.

Jeremiah 30 talks about the "time of Jacob's trouble". This is also equated to in eschatological speak as "the tribulation". What is important to note about what Jeremiah says concerning Jacob's trouble is that "Jacob" is delivered from them on account of his own obedience.

Matthew 24:29-31 talks about what happens "immediately after the tribulation". Sun darkened, moon does not give light - this happened from noon to 3 PM on the day of the crucifixion. The stars fall from heaven and the powers of heaven are shaken. This is probably a reference to not just the severance of the two natures; but in that process Jesus the man is forsaken by the rest of the Godhead; and because of what he/He was created as, this is why the powers of heaven are shaken.

The next verse: "They shall see the sign of the son of man in heaven…" This is something that entities in heaven are looking down upon. Thus probably why the sun was darkened and the moon did not give it's light. The creatures on earth can not see into heaven, but the entities in heaven can see what's going on down on earth; and what they are looking at is the crucifixion. They are watching Jesus die is what's going on.

How do we know this is what it means by "sign of the son of man in heaven"? Jesus makes a reference speaking to the Pharisees about "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sigh, but the only sign given it will be the sign of the prophet Jonah; whereas Jonah was in the wale's belly 3 days and 3 nights, so shall the son of man be in the heart of the earth." Now we know when this happened. The 3 days and 3 nights started sundown teusday and ended when Jesus died Friday afternoon. So the only public display that occurred to this "wicked and adulterous generation" was the crucifixion.

The next part of this verse: "..then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This verse is not talking about the return of Christ to earth; it's talking about the ascension into heaven upon his death. The tribes of the earth that mourn are all the unregenerate souls who are in Sheol and see this happen. Once Jesus leaves Sheol all the redeemed on the old testament side of the cross go with him. They got their 'ticket to ride' - there they go! Revelation picks this up as: "a multitude that no man could number who came out of great tribulation." This is the "first resurrection over which the second death has no power". This first resurrection also includes those who come after, who live and die in the interim between Pentecost and judgement day.

Interestingly to note too is that these are "of every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation". They aren't just Israelites from the old testament side of the cross. These are people from around the globe; which explaining how people can be redeemed based on the testimony of creation alone, without ever having heard Scripture, is the subject of a whole other Bible study.

So that's what all that means and it's all taking place from the perspective of what is witnessed in the spiritual realm in both directions; earthly souls looking up and heaven looking down.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Where in the Scripture does it tell us to look in words and letters of words for "spiritual meaning"?

This is what they call the oral tradition that is said to go back to Moses, although some people believe the tradition goes back as far as Abraham or even Adam. You will not have any regard for this because you are anti Semitic and you do not trust the "Jews". Even Jesus warns us about the traditions of man and the yeast of the Pharisees. Science can help us a little to verify teaching. Although people can get their false religion to line up with a false science to try to verify something that is not true. Esp we see this in quantum physics. Even doctors do this. Because there are things they can do to heal people they expect you to trust them in everything and a lot of people die because of this. This is why we quote proverbs 3 so often: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight." We do not put our trust in man and we do not put our trust in ourself, we put our trust in the Lord.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Did you know the term "thousand years" in Revelation is in the plural?

That is the way the Hebrew language works. One represents 1000. Every letter has a numerical value. This is why the scribes were so accurate and they did not make mistakes. They counted the numerical value of the letters. They have software that they can use to find some of the different codes in the Bible. With the computer we have ways to study scriptures that has never been available to anyone before. Our generation should have a better understanding then any generation has ever had. We are told that there are parts of our Bible that were written just for our sake today. Even as there are things we say or do that will benefit or help future generations. They say the library in Heaven has three sections: past, present & future.

I am a dispensationalist and for me a day is equal to 1,000 years. I believe the nano diamond comet can be used as a marker for the beginning of the current age or era that we are in. Also we can use the Apophis comet for whatever value we can find in that because NASA is usually pretty accurate with their math.

Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-year-old Nanodiamond-rich Soil

 

[joshua 1 9]

Daniel 9 says that "70 weeks are determined upon the people and upon the holy city

70 is a very powerful number for the Kabbalah people as indicated here by Daniel. Jesus had 70 disciples before he narrowed them down to 12 and then one of them was a traitor as we read about in the Psalms. 70 is represented by the Hebrew Letter AYIN. This is 10 times 7. As there are 7 days in a week. The AYIN is a Y shape and this represents the eyes. There are two optic nerves that become one in the brain. This is God's Divine Providence, as we are told the Eyes of God are on the Land of Israel. We see there were 70 descendants of Noah, there were 70 that when down to Egypt and so on as this is a common number in the Bible. The numbers are infinite in value so we could go on forever to study the meaning of any of the 22 Hebrew Letters.

The "consummation" is Pentecost.

Yes Pentecost follows Passover. This is when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Church. So it could be this is the beginning of the Church age or the Age of Grace, the Time of the Gentiles and so on. I did a study on the THIRD DAY in the Bible and this is very interesting. For example Gen 22 "On the third day of their journey, Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." This represents Calvary where God sacrificed Jesus. Jesus said in Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and I complete cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I am perfected." Perfect means whole, complete and mature. As we are to be perfected in His love as His "finished" work of Calvary does a work in us.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Interestingly to note too is that these are "of every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation".

These are the people that listed to the testimony of the 144,000. Zech says: "8 And in all the land,” declares the LORD, “two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold.They will call on My name, and I will answer them.I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say,‘The LORD is our God.’”

One third is a lot of people. Jesus says few will be saved and many will perish but few could be a third and many could be 2 thirds. I believe that even though a third will be saved that only 10% actually represent God. Many are called and few are chosen. These are the people that follow the Torah and take their Priesthood before God serious. 1Peter2:9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out."

This is something that entities in heaven are looking down upon.

When I got saved I had the feeling that there was no roof on the building. Later on I learned that the meaning of this is that Heaven was watching what was going on so they could give a testimony that I was saved at that service. People talk about portals so Heaven can see what is going on in the Earth.

 

[The Righterzpen]

This is what they call the oral tradition that is said to go back to Moses, although some people believe the tradition goes back as far as Abraham or even Adam. You will not have any regard for this because you are anti Semitic and you do not trust the "Jews". Even Jesus warns us about the traditions of man and the yeast of the Pharisees. Science can help us a little to verify teaching. Although people can get their false religion to line up with a false science to try to verify something that is not true. Esp we see this in quantum physics. Even doctors do this. Because there are things they can do to heal people they expect you to trust them in everything and a lot of people die because of this. This is why we quote proverbs 3 so often: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight." We do not put our trust in man and we do not put our trust in ourself, we put our trust in the Lord.

Although, "Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding..." applies to the religious traditions of men (oral or otherwise) more than it applies to doctors or scientists. That is what Jesus was talking about when He told them "you make the command of God of none effect by your tradition." He wasn't talking to doctors or scientists there. He was talking to religious leaders, the same ones who came up with the gematria "oral tradition" that you follow. The Scripture speaks nothing of these oral traditions. This is why God gave us the Bible. It explains to us in its own words how to study it.

Medicine and science are "self limiting". If it doesn't work, the evidence that it doesn't work is readily apparent. (The experiment fails, the patient dies or doesn't improve, or the invention doesn't work.

 

[The Righterzpen]

That is the way the Hebrew language works. One represents 1000. Every letter has a numerical value. This is why the scribes were so accurate and they did not make mistakes. They counted the numerical value of the letters. They have software that they can use to find some of the different codes in the Bible. With the computer we have ways to study scriptures that has never been available to anyone before. Our generation should have a better understanding then any generation has ever had. We are told that there are parts of our Bible that were written just for our sake today. Even as there are things we say or do that will benefit or help future generations. They say the library in Heaven has three sections: past, present & future.

I am a dispensationalist and for me a day is equal to 1,000 years. I believe the nano diamond comet can be used as a marker for the beginning of the current age or era that we are in. Also we can use the Apophis comet for whatever value we can find in that because NASA is usually pretty accurate with their math.

Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-year-old Nanodiamond-rich Soil

I did not get the 1000 years being a plural of thousand by gematria or from some estimated time table of a comet. Look in an interlinear Bible. 1000 is plural. Now if it's a double plural of 1000 (being 2000) or a multiple plural of 1000 (being thousands of) That I'm not sure of. I tend to lean toward double plural of 1000 based on other things in the Scripture. Now if it is a "double plural" and we are getting to the end of a 2000 years "millennial reign" that would be 2033 AD (2000 years after the resurrection.) Am I right? We'll see what happens in 14 years.

 

[hedrick]

It is surely a hypothetical question, since I don't think there was any real chance of Adam and Eve not falling, but surely if they hadn't, their children would still be in Eden. It would have taken a specific act of God to expel them from Eden, and I don't see how that could happen other than by sin. It also seems obvious that the children would be like the parents, and would still have the possibility of falling.

For what it's worth, Calvin suggested that Adam and Eve would eventually have peacefully transitioned to heaven. The experience would be sufficiently different from ours that it wouldn't be death. We wouldn't want to leave Adam and Eve on earth permanently, not even in Eden.

 

[The Righterzpen]

70 is a very powerful number for the Kabbalah people as indicated here by Daniel. Jesus had 70 disciples before he narrowed them down to 12 and then one of them was a traitor as we read about in the Psalms. 70 is represented by the Hebrew Letter AYIN. This is 10 times 7. As there are 7 days in a week. The AYIN is a Y shape and this represents the eyes. There are two optic nerves that become one in the brain. This is God's Divine Providence, as we are told the Eyes of God are on the Land of Israel. We see there were 70 descendants of Noah, there were 70 that when down to Egypt and so on as this is a common number in the Bible. The numbers are infinite in value so we could go on forever to study the meaning of any of the 22 Hebrew Letters.

Yes Pentecost follows Passover. This is when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Church. So it could be this is the beginning of the Church age or the Age of Grace, the Time of the Gentiles and so on. I did a study on the THIRD DAY in the Bible and this is very interesting. For example Gen 22 "On the third day of their journey, Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." This represents Calvary where God sacrificed Jesus. Jesus said in Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and I complete cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I am perfected." Perfect means whole, complete and mature. As we are to be perfected in His love as His "finished" work of Calvary does a work in us.

Except again - the 70 weeks is a literal time, not some metaphoric meaning having to do with what elders think it means. No where in the Scripture does it talk about 70 disciples before "narrowing it down" to 12. The 70 weeks is literally 70 weeks. It doesn't mean anything more than that or less than that. Just like the "one week" and "in the middle of the week is the Messiah cut off". Again, it's a literal week. It is the fulfillment of prophecy. We don't need to look for any further meaning than that.

I had to go look up Luke 13:32. Again, that is a specific statement said to a particular person at a particular time for a certain reason.

The context is a pharisee comes to Jesus (who's preaching in the Temple some time Monday on the week of the crucifixion). And tells Him, Herod wants to kill you, you need to get out of here. Jesus tells this pharisee. "Tell that fox (Herod) that I cast out devils today and heal people today and tomorrow I will do the same thing and the 3rd day I will have come to the completion. (He has come to the end of his preaching.) The word "perfect" in that context is not talking about Jesus being "whole", "complete" or "mature". He's talking about His time of preaching, healing and casting out demons being complete.

This word is used in the context of "consummating" and act / action. Going through a process that brings about a particular result. The example Strongs uses is extending a ship captain's telescope, that as it get to its full length, it is at its strongest in magnification power. The application fits in the natural world too, to the process of conceiving a child; thus the use of the synonym "consummation". (Jesus is getting a bit graphic there. LOL)

Yet again, these verses have very specific meanings to the fulfillment of prophecy as it relates specifically to Jesus. Going by what some rabbi thinks it means using some un Scriptural system to try and figure out what the individual letters mean, will only lead you astray.

 

[The Righterzpen]

These are the people that listed to the testimony of the 144,000. Zech says: "8 And in all the land,” declares the LORD, “two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold.They will call on My name, and I will answer them.I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say,‘The LORD is our God.’”

One third is a lot of people. Jesus says few will be saved and many will perish but few could be a third and many could be 2 thirds. I believe that even though a third will be saved that only 10% actually represent God. Many are called and few are chosen. These are the people that follow the Torah and take their Priesthood before God serious. 1Peter2:9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out."

When I got saved I had the feeling that there was no roof on the building. Later on I learned that the meaning of this is that Heaven was watching what was going on so they could give a testimony that I was saved at that service. People talk about portals so Heaven can see what is going on in the Earth.

Revelation 7:9 - These 144,000. are "And with" - "every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation".

Revelation 14:1 - The lamb has 144,000 with their Father's name on their foreheads.

Revelation 14:3 - 144,000. are "redeemed from the earth".

Revelation 21:17 - The wall of the eternal city is 144 cubits high.

This is the only place 144 (or 144,000) is used. It represents all who would be saved; not just those who are genetic descendants of Jacob.