Adam's Flesh Could Not Be Saved

[Davy]

While I agree that many truths are given us by allegory, parables and riddles; one must not contradict the Scripture black and white statements in gleaning these truths..Test the spirits and find proper discernment and wisdom by carefully testing everything against the Word...those straight-forward teachings found there cannot be negated.
Adam walked with God in spirit and flesh until he sinned and was cast out of the garden. It was his transgression which brought the curse of sin to all mankind. This is why Romans states that Adam was a pattern of one to come...though all men sinned by way of Adam, all men are saved by Christ. Christ reversed the curse.

You started off correctly, but then you slowly departed away from The Word of God and instead into man's tradition. Adam did not commit the very first sin.

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

It was Satan that committed the very first sin, ever. And that was in the old world before this present world, and before God formed Adam flesh in His Garden. By the time of Adam and Eve, Satan was already in his role as Adversary tempting Eve. That's because he sinned prior to that in COVETING GOD'S THRONE.


Isa 14:12-14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
KJV


Those words in purple is what Satan claimed he will do. When did he say that? In the world before this one, which is when God originally made him perfect in his ways in the beginning, and then Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne wanting to be GOD. WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS!!

Much of God's Word will not be understood unless Satan's rebellion in the beginning is understood, and I'm talking about a lot written in the Old Testament prophets too.

Thus the ultimate reason why sin and death came into existence in the first place is because of what Satan did against God in the world before this present one, not by Adam and Eve's sin.

 

[Religiot]

No I haven't. Satan is who sinned from the beginning, like Apostle John said. And that is when death started because of it. God simply made Adam in corrupted flesh with the ability to sin and die because of what Satan did in that old world.

It's Satan's fault, so you need to quit taking up for Satan! That's what you're doing when you refuse to put the blame on Satan for sin and death. And trying to say I'm blaming God for it is utter ignorance.

Again, you repeat, with emphasis, that God created Adam in corrupted flesh...

Do you not see, that to allege that God created Adam corrupted, is to impute error to God, namely, His creation of corrupted flesh?

My response clearly does blame Satan--did you not read what I wrote?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

You started off correctly, but then you slowly departed away from The Word of God and instead into man's tradition. Adam did not commit the very first sin.

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

It was Satan that committed the very first sin, ever. And that was in the old world before this present world, and before God formed Adam flesh in His Garden. By the time of Adam and Eve, Satan was already in his role as Adversary tempting Eve. That's because he sinned prior to that in COVETING GOD'S THRONE.


Isa 14:12-14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
KJV


Those words in purple is what Satan claimed he will do. When did he say that? In the world before this one, which is when God originally made him perfect in his ways in the beginning, and then Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne wanting to be GOD. WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS!!

Much of God's Word will not be understood unless Satan's rebellion in the beginning is understood, and I'm talking about a lot written in the Old Testament prophets too.

Thus the ultimate reason why sin and death came into existence in the first place is because of what Satan did against God in the world before this present one, not by Adam and Eve's sin.

You fail to conclude that Satan is of the spiritual world and not one of mankind. Jesus came to save mankind according to His promise in Genesis 3:15 and this is not a salvation means for Satan whom Jesus would and did immortally wound when He finished His work on the cross. God deals with us mercifully when we believe in Him and turn our life to Him. I Corinthians 15 and Job 19:26 clearly states that flesh will be raised bodily and changed to an immortal body to face the Judgement and this should put an end to your argument...sadly in your mind it does not. One can be spiritually wise to see riddles and allegory in Scripture; one is wiser still when he backs down to the truth Word of God and admits his error...Proverbs speaks of such in pointing out differences between the wise and the foolish.
Be wise then and reread...you seem to be veering off on a shipwreck course.

 

[Davy]

Again, you repeat, with emphasis, that God created Adam in corrupted flesh...

Nah, that's just what YOU say. And you cannot back it up in God's Word whereas I did.

See my post #128.

 

[Religiot]

Nah, that's just what YOU say. And you cannot back it up in God's Word whereas I did.

See my post #128.

?... ...I quoted what you said: how are you attributing your words to me? and why?

--If you don't understand me, then just ask, and I'll be glad to explain further.

 

[Davy]

You fail to conclude that Satan is of the spiritual world and not one of mankind.

What silliness is that?

I already pointed to Ezekiel 28 which is a parable about Satan as the "anointed cherub that covereth".

Ezek 28:12-16
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.'
KJV


A 'cherub', as I have said before, is specifically a Heavenly type being!

So don't go trying to put words into my mouth!

 

[Philip_B]

God simply made Adam in corrupted flesh with the ability to sin and die because of what Satan did in that old world.

God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good.

 

[Davy]

?... ...I quoted what you said: how are you attributing your words to me? and why?

--If you don't understand me, then just ask, and I'll be glad to explain further.

You have not quoted anything I've said. You have only tried to put your OWN words into my mouth.

 

[Davy]

God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good.

Yep, but not PERFECT.

Trying reading what Paul said in Romans 8:18-25, as if you've even checked that out yet! You might follow that up with Jeremiah 4:23-28.

The junk you've been taught is NOT Biblical. The false belief that flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God is a doctrine of the devil himself. It's the devil's children in this world that ever wish for immortality of their flesh. It's not going to happen! The flesh of this world represents a state of corruption! That is why Apostle Paul said what he did in 1 Corinthians 15:49...

1 Cor 15:49-52
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

 

[Religiot]

You have not quoted anything I've said. You have only tried to put your OWN words into my mouth.

Post #200, your own words, copy and pasted:
"No I haven't. Satan is who sinned from the beginning, like Apostle John said. And that is when death started because of it. God simply made Adam in corrupted flesh with the ability to sin and die because of what Satan did in that old world."

Man, if you can't remember your own words, then I don't think there's anything I can say that will matter.

I can't help you.

I tried.

Goodbye.

 

[Philip_B]

The junk you've been taught is NOT Biblical.

Clearly you know more than I know, or you simply enjoy being rude. Given that the entirety of my post was a direct quote from scripture I am not sure why you have said that in this context.

It is important that use not scripture as a drunk uses a lamp post - more for support than for illumination.

 

[prodromos]

The junk you've been taught is NOT Biblical. The false belief that flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God is a doctrine of the devil himself.

It's almost like St Peter had you specifically in mind when he wrote about St Paul's epistles in 2 Peter 3:16.

 

[Davy]

It's almost like St Peter had you specifically in mind when he wrote about St Paul's epistles in 2 Peter 3:16.

I think it's the other way around, since Peter was pointing to Scripture like Romans 8:18-25 in Paul's Epistles, which is the subject of 2 Peter 3, and obviously something God has not given for you to know about.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yep, but not PERFECT.

Trying reading what Paul said in Romans 8:18-25, as if you've even checked that out yet! You might follow that up with Jeremiah 4:23-28.

The junk you've been taught is NOT Biblical. The false belief that flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God is a doctrine of the devil himself. It's the devil's children in this world that ever wish for immortality of their flesh. It's not going to happen! The flesh of this world represents a state of corruption! That is why Apostle Paul said what he did in 1 Corinthians 15:49...

1 Cor 15:49-52
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

Not perfect? What do you think God means when He says something is good or very good? And just FYI, in the original Hebrew it does not say good---the words are "very functional",

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]

Are you seriously of the opinion that anything God creates is less then perfect??!! He doesn't create imperfection. To be very functional is to be perfect. God created Lucifer and Adam and Eve to be perfectly functional for their intended use. Lucifer was His most beautiful creation of an angel, a messenger, and he and Adam and Eve were created with a perfectly functional free will and they used it. Adam and Eve were created to be in the image of God---God is not imperfect, not did He create them in any way imperfect, that is sacrilege, it is blasphemy to say God creates imperfection!! He can not do so, for He is perfect and everything He doe is perfect. He gave Lucifer, Adam and Eve a perfectly functioning FREE WILL, and Lucifer, and all the fallen angels, plus Adam and Eve used it and rebelled against God. With that rebellion came the loss of perfection. We, however, have been given the privilege of becoming adopted back into the family of God and will have perfectly resurrected bodies when we are raised from the dead along with those that are translated. They will be the same perfect bodies that Adam and Eve had and will have again when they are resurrected and the same glorified human body that Christ assumed at His resurrection.

 

[Paul4JC]

[1Co 15:50 NIV] 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

[Mat 22:30 NIV] 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

 

[Davy]

Not perfect? What do you think God means when He says something is good or very good? And just FYI, in the original Hebrew it does not say good---the words are "very functional",
....

The reason I quoted Romans 8:18-25, and from Romans 7 about the law of sin in our fleshy members per Apostle Paul, and that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, also per Paul, was to show that the flesh is of this PRESENT world, and represents a state of corruption, even BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned in God's Garden.

Gen 3:6
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
KJV

Eve's flesh lusted after the forbidden fruit. It's as simple as that.


Now I realize that some ignorant preachers have been trying to suggest that the state of Adam and Eve before they sinned was in a state of perfection, because those same men like to portray Christ's future Salvation of the world to come involving a new flesh body, when Apostle Paul made it plain that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doeth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15). Paul taught the resurrection is to a "spiritual body". And in 1 Peter 3:18-19, and in 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, Christ's heavenly body as "the last Adam" shows it was made "a quickening spirit". And Lord Jesus even said in Matthew 22:30 that those of the resurrection "are as the angels of God in heaven", so how much more Scripture evidence does one need, that the future world to come is not with a flesh body like today??

Yet those same men will keep pushing that old false tradition about God's future Kingdom being filled with flesh people.

 

[mmksparbud]

The reason I quoted Romans 8:18-25, and from Romans 7 about the law of sin in our fleshy members per Apostle Paul, and that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, also per Paul, was to show that the flesh is of this PRESENT world, and represents a state of corruption, even BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned in God's Garden.

Gen 3:6
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
KJV

Eve's flesh lusted after the forbidden fruit. It's as simple as that.


Now I realize that some ignorant preachers have been trying to suggest that the state of Adam and Eve before they sinned was in a state of perfection, because those same men like to portray Christ's future Salvation of the world to come involving a new flesh body, when Apostle Paul made it plain that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doeth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15). Paul taught the resurrection is to a "spiritual body". And in 1 Peter 3:18-19, and in 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, Christ's heavenly body as "the last Adam" shows it was made "a quickening spirit". And Lord Jesus even said in Matthew 22:30 that those of the resurrection "are as the angels of God in heaven", so how much more Scripture evidence does one need, that the future world to come is not with a flesh body like today??

Yet those same men will keep pushing that old false tradition about God's future Kingdom being filled with flesh people.

Adam and Eve were not created with corrupted, sinful flesh. Their condition changed from perfection to imperfection when they sinned. GOD DOES NOT CREATE IMPERFECTION!!! And this earth will be filled with fleshly people just as Adam and Eve and Jesus. Jesus retains His humanity throughout eternity. He now a glorified human body---just as ours will be!! We will be changed to our incorruptable bodies at the l.ast trump by Jesus. We will spend 1000 years in heaven with Him, then the earth is remade after the wicked are punished. We will populate this remade earth. We are not turned into angels! We will be as the angels in heaven as fsr as marriage goes. They do not marry, they are non-sexual beings. We will retain our humanity just as Jesus does and He and God the Father will be on this earth.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[prodromos]

God created everything good, not perfect. He created man with the potential to become perfect, as realised in Christ Jesus

 

[Davy]

Adam and Eve were not created with corrupted, sinful flesh.

Sorry, but yes, Adam and Eve were created with the corruption of flesh that was possible for it to sin and die. If it represented a state of perfection comparable to Christ's future Salvation, then it would not have been possible for Adam and Eve to have sinned in the first place. That's easy to understand, so why are you fighting against it? Just so you can keep men's false tradition that thinks our flesh body is what is resurrected? No, there are no folks laying literally asleep dead in the casket in the ground.

 

[prodromos]

Sorry, but yes, Adam and Eve were created with the corruption of flesh that was possible for it to sin and die.

No, they were created with the potential to become perfect. If they had remained obedient they would eventually have been mature enough to eat of the fruit which they were initially forbidden. Free will is not corruption. Man cannot truly love God without free will.