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Sam... man didn't fall until Adam sinned. Go read it... When Eve ate, neither knew they were naked. But when HE ATE they did. If you don't see that, I am sorry brother. But it was when Adam ate they they fell.You said. "man didn't fall until Adam sinned"
Are they chosen to pass down the curse? Why would our male ancestor being cursed only mean his male descendants could pass it, which is the specific thing im trying to say?
Sam... man didn't fall until Adam sinned. Go read it... When Eve ate, neither knew they were naked. But when HE ATE they did. If you don't see that, I am sorry brother. But it was when Adam ate they they fell.
The Adam in the verse you are referring to stands for "mankind" which includes both male and female. There are very few time in the bible where Adam is the name of a person or place....and this only happens in genesis when the generation of Adam are mentioned......and when it states that Adam knew his Wife. Interestingly, it seems that whether Adam is in the sentence with Eve, it is not used as a name.You said. "man didn't fall until Adam sinned"
Are they chosen to pass down the curse? Why would our male ancestor being cursed only mean his male descendants could pass it, which is the specific thing im trying to say?
I understand all this and agreeThey were both guilty but Eve did not have dominion over creation, Adam did. Look, our culture, especially in the last 40 years, has become increasingly anti-male. Now, I am not suggesting that Adam ruled Eve or any nonsense like that, she was taken out of his "side" not his butt (which could be viewed as her being less) nor his head (which could be viewed as her being more) but his SIDE.. which makes them equals. A man and woman should complete each other. HOWEVER, God has set up a structure that when followed, works AND gives us a picture of our relationship to messiah.
So, we have a man and woman but when it comes to the head of the house, God placed man above woman for that "job." It is an OFFICE or job, not an excuse to be your typical non-God fearing American male when it comes to how he might view a woman.
God is the head of Christ... Christ is the head of man... man is the head of woman. That isn't me saying that, that is word for word from the Holy Spirit through Paul. Adam was the head of his house... the commandment not to eat did NOT go from God to Eve, it went from God to Adam and from Adam to Eve. So when Eve ate she sinned (against God) but went directly against Adam's word and indirectly (since Adam's word came from God) against God. But Adam, when he ate, went directly against God's word. That is why Eve didn't know she was naked when she ate and had Adam not eaten... we don't know what would have happened but we do know that Adam would not have lost that special sight... and his connection to God, had he not eaten. But when he did... when he did NOT when she did... they BOTH lost that special sight and knew they were naked. Why when he did? Because he was the head of the house...and he is who had the dominion over creation.
God does not change.... we do. We can't read Scripture from a 21st century Western mindset in English only and think we are going to understand all the cultural nuances and abstract linguistic uses of writings that come to us... inspired by God... but also through an ancient near east paradigm. The writers were Hebrew, starting over 1900 years ago and progressing older... and "studying to show ourselves approved" has to mean looking outside our current modern paradigm and seeing through the eyes of the Hebrews who penned the books we hold dear.
They were both guilty but Eve did not have dominion over creation, Adam did. Look, our culture, especially in the last 40 years, has become increasingly anti-male. Now, I am not suggesting that Adam ruled Eve or any nonsense like that, she was taken out of his "side" not his butt (which could be viewed as her being less) nor his head (which could be viewed as her being more) but his SIDE.. which makes them equals. A man and woman should complete each other. HOWEVER, God has set up a structure that when followed, works AND gives us a picture of our relationship to messiah.
So, we have a man and woman but when it comes to the head of the house, God placed man above woman for that "job." It is an OFFICE or job, not an excuse to be your typical non-God fearing American male when it comes to how he might view a woman.
God is the head of Christ... Christ is the head of man... man is the head of woman. That isn't me saying that, that is word for word from the Holy Spirit through Paul. Adam was the head of his house... the commandment not to eat did NOT go from God to Eve, it went from God to Adam and from Adam to Eve. So when Eve ate she sinned (against God) but went directly against Adam's word and indirectly (since Adam's word came from God) against God. But Adam, when he ate, went directly against God's word. That is why Eve didn't know she was naked when she ate and had Adam not eaten... we don't know what would have happened but we do know that Adam would not have lost that special sight... and his connection to God, had he not eaten. But when he did... when he did NOT when she did... they BOTH lost that special sight and knew they were naked. Why when he did? Because he was the head of the house...and he is who had the dominion over creation.
God does not change.... we do. We can't read Scripture from a 21st century Western mindset in English only and think we are going to understand all the cultural nuances and abstract linguistic uses of writings that come to us... inspired by God... but also through an ancient near east paradigm. The writers were Hebrew, starting over 1900 years ago and progressing older... and "studying to show ourselves approved" has to mean looking outside our current modern paradigm and seeing through the eyes of the Hebrews who penned the books we hold dear.
Right... they are the first humans and everything flowed from them to us.I know. But what I mean is-adam and eve aren't types and shadows of the living men and women today.
Well, of course. We don't even know if they lived in a "house" but I get your point. Like I said, she came from his side, they are equals, each have work that completes the life of the other. What one is strong is the other is usually weak in, and vice-versa. My point beyond that is simply that Adam is the God ordained spiritual head of his house.I understand all this and agree
However..Adam and every male head over his family wouldn't have a "house" if not for Eve
Not really relevant to what I was saying. Adam was given dominion over creation, Adam's sin (not Eve's) introduced death into not just humanity but ALL of creation. I am well aware of what the future prophecies state, but this discussion I was having with Sam wasn't about the future.
On all things? Yes... but we can understand much now as well.
I don't recall (in scripture) where it tells us that Eve was spoken directly to regarding "Thou shalt not eat..." but when Adam was still but one..
I don't believe there were viruses until the fall. Death (decay, disease, all lead to death) was the result of his sin... that all came AFTER his sin. So... we don't see this the same way. No problem.. be well.Adam was NOT given dominion or rule over viruses, mosquitoes or Angels. At the end of the present 6th Day/Age, Adam/mankind will be given dominion over EVERY living creature. IOW, Genesis 1:28 is Prophecy of a FUTURE event which happens in the last days AFTER Jesus returns.
We live today in the last Creative Day and we will NOT enter the 7th Day, which is Eternity, until our Earth is burned and death is destroyed.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Well, of course. We don't even know if they lived in a "house" but I get your point. Like I said, she came from his side, they are equals, each have work that completes the life of the other. What one is strong is the other is usually weak in, and vice-versa. My point beyond that is simply that Adam is the God ordained spiritual head of his house.
Blessings sis.
Ken
The Sin of Women Preachers!That is to say, the characteristics that make a woman more strongly suited for her intended role in the family and church, make her weaker with reference to what is required for duties of headship and leadership. Such characteristics probably have to do more with her emotional rather than her intellectual nature.
Eve added to the words that God had spoken to Adam as she reasoned with the serpent.Start in Genesis 3, you'll see it by verse 2 as the woman was able to repeat back to the serpent what she was able to do. Therefore, while we do not have a record of her being spoken directly to, we do see in her own words a knowledge that had to have been given to her.
I am not going here Sam... it is an argument that only divides people and at this point we have enough division. I would rather let messiah settle this one when he comes.
I am not disputing that... but what she did repeat accurately reflected something she couldn't have known unless she was told. This is a quote from Eve, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die." Correct or not, this is too deep a statement to make without having been told.Eve added to the words that God had spoken to Adam as she reasoned with the serpent.
I am not going here Sam... it is an argument that only divides people and at this point we have enough division. I would rather let messiah settle this one when he comes.
This is a rabbit trail now. You said that Eve wasn't directly told what was expected of her. I quoted her own words, which were not exactly what God said... but included information she didn't make up and get right by coincidence. She was told, she knew all trees were good for food but one... somebody told her, that is how it reads. If you read it otherwise, that's fine.Eve added to the words that God had spoken to Adam as she reasoned with the serpent.
ActuallyAdam was NOT given dominion or rule over viruses, mosquitoes or Angels. At the end of the present 6th Day/Age, Adam/mankind will be given dominion over EVERY living creature. IOW, Genesis 1:28 is Prophecy of a FUTURE event which happens in the last days AFTER Jesus returns.
We live today in the last Creative Day and we will NOT enter the 7th Day, which is Eternity, until our Earth is burned and death is destroyed.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
That's fine Sam... I just don't want to get into that discussion, OK? Blessings.its question not arugement.
Actually that contradicts what THE MASTER has told HIS servants toComing to the knowledge of (perceiving) being a son (no gender implied)through The Son takes us back to the beginning...in a garden, Adam was one - til a deep sleep came upon him, and from a wound in his side out came a woman (a picture of our soul as how it relates being IN Christ)...who prepared the feast he ate after God said "Thou shalt not eat..." The flesh is nothing, it is the spirit/soul within. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
I don't recall (in scripture) where it tells us that Eve was spoken directly to regarding "Thou shalt not eat..." but when Adam was still but one...
"Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light." We eat from out own thoughts or from the feast prepared by the father at the wedding feast, through The Door...(back)
EDIT: reclined at the table being served, no longer labouring in the field for bread...
I'm sorry Sam
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