Adam ?

And GOD has done it that way

So as to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON

These discussions do not negate THE TRUTH that Adam and Eve and all men and women suffered the same demise

There is not one man who has not suffered the effects of sin

Ken Rank said:

For some reason I kind of feel like you have a tone here? Look, just go back and read it... they didn't see they were naked when she ate. Nothing happened when she ate, things changed when he did.

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Their eyes were opened

Their eyes

Together


Were opened and they saw their nakedness


It wasn't that Adam recognized his nakedness first and then Eve

It is written

Their eyes were opened

Please show me a different version of Genesis 3:7 which implies that Eve apart from Adam recognized she had sinned first

They both immediately understood they had sinned together

And not apart from the other

And please. Don't imply what you think my tone is as some sort of tactic to either shut me up or cast the wrong light on me because I am speaking THE TRUTH

There was nothing in my tone directed personally at you

So why do you believe that this is personal

If the TRUTH is being spoken

THAT Is all that matters

Are you mad because I am responding to your posts

Or answering Sam

Superhero Sam said:

She had it but didn't pass it on, so that corresponds to eggs being sinless.

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Please. An egg apart from it being fertilized is nothing

And a woman apart from her mate can't bring forth children


If Adam had remained uneffected and Eve was sent out from the garden alone...neither could have brought forth children apart from the other

And mankind would have ended with them

Open Heart said:

What God saw was the best of all possible worlds, and what we see as the best, is probably not at all even close to the same thing. How can the finite understand the infinite? "Who can know the breadth and the depth of the wisdom and knowledge of God?"

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So why would he create us with an innate inability to fully understand ?

miknik5 said:

Is there any who do not sin and always do right?


Even though GOD already by HIS WORD, declared there isn't?

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we are sinners because we inherit it from our father, without doing anything wrong ourselves.

Superhero Sam said:

we are sinners because we inherit it from our father, without doing anything wrong ourselves.

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We are sinners because sin passed on to everyone

Even those who had not sinned after the similitude of

ADAM

miknik5 said:

We are sinners because sin passed on to everyone

Even those who had not sinned after the similitude of

ADAM

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What is the explanation for why Eve need sin in her for women to pass it on?

Radrook said:

So why would he create us with an innate inability to fully understand ?

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Why would God create inferior beings? I don't know. You'll have to ask him when you get to heaven. But obviously he doesn't consider inferior to mean without worth.

miknik5 said:

Is there any who do not sin and always do right?


Even though GOD already by HIS WORD, declared there isn't?

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for some reason it seems wierd women don't have sin genes but men do.

Superhero Sam said:

for some reason it seems wierd women don't have sin genes but men do.

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No

And all are flesh and all flesh (male and female alike) need the right covering

miknik5 said:

Their eyes were opened

Their eyes

Together


Were opened and they saw their nakedness


It wasn't that Adam recognized his nakedness first and then Eve

It is written

Their eyes were opened

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Yes, their eyes were but NOT when she ate... only after he ate. That is what is written.

Superhero Sam said:

She had it but didn't pass it on, so that corresponds to eggs being sinless.

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If that is how you need to see this, fine. But find the word "eggs" used in that context in the bible. You can't... it isn't there. Why not just say it as Scripture does... if we know the Holy Spirit caused Mary to conceive, and that messiah was born without sin... then Mary ( a woman) doesn't pass on the curse of death, that comes from the father. They doesn't mean the woman has less sin, it just means we get that from dad.

Aman777 said:

All Christians WILL BE given dominion or rule over every creature including Angels when Jesus returns. IOW, The last sinner who has been saved WILL BE given rule in the FUTURE as I posted. We live Today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in His Image or in Christ Spiritually. The PROPHECY of Gen 1:28-31 is future to 2017.

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Not really relevant to what I was saying. Adam was given dominion over creation, Adam's sin (not Eve's) introduced death into not just humanity but ALL of creation. I am well aware of what the future prophecies state, but this discussion I was having with Sam wasn't about the future.

Aman777 said:

You're not wrong, since everyone who believes the Bible by Faith, is like you. ONLY the Christians of the last days before Jesus returns can understand the scientific details which support the Truth of Genesis. Dan 12:4 God Bless you

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On all things? Yes... but we can understand much now as well.

Ken Rank said:

Yes, their eyes were but NOT when she ate... only after he ate. That is what is written.

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Ken,

I don't see what you are getting at.
She ate, she gave some to her husband, he ate...and that was when GOD opened their eyes...together...

And both were found to be guilty...together.


You initially implied that her guilt was first and then her husband...
But together, their eyes were opened and together they saw their nakedness.

That they were, apart from GOD, flesh...

Ken Rank said:

If that is how you need to see this, fine. But find the word "eggs" used in that context in the bible. You can't... it isn't there. Why not just say it as Scripture does... if we know the Holy Spirit caused Mary to conceive, and that messiah was born without sin... then Mary ( a woman) doesn't pass on the curse of death, that comes from the father. They doesn't mean the woman has less sin, it just means we get that from dad.

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or we can see it that through the ONE who is HOLY, HE reverses the curse on whoever (male or female) HE comes in contact with, who believes in HIM...and makes them clean...

miknik5 said:

Ken,

I don't see what you are getting at.
She ate, she gave some to her husband, he ate...and that was when GOD opened their eyes...together...

And both were found to be guilty...together.


You initially implied that her guilt was first and then her husband...
But together, their eyes were opened and together they saw their nakedness.

That they were, apart from GOD, flesh...

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They were both guilty but Eve did not have dominion over creation, Adam did. Look, our culture, especially in the last 40 years, has become increasingly anti-male. Now, I am not suggesting that Adam ruled Eve or any nonsense like that, she was taken out of his "side" not his butt (which could be viewed as her being less) nor his head (which could be viewed as her being more) but his SIDE.. which makes them equals. A man and woman should complete each other. HOWEVER, God has set up a structure that when followed, works AND gives us a picture of our relationship to messiah.

So, we have a man and woman but when it comes to the head of the house, God placed man above woman for that "job." It is an OFFICE or job, not an excuse to be your typical non-God fearing American male when it comes to how he might view a woman.

God is the head of Christ... Christ is the head of man... man is the head of woman. That isn't me saying that, that is word for word from the Holy Spirit through Paul. Adam was the head of his house... the commandment not to eat did NOT go from God to Eve, it went from God to Adam and from Adam to Eve. So when Eve ate she sinned (against God) but went directly against Adam's word and indirectly (since Adam's word came from God) against God. But Adam, when he ate, went directly against God's word. That is why Eve didn't know she was naked when she ate and had Adam not eaten... we don't know what would have happened but we do know that Adam would not have lost that special sight... and his connection to God, had he not eaten. But when he did... when he did NOT when she did... they BOTH lost that special sight and knew they were naked. Why when he did? Because he was the head of the house...and he is who had the dominion over creation.

God does not change.... we do. We can't read Scripture from a 21st century Western mindset in English only and think we are going to understand all the cultural nuances and abstract linguistic uses of writings that come to us... inspired by God... but also through an ancient near east paradigm. The writers were Hebrew, starting over 1900 years ago and progressing older... and "studying to show ourselves approved" has to mean looking outside our current modern paradigm and seeing through the eyes of the Hebrews who penned the books we hold dear.

miknik5 said:

or we can see it that through the ONE who is HOLY, HE reverses the curse on whoever (male or female) HE comes in contact with, who believes in HIM...and makes them clean...

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Of course... but that wasn't what I was trying to convey to Sam. He seems stuck on this sperm and egg thing and it is even simpler than that. Bottom line as far as his and my exchange goes... if sin is passed from the mother to the children than Yeshua was born in sin. Since he wasn't born into sin, then we know that sin isn't past from mom to child. That gene or trait has to come from dad.. and in Yeshua's case, he didn't have an earthly biological father which is why we can know that sin (the curse) is passed from the dad's side.

Ken Rank said:

If that is how you need to see this, fine. But find the word "eggs" used in that context in the bible. You can't... it isn't there. Why not just say it as Scripture does... if we know the Holy Spirit caused Mary to conceive, and that messiah was born without sin... then Mary ( a woman) doesn't pass on the curse of death, that comes from the father. They doesn't mean the woman has less sin, it just means we get that from dad.

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You said. "man didn't fall until Adam sinned"

Are they chosen to pass down the curse? Why would our male ancestor being cursed only mean his male descendants could pass it, which is the specific thing im trying to say?