Adam & Eve: Man & Women

[joshua 1 9]

I directly answered your question as to why Adam and Eve fell. I said they weren't omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal, or from everlasting to everlasting.

Yes, I want to deal with words that God gives us. Words that we find in our Bible. Immortal is in the Bible in reference to God. We know people died before Adam and Eve. Although it is clear that they were the first to die from sin. Cain is the one that was worried about this when he was cast out he said: "whoever finds me will kill me.” (Genesis 4:15) If we do a study on the remains of people before Adam and Eve we find that they die in the prime of life and they were murdered. That is hunted down and killed like an animal. Because they are all in the prime of life we know they did not age. So we have no way of knowing how old they were. We know Adam lived to be 930 years of age. It was after the flood that God limited man to 120 years here on the earth. "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years." (Gensis6:3) Mortal here means flesh. This means the tent or body we live in is subject to fire. This fire can purify us and give us life or fire can destroy us so that we suffer loss. At first though the implication was teeth that devoured and destroyed. At the resurrection then we receive a glorified body.

 

[joshua 1 9]

that doesn't mean those dream is from God either!

I dreamed about my first wife before I met her. I took that as a sign from God that I was suppose to marry her. As it turned out the dream was a warning NOT to marry her. So it is important that we understand our dreams. I had a dream when I was 8 years old about the bottomless pit. Recently I came to understand that the bottomless pit is a volcano. We read that: "When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss." (Rev 9:2) This clearly a reference to a volcano that erupts and fills the sky with smoke. That was almost 60 years ago I had that dream and I am just now understanding a little bit about what I saw and experienced.

 

[joshua 1 9]

"What is LSD?"

LDS, I am talking about the teaching of Joseph Smith in reference to Adam and Eve. Most all Mormons are aware of his teaching about this but I do not think they give it a lot of thought. Smith and Calvin both believe it was God's will for Adam and Eve to Eat the forbidden fruit. This is totally inconsistent with the Bible where we are repeatedly told many many times to live a life of obedience and to follow God's commandment, precepts, ordinances and so on. Of course this gets into some complicated teaching about the s erpent and his part in all of this. We know that the serpent is a manifestion of satan.

 

[The Righterzpen]

We know people died before Adam and Eve.

We've been through this too. I've showed you already that Scripturally your idea here is not true. Death is a result of sin. The Scripture is clear about that on account of it speaks of death entering because of Adam's sin.

Mortal here means flesh.

Adam was flesh and bone, just as we are flesh and bone. The physical composite of what makes up humanity has not changed. Parameters (like life span) have changed; but we are all still descendants of Adam. There is only one person on earth who was solely a descendant of Eve and that was Jesus Christ. Adam was the first human ever created; there are no humans before Adam.

 

[The Righterzpen]

As it turned out the dream was a warning NOT to marry her.

The fact that you can't tell if you were suppose to marry or not marry this woman; is not working in favor of your idea of dreams being from God.

I had a dream when I was 8 years old about the bottomless pit. Recently I came to understand that the bottomless pit is a volcano. We read that: "When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss." (Rev 9:2) This clearly a reference to a volcano that erupts and fills the sky with smoke.

This does not hold up to the scrutiny of Scripture though. Satan is cast into the bottomless pit. So are you trying to say Satan is now chained in a literal volcano. A volcano is a thing of material properties. Satan is a spirit entity. To house a spirit in a material place makes no logical sense. It makes no logical sense because Satan does not have a material body. "We wrestle not against flesh and blood."

 

[The Righterzpen]

Smith and Calvin both believe it was God's will for Adam and Eve to Eat the forbidden fruit.

I don't know what Smith believed; but your representation of God's will in regards to Calvinistic teaching is inaccurate. God knowing something will happen and Him allowing it to happen does not make Him responsible for it.

Now to understand how "the Law" operates in holding men accountable for their sin; as juxtaposed to Christ atoning for sinners, is difficult to understand. Both "The Law" and justification by the atoning work of Christ are two sides of the same covenant. No one can truly be obedient unless they are atoned for. This does not negate though that sinners are still held accountable for the sin they commit.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

yes but satan is spiritual, that does not mean there is not a physical bottomless pit. I suppose I should have covered this in my first post.

 

[The Righterzpen]

yes but satan is spiritual, that does not mean there is not a physical bottomless pit. I suppose I should have covered this in my first post.

Agreed, "the pit" "hell" and the "Lake of fire" are real places. The pit and hell though can't be materially defined in our current course of time. It's not like we can get in a craft of some sort and "find hell". If we penetrated through the core of this planet; all we'd find is what is materially there; because we as material entities currently don't have access to the spiritual dimension of this universe.

Spirit entities are real in this world, but not perceived materially because as far as we are concerned; that door closed when the canon of Scripture was completed. We know angels have the ability to appear in material form. They've demonstrated such in the past, as well as, so has the pre-incarnate 2nd person of the Trinity (appearing in theophonic form in the OT). How they do that? Apparently they have the ability to assemble atoms around a form that they are solid in the material world.

Do obedient angels still do this; showing up in solid form for short spans of time to accomplish something God has sent them for? That's possible. We hear stories of someone shows up at event X and helps person Y; but can not be located afterwards. Was that an angel manifest in human form, or merely a human being no-one has been able to track down? Who knows? And in that sense it doesn't really matter. They accomplished a task that carried out a portion of God's plan.

I've also seen things captured on film where (to my knowledge) the film wasn't altered that look like partial (fuzzy / incomplete) manifestations of "ghosts". These are most likely demonic spirits, who though they are prevented from materializing on account of God's sovereign control over things; they certainly try.

Some of this type of thing though is natural phenomena. Like those balls of light that fly around. Those are balls of electromagnetic energy that are released from the earth's crust when there is seismic activity. They're not ghosts. Yet if you do cross paths with one (it passes through your body) they will zap you! Electromagnetic energy can cause mammals to hallucinate. A big enough "zap" from an electromagnetic energy field will knock you unconscious. And readings from those types of phenomena can be picked up on instruments. They can drain camera batteries and do all kinds of weird stuff.