Adam & Eve: Man & Women

[The Righterzpen]

That is the whole point. Jesus does it all. What He does is MACRO and what we do is micro. Yet we still receive a reward and we throw our crowns before the crown because of what He did for us. A crown is suppose to represent fire. So we receive a crown when we are cleansed & purified with fire. Those who are not pure will be destroyed by fire.

Still not Scripturally supported when God says directly to Abraham: "I am your shield and your EXCEEDING GREAT REWARD!"

God is the reward. Redemption is the reward. This is why Revelation 4:11 says ".... You have created all things and for Your pleasure they are and were created."

Your statement pretty much falsifys Calvinism and LSD who both claim it was God's will for Adam to disobey the Commandment of God not to eat from that tree.

God being omniscient, knowing any created thing that was not God incarnate was subject to corruption does not make God responsible for its corruption. So to say Adam's fall was "God's will" is a misrepresentation of God's sovereignty. Again, you "pull an Adam" and attempt to blame God for the fall.

The fall happened because all that God had created was not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, immortal or having no beginning or end. The creation is not God and never will be. So yes, it is expected that it would be subject to corruption.

What is LSD (besides a drug people take); do you mean LDS (Mormons)?

No where does the Bible suggest we should disobey God. The whole Bible is all about obedience to God.

So then why would Adam's disobedience be some noble act of "loving Eve". That assertion does not hold up to the rest of Scripture.

Then why am I talking to you, because your more dead then the people in Heaven.

LOL - I don't know; why are you talking to me?

They have left their body of death behind and they are pure spirit.

Demons and Satan are also pure spirit - do we trust them?

I had a dream about a daughter in Heaven. In the dream were two angels that were taking care of her. Are you going to say my dreams are a lie because you do not believe the scripture that says: "And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions."

First off; you have to define what this passage means before you decide if your dream lines up to its meaning.

What does it mean to prophesy? All prophecy in the Old Testament was pointing to what? Answer: the Messiah.

What does it mean to prophesy in the New Testament? It means to declare the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

So knowing now what defines prophecy; what are the visions young men see and the dreams old men dream? (Hint - go back to the Old Testament; what did "dreams and visions" as related to God's message to humanity always consist of. Again, they were always related to proclaiming the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

When Peter had the vision with the sheet filled with animals. What was that vision about? It had to do with the gentile soldier Cornelius; whom Peter was sent to preach to. That vision's purpose was to "clue Peter in" on the fact that the gospel was to go into all the world. Don't call gentiles unclean who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ.

No Scripture is of private interpretation. Any "religious subjects" that turn up in our dreams are not private messages to us from God. There may be truth to them but that still does not constitute direct communication from God.

When I was in a car accident in 2010; I had a dream that I had died and stood on the precipice of eternity and had some entity tell me "Go back, your son needs you." (which was true; but not like I didn't already know that.) What was that, other than a dream about my internal struggle at that time with my own willingness to die. in a certain respect that dream was Scripturally sound; but what I knew already about Scripture is what caused the dream to line up with it's principles. The dream did not make Scripture suddenly "more sound". Scripture does not need us to verify it.

 

[joshua 1 9]

God being omniscient

That word is not in the Bible. So you have no scripture support.

 

[joshua 1 9]

First off; you have to define what this passage means before you decide if your dream lines up to its meaning.

I am not assigning any meaning.

 

[The Righterzpen]

That word is not in the Bible. So you have no scripture support.

Omnipotent and omnipresent aren't in the Bible either. Omniscient means all knowing.

1 John 3:20 says God knows all things.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Omnipotent and omnipresent aren't in the Bible either. Omniscient means all knowing.

Does not mean anything at all because you are using a word that is not in the Bible. We are not to add words to the Word of God. Only Jesus could add to what God gave to Moses

 

[St_Worm2]

["Omniscient"] is not in the Bible. So you have no scripture support.

Omnipotent and omnipresent aren't in the Bible either. Omniscient means all knowing.

1 John 3:20 says God knows all things.

There are many other verses and passages that give Biblical evidence of God being omniscient as well Joshua. Here are a few of them.

Psalms 139
1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
You understand my thought from afar.
3 You scrutinize my path and my lying down,
And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
4 Even before there is a word on my tongue,
Behold, O LORD, You know it all.

15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

Isaiah 46
9 I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Ephesians 1
4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.​

--David
p.s. - I love this verse, and since it concerns this subject, I thought I'd add it to my post. What this verse tells us is that there was never a time in all of eternity past when God did not know and love those of us who are or who will be His own adopted children through faith.

Jeremiah 31
3 The LORD appeared to him from afar, saying,
“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness."
.​

 

[joshua 1 9]

What was that

It was an angel why do you have a problem with that? Jesus teaches us to pray: "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven". "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

If we are going to pray for Earth to become as Heaven is, then we are going to have to know a little bit of something about Heaven. If we are a friend of God then well show us His plans.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.

 

[St_Worm2]

Does not mean anything at all because you are using a word that is not in the Bible. We are not to add words to the Word of God. Only Jesus could add to what God gave to Moses

We make use words like Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Trinity, Godhead, etc., as a means of expressing, in a simplified/concise manner, what we believe the Bible teaches us (the words above, for instance, concern the nature of God).

The church never adds theological terms to the Bible however.

--David

 

[joshua 1 9]

There are many other verses and passages that give Biblical evidence of God being omniscient

That is not how you translate or interpret the Bible. My approach is very expository. I am not interesting in your doctrine or theology. I just want to know what the words in the Bible mean. The word for God's power in the Bible is dynameōs. It is pretty obvious that we get the word dynamite from this Greek word. So if you have a word in the Bible that goes beyond this, then show me your word and lets look at what you have.

 

[joshua 1 9]

God being omniscient

God is not omniscient, we are told: "I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more." (Isaiah 43:25) Not only does He not remember our sins, we are told that there are books in Heaven where He keeps records of all we do. If God remembers everything, why would He need books to record everything?

Malachi 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." (Psalm 103:12) How far is the east from the west? There is a north and a south pole. A place where you can not go any more north or south. But there is no east or west that you can not go any further. Just as the earth continues to spin but there is very little wobble.

 

[The Righterzpen]

It was an angel why do you have a problem with that? Jesus teaches us to pray: "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven". "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

If we are going to pray for Earth to become as Heaven is, then we are going to have to know a little bit of something about Heaven. If we are a friend of God then well show us His plans.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.

LSD was an angel?

And He has revealed His plan to His servants the prophets. What do you think the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was for? That is the plan that has been revealed to his servants the prophets.

 

[St_Worm2]

That is not how you translate or interpret the Bible.

I never said it was!

The terms the church uses, like "Trinity", are credo. IOW, they state, in a very concise manner, what we believe. They express encapsulated (if you will) Biblical truth, so that we have a starting place for discussions and can know that we are all on the same page (or not ) when matters of the Godhead are being discussed (for instance).

The doctrine of the Trinity, and other doctrines like it, are also useful as a kind of protection from the formation of endless, new heresies, as well helping us know immediately when already formulated heretical beliefs are being proposed (in the place of Biblical truth). IOW, such doctrines help us circumscribe and safeguard Biblical teaching that we know to be true (about mysteries like the Godhead, for instance).

Finally, all churches today have SoF (Statements of Faith) and/or use Creeds/Catechisms/Confessions, etc. to express what they believe in a concise manner. Creeds and theological terms don't replace the Bible, they just help us summarize it so that the scope of what we believe the Bible teaches can be easily and quickly read and understood.

--David
p.s. - here's a short video that shows us why church doctrines like the Trinity are important (as it shows us many of the different beliefs that have been created and are now taught as ~supposed~ Biblical "truth", in this case about what the Bible clearly tells us that the Godhead is ~not~ ).

 

[The Righterzpen]

That is not how you translate or interpret the Bible. My approach is very expository. I am not interesting in your doctrine or theology. I just want to know what the words in the Bible mean. The word for God's power in the Bible is dynameōs. It is pretty obvious that we get the word dynamite from this Greek word. So if you have a word in the Bible that goes beyond this, then show me your word and lets look at what you have.

Yet you say dynameos means omnipotent; and so "omnipotent" is in the Bible but "omniscient" is not?

 

[The Righterzpen]

God is not omniscient, we are told: "I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more." (Isaiah 43:25) Not only does He not remember our sins, we are told that there are books in Heaven where He keeps records of all we do. If God remembers everything, why would He need books to record everything?

Malachi 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." (Psalm 103:12) How far is the east from the west? There is a north and a south pole. A place where you can not go any more north or south. But there is no east or west that you can not go any further. Just as the earth continues to spin but there is very little wobble.

To no longer count a sin against the sinner does not mean "omission of omniscience." God is still omniscient.

Penal substitution means Christ paid for the sin of that sinner; so therefore the sin is not remembered because it's already atoned for; not that God somehow forgot about it.

 

[joshua 1 9]

To no longer count a sin against the sinner

We are to overcome the sin. We are to live a life of victory. You need to stop the thread drift. The word we are looking at here is "help" mate meaning ally not a sub-servant as most people would claim. To be sure ally's help each other - on equal terms - they stand together against a common enemy. The wife is co heir with the husband, just as we are co heir with Christ. That is why we will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The doctrine of the Trinity

I do not know what this has to do with Adam & Eve: Man & Women. If you want to start a thread about the Trinity then you are welcome to do that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

LSD was an angel?

And He has revealed His plan to His servants the prophets. What do you think the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was for? That is the plan that has been revealed to his servants the prophets.

I just feel I shared something somewhat personal and you tramped that. So it really makes me not want to share with you anymore. Is that the reaction that you were looking for?

 

[St_Worm2]

I do not know what this has to do with Adam & Eve: Man & Women. If you want to start a thread about the Trinity then you are welcome to do that.

Hi Joshua, it was a follow up or addition to the posts about the word "omniscient" from a little earlier in the thread. I used it as another, common example of a doctrinal or theological term that we 1. don't find in the Bible, but that we nevertheless 2. use to help us protect and teach Biblical truth.

--David

 

[The Righterzpen]

I just feel I shared something somewhat personal and you tramped that. So it really makes me not want to share with you anymore. Is that the reaction that you were looking for?

You quoted me as saying "What was that" without any context as to what I was talking about. The only question I asked was "What is LSD?" And you said:

It was an angel why do you have a problem with that? Jesus teaches us to pray: "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven". "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

If we are going to pray for Earth to become as Heaven is, then we are going to have to know a little bit of something about Heaven. If we are a friend of God then well show us His plans.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.

(LSD is an angel? To me LSD is a hallucinogenic drug. Or are you talking about LDS? (Mormons?))

Are you referring to my car accident dream? To me that dream was simply my mind trying to process my struggle at that time with surviving the accident. I knew my son needed me; but I also knew I wasn't going to survive unless God "made that happen". And the fact that I was still alive the next morning was confirmation enough that apparently is what God wanted. I didn't need some angel to tell me that. It was a dream and nothing more. The canon of Scripture is closed God is not bringing revelation today. And if He was; that would not be the kind He'd bring. All the dreams and visions seen in the Scripture are about Christ in one form or another.

And even if we do dream about Jesus; that doesn't mean those dream is from God either! I can attest to that too! I have plenty of dreams that have Jesus in them. Other than my son; "Jesus" shows up in my dreams more than anyone else. So if these "dreams" are all supposedly messages from God; well one might be able to argue the benign nature of dreaming that Jesus is sitting behind me in a college Bible literature class; but what about the ones where i have sex with Him? Now THAT'S not in the Bible!

Do you understand now why I'm awfully skeptical about "dreams"?

 

[The Righterzpen]

We are to overcome the sin. We are to live a life of victory.

If it's up to us to overcome the sin and live a life of victory; what was the point of the cross? What does it mean that Jesus atones for sin? The verses you quoted about God not remembering sin are not in the Bible to state God is forgetful.

I'd already explained penal substitution means the sin is not brought to remembrance of either God or the sinner because it's already been paid for. And of course; Jesus remembers paying for it!

You need to stop the thread drift.

I directly answered your question as to why Adam and Eve fell. I said they weren't omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal, or from everlasting to everlasting.

From there you insisted God is not omniscient. You are drifting your own thread.