Adam and Evolution: A Reconciliation

[Job 33:6]

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All programmed in and planned .. Earthquakes , volcanos wonderous works of God .. And how about all that flood water safely tucked away by God in the Earth ..

Again, a question was asked, an answer was given. What is the reponse? There is no response, just random unrelated commentary.

I depict a marine succession, no response. Correlating radioactive dates reported by independent laboratories, no response. Observable plate tectonics, no response. I talk about Mt. St. Helens and how it is not comparable to the marine succession, no response. I ask about the geology of the area regarding the radio halos, no response.

 

[4x4toy]

Then what is your explanation for the marine succession we discussed yesterday? What is your explanation for correlating independent radioactive dating?

For the latter, you suggest something is wrong with it, but don't seem to know what is wrong with it, you just seem to have a gut feeling. But saying that your gut feeling suggests its wrong, isn't sufficient.

And as for the prior, I don't recall you responding to it at all, you appeared receptive of my commentary.

How do you know that I consider your arguments old hat been there done that or not ? I appreciate your effort though .. Are you the guy who kept pushing his post 245

 

[Job 33:6]

How do you know that I consider your arguments old hat been there done that or not ? I appreciate your effort though .. Are you the guy who kept pushing his post 245

Whether you think the questions posed are old hat or not, im just pointing out that no response was given in opposition to it.

And, im going to take another step in combining information here.

If we take the marine succession discussed yesterday

and combine it with plate tectonics and uplift,

What you end up with, are sea shells on mountain tops.

No response is given for part number 1, part number 2 (plate tectonics and uplift) are observable with our own eyes.

It follows that the question regarding seashells on mountain tops, has been answered. Its simple, its observable, its reasonable, it is testable.

Why do radioactive dates correlate across independent laboratories? Easy, its because the earth is in fact old.

 

[4x4toy]

I thought I asked you whether or not there would be countless huge global flood tides with countless other cross currents both rising and receding accompanying global flooding and severe hydraulic action . All thing being distributed and settled according to mass and whatnot . Notice the difference in distinguished layers of strata in a canyon . Supposedly thousands of years to produce each, what happened to the in between strata separating one from the next or like Jack mentioned the objects that extend several layers of strata too fast to decay .
I still have little clue of what you ask or mean, perhaps you should get a job writing fortune cookie messages on the side ..

 

[Job 33:6]

Whether you think the questions posed are old hat or not, im just pointing out that no response was given in opposition to it.

And, im going to take another step in combining information here.

If we take the marine succession discussed yesterday

and combine it with plate tectonics and uplift,

What you end up with, are sea shells on mountain tops.

No response is given for part number 1, part number 2 (plate tectonics and uplift) are observable with our own eyes.

It follows that the question regarding seashells on mountain tops, has been answered. Its simple, its observable, its reasonable, it is testable.

Why do radioactive dates correlate across independent laboratories? Easy, its because the earth is in fact old.

Ill take this a step further as well. Rocks break at 30 degree angles under compressional stress. They break at 45 degree angles under tensional stress. Physics independently verifies tectonic uplift in allowing us to backtrack how uplift has occurred. This is only possible under established physics and plate tectonics.

The idea of a global flood knocking continents around like ping pongs utterly defies all physics, chemistry, and plate tectonics, and cannot explain why the rocks of today appear as though they have undergone normal, non catastrophic orogenesis.

 

[Job 33:6]

I thought I asked you whether or not there would be countless huge global flood tides with countless other cross currents both rising and receding accompanying global flooding and severe hydraulic action . All thing being distributed and settled according to mass and whatnot . Notice the difference in distinguished layers of strata in a canyon . Supposedly thousands of years to produce each, what happened to the in between strata separating one from the next or like Jack mentioned the objects that extend several layers of strata too fast to decay .
I still have little clue of what you ask or mean, perhaps you should get a job writing fortune cookie messages on the side ..

See above. In an event where waters cover the tallest of mountains, there really is no way for swaths of organized strata in a neat succession, to be deposited. Further, fossils within these rocks contain things like burrows, nests, footprints, things that indicate a regular everyday lifestyle by the animals living in them.

Your proposition of huge tides is chaotic. But what we see is not chaotic, it is serene. Further, it defies physics.

 

[4x4toy]

Ill take this a step further as well. Rocks break at 30 degree angles under compressional stress. They break at 45 degree angles under tensional stress. Physics independently verifies tectonic uplift in allowing us to backtrack how uplift has occurred. This is only possible under established physics and plate tectonics.

The idea of a global flood knocking continents around like ping pongs utterly defies all physics, chemistry, and plate tectonics, and cannot explain why the rocks of today appear as thought they have undergone normal, non catastrophic orogenesis.

How do you explain rock formations that are actually bent wavey with radius . I have no problem and no one at least not me ever even though continents were ever knocked around , in fact if all water and oceans were removed there would be solid ground all around and connected ..

 

[Job 33:6]

How do you explain rock formations that are actually bent wavey with radius . I have no problem and no one at least not me ever even though continents were ever knocked around , in fact if all water and oceans were removed there would be solid ground all around and connected ..

Could I get some credit for any of my responses?

You have to admit, continental drift is observable, we can measure the rise of the himilayas with satellites and the rate of continental drift (its about as fast as our finger nails grow). We should at least give some credit where credit is due.

How do we explain rocks that are bent in waves?
The answer is subduction, orogenesis and metamorphosis. This is actually another good reason old earth geology succeeds over young earth.

As rocks are compressed during orogenesis or subduction, and when heated up, they become more pliable like plastic, and the minerals within them become lineated. And there are laboratories full of physics gurus who will sit around putting rocks in ovens and smashing them under hydraulic compressors. This is real stuff, im not making it up. There are even tables that show how rock transforms under extreme heat and energy. You can tell, just by looking at certain kinds of rocks, the heat and pressure they were subjected to during formation. See below.



In the video below, you will see not only that some rock is uplifted (usually continental rock, lighter weight felsic granits). But also, there is subduction. Heavier rock (mafic rocks like basalts, sink beneath the lighter rock).

Young earth geology cannot account for the existence of things like komatiites. The heat and pressure necessary for the formation of metamorphic rocks in todays world, if confined to formation in a few days by a global flood, would be so much heat and energy in such a short period of time, that the planet would end up being molten ball of magma.

But, if you spread that pressure out over a long period of time, and you include subduction (which is also observable today) and slow and gradual orogenesis and uplift, you can mathematically account for the deformation and metamorphosis that we see today, without the planet turning into a ball of magma.

 

[Job 33:6]

Ill take it a step further. Pencil structures, lineated fractures, form at the center of large folds. The physics necessary for formation of such structures, really can only be done slowly and gradually over time. Instantaneous mountain formation during a global flood could not form the specific features we see in mountains. If mountains were deposited as is, they wouldn't undergo the stress and strain necessary for the formation of the types of fractures we see.

There are also planar erosional features, demonstrating rock on rock motion as a result of tectonic compression. If a global flood were responsible for depositing mountain, we wouldn't have rock on rock motion or scratch like rock on rock features. If we said that the mountains pre existed the flood, then you end up with this idea that flood waters pushed the mountains around, which then turns us back to the issue of having the rock under so much heat and pressure that the rock would melt due to high amounts of energy.

 

[Job 33:6]

but all of this can easily be explained if we just say...you know what, maybe the earth is old after all. And all these unanswered questions poof, go away.

 

[Job 33:6]

And I can keep going further. This is just the beginning.

We can see ancient stream beds within deformed rock. With this same basic physics, we can reverse fold that very same rock and see where that stream was flowing. Deposited by global flood? It could not have been. Folded by pressure caused by a global flood? Again, it could not be.

Caused by gradual motion of plate tectonics? (which is observable with the naked eye happening today), easy, no problem.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Luke was a Doctor, right ? What is your scripture source ?

You seem to be misunderstanding me about medical care brother.......I'm talking about believers who are perhaps well-meaning, but foolish. To the point of thinking that it is a sin to receive anything that is of the world, including medical care.....a branch of science.

Just wanted to make the point that .....sometimes unbelievers are more sensible than believers.......as Jesus said:

Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

 

[4x4toy]

You seem to be misunderstanding me about medical care brother.......I'm talking about believers who are perhaps well-meaning, but foolish. To the point of thinking that it is a sin to receive anything that is of the world, including medical care.....a branch of science.

Just wanted to make the point that .....sometimes unbelievers are more sensible than believers.......as Jesus said:

Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

You might want to break down your scripture a little more there friend, I ain't getting nothing like your preaching ..

 

[4x4toy]

but all of this can easily be explained if we just say...you know what, maybe the earth is old after all. And all these unanswered questions poof, go away.

What does age have to do with it, you do realize you're not as impressive as you imagine

 

[HeLeadethMe]

You might want to break down your scripture a little more there friend, I ain't getting nothing like your preaching ..

I'm not preaching, just sharing an observation. I know there is a larger meaning to that passage as a whole, nevertheless that one statement is true, and there's plenty of proof in the pudding if we have eyes to see it.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

4x4 why don't you share your revelation of the creation account..

 

[GUANO]

Here is a great series on the subject, from one of the most intelligent minds on the planet right now. Watch with discernment:

 

[Job 33:6]

What does age have to do with it, you do realize you're not as impressive as you imagine

Age has everything to do with it.

Imagine if you had say, 5 pounds of cookie dough between your hands. In one scenario, you squeezed the cookie dough together very slowly. It squished and pieces of it had risen above and below other pieces. When you squeeze the dough slowly, youre building dough mountains just as plate tectonics slowly builds mountains.

Some young earthers believe that continents moved quickly during the flood, that Pangea was split by the oceans of the deep. Antarctica has tropical trees, fossilized beneath its iced sheets. Some propose that Antarctica moved from the equator to the south pole quickly, in response to this flood. Others propose that the flood built the mountains.

With cookie dough, if you smash your hands together at 50 miles per hour, the dough would become obliterated and would fly all over the walls due to the high amounts of energy transferred from your hands to the dough. This analogy is more in line with young earth views of accelerated continental drift. And so to would continents, mountains even, be obliterated in such a high energy environment where in a matter of days, continents were pushed apart hundreds of miles.

Time, lots of time, millions of years, makes the most complex geologic features, much easier to explain as they can be built one step at a time, without the need of super high energy, physics defying, rationality defying occurrences.

But, beyond that, its just more reasonable to recognize these events (mountain building and continental drift) as slow events, because this is as we see them in todays world, theyre very slow, and we know it works, its possible and it is what is happening now. The continents move very slowly (about the rate our finger nails grow, this is observed today). And so, it would take many millions of years for them to separate (African separating from south America for example).

And would you believe further that rates of tectonic drift also correlate with radioactive dating of the hawaiin islands? Two completely independent observations from different fields of science. Synchronized. A coincidence? No. It isn't a coincidence.

 

[4x4toy]

4x4 why don't you share your revelation of the creation account..

You've got to be kidding

Age has everything to do with it.

Imagine if you had say, 5 pounds of cookie dough between your hands. In one scenario, you squeezed the cookie dough together very slowly. It squished and pieces of it had risen above and below other pieces. When you squeeze the dough slowly, youre building dough mountains just as plate tectonics slowly builds mountains.

Some young earthers believe that continents moved quickly during the flood, that Pangea was split by the oceans of the deep. Antarctica has tropical trees, fossilized beneath its iced sheets. Some propose that Antarctica moved from the equator to the south pole quickly, in response to this flood. Others propose that the flood built the mountains.

With cookie dough, if you smash your hands together at 50 miles per hour, the dough would become obliterated and would fly all over the walls due to the high amounts of energy transferred from your hands to the dough. This analogy is more in line with young earth views of accelerated continental drift. And so to would continents, mountains even, be obliterated in such a high energy environment where in a matter of days, continents were pushed apart hundreds of miles.

Time, lots of time, millions of years, makes the most complex geologic features, much easier to explain as they can be built one step at a time, without the need of super high energy, physics defying, rationality defying occurrences.

But, beyond that, its just more reasonable to recognize these events (mountain building and continental drift) as slow events, because this is as we see them in todays world, theyre very slow, and we know it works, its possible and it is what is happening now. The continents move very slowly (about the rate our finger nails grow, this is observed today). And so, it would take many millions of years for them to separate (African separating from south America for example).

And would you believe further that rates of tectonic drift also correlate with radioactive dating of the hawaiin islands? Two completely independent observations from different fields of science. Synchronized. A coincidence? No. It isn't a coincidence.

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[JacksBratt]

My own experience is that my faith increased because i read Christ's words in the gospel, and over time I gained more and more faith from His very Words right there in the gospels, and this eventually also converted me in a true way (better than my original belief when young, more full).

I can tell you I would believe even if not required.

So, you believe all the supernatural events of Christ's life as a man on earth, However, you think He has mislead you when He told you that He spoke the universe into existence in six days... Something He is clearly capable of.

And........you base your unbelief in His words on the words and mental assumptions of other mere humans?

You basically are putting the earthly knowledge of men above the integrity of the Words of God.

Personally........I believe that the only reason that many Christians have not called the Gospel Account and all the events of Jesus' life an allegorical commentary is for the simple fact that the eternal state of their soul depends on it.... otherwise... it would be written off just like the other events of the bible that the Atheistic hive mind has denied to be real.

Satan is the great deceiver...many will fall to his trickery.

I cannot fall for his lies if I take the word of God as it was written....