Adam and Eve incorrectly blamed?

[love&forgiveness]

thought it might be some help , we are all decieved by satan , but this is no excuse to trust him over the Creator , yes adam and eve were correctly blamed , for they chose satan , nobody else did , it was them , i saw them , i was hiding in the bushes

 

[HadouKen24]

Right, you were there when it happened...

You're just restating things again, you know.

 

[love&forgiveness]

i can give you many reasons why they are to blame.
they disobeyed God.
they were ungrateful , greedy , unsatisfied - for He gave them everything and they still wanted more.
disrespectful to the highest being of all , by believing the creature , over Him the Creator.
they called Him a liar , doubted His word and they stopped trying to please Him and chose to please themselves.

God bless
paul

 

[Dyrwen]

That's quite a big red herring, now would you please answer the questions presented.

 

[love&forgiveness]

i would think that God being the one who created their understanding , would be able to make them understand what He meant by death , even if we may not today.

 

[Dyrwen]

i would think that God being the one who created their understanding , would be able to make them understand what He meant by death , even if we may not today.

God cannot allow them to know "what" death is, without first showing them how death is. Their eating, and gaining of the knowledge of good and evil allowed them to therefore learn about death, for without eating of it, they would merely have lived forever.

Whether God allowed them to know what death is or not, is irrelevant, as it is unaswerable, although my reasoning shows quite clearly that one cannot fear death as a consequence if one has had no experiences with it. They did not.

You continue to "think" about occurences and assumptions, yet you avoid the obvious clarity in which I've presented them being convinced of their choices being reasonable.

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

they were ungrateful , greedy , unsatisfied - for He gave them everything and they still wanted more.

paul

He obviously didn't give them everything if there was something more to want.

 

[love&forgiveness]

their minds were not polluted by sin like ours are , they had no reason to question the Almighty.
we don't know what death is today , not really , having not experienced it.
we have not the understanding of God , for we are not equal to God , God gave them the understanding they needed for a perfect life , death in my understanding , would be an end to this life.
satan offered them death , and they took it.
He gave them everything they needed , they didn't need to know of sin.
they only wanted it when they listened to satan for he is the deciever , and is the one to tempt you from God.
who would you rather listen to and follow , one who gives you all things in perfection and a perfect life , or one who offers you an alternative to this , but as given you nothing?

 

[HadouKen24]

1) I can't find the verse that says the snake was actually Satan.

2) The snake did NOT offer death. It offered wisdom.

3) You keep missing the point. How could Adam and Eve choose good over evil if they had knowledge of neither? If they had had such knowledge, then they would not have eaten from the tree! If you interpret the verses literally, then you cannot avoid the conclusion that God was being about as responsible as a man who leaves loaded pistols in a toddler's playroom!

 

[love&forgiveness]

what are you saying, that you don't believe the serpent was satan or at least possesed of satan?
i don't think the serpent offered wisdom,it was knowledge of good and evil,and the knowledge of these things which they did not have would result in the death of the world as they knew it.wisdom only comes from using the knowledge you have for good if you use you knowledge for evil this is foolish.
they had knowledge of perfection,they had knowledge of the power of God,they had knowledge that this powerful being had given them life and gave them a commandment.they chose to go against the will of the all powerful Creator.they were not kids they had knowledge, they just didn't have knowledge of good and evil.
it's hard for us to imagine life without good and evil,for we have no experince of that.
but they knew everything else just not good and evil.
they made the choice of the creature over the Creator.
who are we to question God.

 

[Dyrwen]

they were not kids they had knowledge, they just didn't have knowledge of good and evil.
it's hard for us to imagine life without good and evil,for we have no experince of that.
but they knew everything else just not good and evil.
they made the choice of the creature over the Creator.
who are we to question God.

Proper judging of choices are impossible to determine without previous experience to gain said knowledge as to the outcome's possibilites. They were basically children, but even endowed with the knowledge God gave them, they did not know right or wrong, good or evil. They were merely left to believe God was good and since he was good, all were good. There was no ideal of what is not good, since there were no consequences shown as to what would show itself as evil.

Your case is without merit, as you have shown no understanding of the reasoning behind the ways of knowledge in this matter.

"Who are we to question God?" Well, if we had known no consequences of God, then we would be one to question him. They had not experienced the Floods, the damnation into Hell, the loss of others around them, the pain and suffering life brings. They merely lived happily, without fear from anything, as they knew not good nor evil.

 

[Philosoft]

their minds were not polluted by sin like ours are , they had no reason to question the Almighty.

Then why did they do it? Random act of stupidity or rebellion?

He gave them everything they needed , they didn't need to know of sin.
they only wanted it when they listened to satan for he is the deciever , and is the one to tempt you from God.

Well, obviously the serpent did not tell them, "If you do this, bad things will happen." And obviously, they had some reason to trust the serpent (or at least no reason not to).

who would you rather listen to and follow , one who gives you all things in perfection and a perfect life , or one who offers you an alternative to this , but as given you nothing?

Like I said, the serpent must have made an attractive offer, otherwise you have to take the absurd position that they willingly chose to do something that they knew had undesirable consequences.

 

[love&forgiveness]

this is my understanding maybe if you have no respect for God you can't understand.
God gave them love and they knew of His power God is the Almighty Creator to be given respect and to be worshiped and obeyed they went against the word of their Almighty God and believed the most subtil creature over Him

 

[HadouKen24]

I assure you, love&forgiveness, I have plenty of respect for God. Respect for God is not the issue. I don't have to "respect" the Hindu trinity to understand it.

I wonder, though, if you actually understand my position.

what are you saying, that you don't believe the serpent was satan or at least possesed of satan?

I'm saying that I can't find any Scripture to support that idea. It looks like something that the church just made up, like losing years in purgatory by looking at "relics."

 

[love&forgiveness]

there are verse that point to this such as:
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
i'll try and find more if you want.

 

[CushBabylonian]

Interesting..my thoughts to come

 

[Philosoft]

this is my understanding maybe if you have no respect for God you can't understand.

My arguments are reasonable independent of any respect I might have for something I don't believe in.

God gave them love and they knew of His power God is the Almighty Creator to be given respect and to be worshiped and obeyed they went against the word of their Almighty God and believed the most subtil creature over Him

Well, that's nice, but restating the problem as if it was somehow not a problem is not apologetics.

 

[love&forgiveness]

Well, that's nice, but restating the problem as if it was somehow not a problem is not apologetics.

huh?

 

[Philosoft]

huh?

You didn't respond to any of my arguments. You just summarized what happened in Genesis.

 

[love&forgiveness]

Then why did they do it? Random act of stupidity or rebellion?
Well, obviously the serpent did not tell them, "If you do this, bad things will happen." And obviously, they had some reason to trust the serpent (or at least no reason not to).
Like I said, the serpent must have made an attractive offer, otherwise you have to take the absurd position that they willingly chose to do something that they knew had undesirable consequences.

stupidity,no they did not have this excuse,foolish maybe.
rebellion,maybe,for they did rebel against God they disobeyed Him and went against His word.
that was the problem they doubted God s word they took their faith from God and put it in a subtil serpent.
How disrespectful and insulting is that.
the serpent was very cunning,but it doesn't change the fact that they had to doubt God to believe him.
God bless.
paul