Adam and Eve incorrectly blamed?

[Infinity's Dice]

Thank you!

 

[love&forgiveness]

sorry infinity's dice,had to go earlier, but in reply, the only proof i have is the love i am given, by believing, the more i believe the more i understand and am rewarded, by feeling His love i know what i believe to be true and the more i believe the more sense it makes until it is impossible not to believe, the more you believe the more you are able to believe and by believing the more you are able to recieve, i also had many questions, but the more i believe the more i know ,but when you start doubting that's when you start going backwards, and are open to sin, we grow in strength in Christ, the stronger we are in Him the more we shine for others to see our example of love and forgiveness through Him, i've gone the way of the world searching for the ultimate feeling of ecstacy, i thought i had found it a few times, but later learnt i was under the influence of these pleasures, and never really had what i was looking for which is the one who created all and has all the answers, His love is pure, and doesn't currupt our minds and bodies but gives us all we've ever searched for and ever needed that being what as been there from the beginning of time His love.adam and eve had is love but they rejected it,God still offers us His love but we have to reach out and take it, we have to chose Him above all else, and it's only through believing in Him that this is possible, for the more we do believe the more love is given to us and then we share this love with others, the love that shines within us is proof to others, for we being in Christ are called to show others the love of Christ, by being loving and forgiving as He was to us.it's like a circle the more we believe in His love the more love we have for others and by loving others we show that we are of Christ, there is the proof the love that shines from us.
i know some may call for miracles, which i do believe in, but those that call for miracles call for them out of disbelief, i believe true miracles come from true belief.
hope this helps in some way.

adam and eve called God a liar by not believing Him,for if you don't believe what someone says are you not calling them a liar.

they did not know if the serpent was wrong,for they knew not of right and wrong only the word of God,it's hard for us to grasp because we define most things as right or wrong but they did not have this knowledge,they had everything that was good,they chose to risk this,they doubted their Creator who gave them all.
God bless.
paul.

 

[love&forgiveness]

(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[love&forgiveness]

they stopped believing in God,and believed something else above Him,that's what we still do today we put our faith in other things instead of in God and His perfect Love.

 

[Rainbow.]

So what's with this bit in the New Testament, where the devil tempts Christ? I thought the whole point of that was Christ DIDN'T give in.

And Christ knew it was wrong in the first place. Unlike, apparently, Adam and Eve.

Let's try a dictionary.

temp·ta·tion: noun
1 : the act of tempting or the state of being tempted especially to evil : ENTICEMENT
2 : something tempting : a cause or occasion of enticement



No, Merriam-Webster doesn't agree with you either.





Sorry, that's a reprehensible form of morality.

If a person does something unknowing that what they do is wrong, that what they do is hurting other people, the should not be held accountable for having done wrong.

Secondly, there's the nature of what they did. They ate a fruit. From this fruit, they gained knowledge. Does this mean that God would prefer us to be ignorant?



The latter verse is supposed to support the former claim, I assume? How so? If a person has a childlike simplicity, and no need to labor (or I assume have dominion over the animals of the earth) why would that person be suspicious of any creature created by their God? And why would he or she assume that they were superior to the creatures of the world?



You haven't shown otherwise, hon.

Your whole point of view rest on Adam and Eve being dim wits, sorry.. of having child like innocents...where mine is based on them being intelligent people!

 

[love&forgiveness]

yes, it would be better for us if we were ignorant to sin, if we had never known it.
adam and eve only knew one thing that which was perfect and that was God, they chose to go against this, knowning He gave them life and everything they could ever need to make their lives perfect in every way, so by going against this they chose the opposite of this, and what is the opposite of perfection and happiness in every way? they also chose death, they may of not seen anything die to know what death was, but i think they would know it was the end of the life they had in some way.for what is death we never really die, we just leave one existence for another.

 

[HadouKen24]

Your whole point of view rest on Adam and Eve being dim wits, sorry.. of having child like innocents...where mine is based on them being intelligent people!

Having child-like innocence and being intelligent are not mutually exclusive. Some of the smartest people in the world are naive as heck.

The rest of the points have already been made and dealt with. Repeating yourself isn't going to work...

 

[Dyrwen]

Ok... to ME temptation is ,when you have been told/asked not to do something,you go ahead and do it anyway because you want to find out for yourself!
The consequence's of their actions isn't the point..whether they knew it was good or evil
is secondary to what they did.
Surely they would realise that they were above a serpent!
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
So please dont think that Adam And Eve where some kind of innocents who knew no better.

Without consequences being known and realized as right or wrong, the ideas that are right and wrong mean nothing.

Man was somehow greater than all that existed on this world, yet God was greater than they. This Serpent knew more than God claimed to tell them, so they felt the Serpent had more knowledge than God in this case.

I do not care what you feel God told them, I merely infer that although God said they were better than the creatures of the Earth doesn't mean that they still could not find guidance from these beings which can talk and think. They have "dominion", merely power, over the creatures of Earth, not knowledge.

Apparently even the Serpent knew more of right and wrong than they did, because he knew that because they had no idea of what was right or wrong, that he could easily lead them into trouble, seeing as they knew no better.

Their minds were innocent to the idea of reason, to the thought of morality. For as the first two beings on this Planet, they knew not of what was wrong, as God was the only being informing them of what "not" to do, but without consequences or realizations of the consequences through Trial and Error, one will not know or be able to determine how the world works or what things are right or wrong.

 

[love&forgiveness]

God warned them they would die and that is what happened ,they were given paradise or ecstacy ,whatever you may call it ,it was perfect in every way ,they only had to obey one thing and they could live this life forever ,but no they believed the creature over the Creator ,and what happened ,their life as they knew it was no more ,they disobeyed the almighty and called Him a liar ,if they was not punished this way God would have been a liar, which He is not.
God bless.
paul

 

[Infinity's Dice]

yes, it would be better for us if we were ignorant to sin, if we had never known it.

Within the context of the Biblical narrative, I disagree, for two major reasons:



1) As far as I'm aware Eve was either not able to conceive before she ate of the apple, or she hadn't discovered sex yet. In either case, the argument could be made that they needed to discover sin before they were able to reproduce. So it wouldn't be better for us had Adam and Eve not eaten the fruit, because otherwise, one way or another, we wouldn't be here.



2) I personally think that it would have been Gods plan for the fall to have happened. Everything's the will of God, right? Everything's a part of God's plan? If God didn't want for the fall to have happened, he could have prevented it in an unlimited number of ways. So, wishing that the fall never happened would be against God's will, and therefore a sin against God?



Not even going to go over the rest of this post. Too incoherent, poorly worded, and I'm too tired anyways.



Take care of yourself.

 

[love&forgiveness]

(Gen 3:15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(Gen 3:16) Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

this suggests to me that they were able to reproduce before a lot more naturally and perfectly.

The will of God was told to Adam and Eve ,they went against His will ,Gods will is for us all to believe in Him ,and obey Him but we do have the choice ,He gave us a mind to chose for ourselves ,He shows us His way the perfect way with all we could ever want and need ,but satan offers us another way which many of us seem to prefer ,my will also would be for all to follow God but everyone has their own choice ,we wouldn't be alive as we are today without the choices we have, without the ability to chose are we human?
God bless
paul

 

[Dyrwen]

God warned them they would die and that is what happened ,they were given paradise or ecstacy ,whatever you may call it ,it was perfect in every way ,they only had to obey one thing and they could live this life forever ,but no they believed the creature over the Creator ,and what happened ,their life as they knew it was no more ,they disobeyed the almighty and called Him a liar ,if they was not punished this way God would have been a liar, which He is not.
God bless.
paul

What is death, to those that know not the loss that death brings? What is death, to those who have not felt the danger of losing their lives?

How do you know what death is, even now, when you have not experienced it for yourself? Even if you have experienced it, you know it is not a good thing, now. But before then, you were merely supposing it was a bad thing to let happen.

A threat of "death" is of no importance to those who have no perception as to what death is.

 

[love&forgiveness]

death is the end of a life as you know it ,if someone or something dies it is no longer alive in this world as we know it.there is no doubt the body dies right?i believe we will go to a better place after our death ,that's what the word of God has told me ,the word of God told adam and eve they would die, God has a way of making you understand what you need to know, He forbid it ,don't forget the respect God deserves He's much more than a king or a father He is a more powerful being than we could ever imagine He is the Creator the Almighty He is God.i would suppose they feared Him to an extent, He gave them fair warning and it was obvious it was against His will.
off to bed now.
God bless.
paul

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

A couple of things.

Was there a heaven before 'the fall'? If so, why? Was there even a soul? Why? If there was no death, why the need for a soul or a 'better place' for it to go to?

How the heck did the snake get in there?

Also, I don't think they could've reproduced before 'the fall'. Mainly because there are no accounts of their children eating the fruit.

Also...what would've happened if Adam had not eaten the fruit?

On the subject of temptation. I think this was brought up: Why would God put the tree there if he didn't want them to eat from it?

 

[Rainbow.]

A couple of things.

Was there a heaven before 'the fall'? If so, why? Was there even a soul? Why? If there was no death, why the need for a soul or a 'better place' for it to go to?

How the heck did the snake get in there?

Also, I don't think they could've reproduced before 'the fall'. Mainly because there are no accounts of their children eating the fruit.

Also...what would've happened if Adam had not eaten the fruit?

On the subject of temptation. I think this was brought up: Why would God put the tree there if he didn't want them to eat from it?

I think there must have been a heaven for a place for God to dwell in.
As for how the snake got in there, maybe God put him there to test Adam & Eve.
As for God putting the tree there, Maybe that was because in his heart he wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.
It would have been much more satisfying for God to have placed the tree there, and they not eat the fruit, rather than having no tree at all.
Maybe if Adam & Eve, had never touched the fruit, maybe we would be living in a totally peaceful world devoid of all sin?!
The only thing that is for sure, is that we will never know for sure, all of the answers to our questions in this lifetime!

 

[Infinity's Dice]

I think there must have been a heaven for a place for God to dwell in.
As for how the snake got in there, maybe God put him there to test Adam & Eve.

I've never understood God's need to "test" people. Tests are, in the human world at least, admistered to figure out something about people. An omniscient god should not need to test people -- it implies that he doesn't really know everything.

Also, a common arguement used by theists to resolve the "where does God come from" paradox is that God exists outside of time. If God can exist outside of time, why does he need a physical manifestation of heaven? More conveniant for Him?

As for God putting the tree there, Maybe that was because in his heart he wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Again, why would an omniscient being need to give anyone "the benefit of the doubt?" Darest thou cast doubts on God's all-knowingness?

It would have been much more satisfying for God to have placed the tree there, and they not eat the fruit, rather than having no tree at all.

Firstly, why does God need to have emotions? I can see how emotions would be useful to a finite, limited being, but for the life of me, I cannot see why God would ever need more than, at most, one emotion.

Secondly, doesn't it strike you as odd that God set the tree right in the middle of the Garden? It's almost as if he expected Adam and Eve to eat from it from the Beginning. Sorry, random thought.

Maybe if Adam & Eve, had never touched the fruit, maybe we would be living in a totally peaceful world devoid of all sin?!

Maybe. Assuming that Genesis should be interpreted as being literally true, and assuming that your literally true interpretation is correct...

The only thing that is for sure, is that we will never know for sure, all of the answers to our questions in this lifetime!

A-yup.

 

[Dyrwen]

death is the end of a life as you know it ,if someone or something dies it is no longer alive in this world as we know it.there is no doubt the body dies right?i believe we will go to a better place after our death ,that's what the word of God has told me ,the word of God told adam and eve they would die, God has a way of making you understand what you need to know, He forbid it ,don't forget the respect God deserves He's much more than a king or a father He is a more powerful being than we could ever imagine He is the Creator the Almighty He is God.i would suppose they feared Him to an extent, He gave them fair warning and it was obvious it was against His will.
off to bed now.
God bless.
paul

You are quite good at avoiding the question.

I did not ask what you felt happens after you die. Or what occurs at death at all. I asked, "What is death, to those that know not the loss that death brings? What is death, to those who have not felt the danger of losing their lives?" And actually, my whole post was a long question.

You managed to turn your answer into a preaching explanation of how you believe in God, yet were obviously unable to answer my inquiries.

I would like you to do so, now.

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

Ok, it says right here. God MADE the serpent. Question: How'd the serpent get so crafty? Why would God make a creature more clever than humans--his 'favored'?

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Ok, the snake is telling the truth...sort of. But how does the snake know this? Did the snake eat from the tree? Did God ever forbid the animals from snacking on it?

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

How did Eve know what wisdom was? or Knowledge?

Eve: Evil..Wazzat?
Snake: Eat the fruit and find out
Eve: Well, this snake has been so nice..it can't be anything BAD...

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

Ok. Assuming the serpent is correct and God knows good and evil where as Adam and Eve do not. After they eat from the tree they realize they are naked and cover up because it is 'evil'. Now, if Adam and Eve know evil as God does...would that mean God thought nakedness was evil? If so, why let them run around naked?

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me-she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"

The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

Question: When did the woman know she was deceived? Certainly not before. Did she know such a thing as deception existed?

Also, I think it's been pointed out numerous times that God said if they ate from the tree they'd die. So...what was will all the other punishments?

 

[love&forgiveness]

(Rev 12:9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[Pooty]

Love, you're really good at posting stuff that doesn't involve to topic. Does desperate bible quote attack syndrome come with the basic christian package? or is it an add on?