Hey SG, we agree about the 70th week being contiguous, and the atonement taking place in the middle of it. But have you been challenged by Futurists asking, “What about the last 3½ years? Why didn’t something of significance happen then? How do you answer them?
I might have to modify my ideas and emphasis a bit. So, the end of the O.C. was at the cross. Hmmm, yes.
However, the last 3½ years had things that needed to be fulfilled too. Ive already mentioned the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Ill elaborate on the 'anointing' clause tomorrow.
I agree that there was yet more to be fulfilled AFTER the Cross. As you've mentioned....Pentecost is one necessary fulfillment after the Cross in order for Jesus' words that "all that was written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled" to be true. That still leaves more Feasts to be fulfilled (as per this calendar of feasts):I might have to modify my ideas and emphasis a bit. So, the end of the O.C. was at the cross. Hmmm, yes.
However, the last 3½ years had things that needed to be fulfilled too. Ive already mentioned the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Ill elaborate on the 'anointing' clause tomorrow.
The opening post is my response to a common assumption that the Old Covenant ended when the Jewish temple was destroyed in AD 70.
There have been several misconceptions concerning the forty-year period between the crucifixion of Christ and the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans in AD 70. Both arise from competing interpretations of Daniel’s prophecy of the 70 weeks. (Daniel 9:24-27)
The answer is quite simple. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
- The first misconception comes from those who believe that Daniel’s 70th week was unhooked from the other weeks and sent to the future. In their argument with those who say that the weeks were contiguous they ask, “but how can the 70th week stretch over forty years to include the events of Christ’s ministry as well as the destruction of Jerusalem?” (verse 27)
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I would like us to discuss this second point with any who are interested. In the meanwhile, please do the poll: (up to 3 answers allowed)
- The second misconception comes from those who wish to magnify the importance of the AD 70 event. Their reasoning is that sacrifice of animals completely stopped then. Therefore, that must have been when the Old Covenant completely ceased! Tied into this reasoning is their interpretation of the ‘last days.’ They are the days (in their view) that lead up to the termination of the Mosaic order in AD 70.
I agree that there was yet more to be fulfilled AFTER the Cross. As you've mentioned....Pentecost is one necessary fulfillment after the Cross in order for Jesus' words that "all that was written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled" to be true. That still leaves more Feasts to be fulfilled (as per this calendar of feasts):
I personally believe God *always* welcomed, through His covenant, the worship of the Gentiles - it was the tribalism mentality of the Israelites that kept them "shut out of heaven" and that's just what had Christ Jesus so angry with the Pharisees when He spoke this to them:The thing that I want to put forward is the promise that God gave to Abraham - that in him, "all the nations of the earth would be blessed." When was this promise fulfilled (or rather) when was it fully opened to the Gentiles?
I'm pointing out that, in order for Jesus' words to have been true, ALL the feasts would have been needed to have been fulfilled by Him (and I believe they were). You pointed out the fulfillment of Pentecost - which was AFTER the Cross - there were more, I believe. I'm not referring to people adhering to the Feasts - but Jesus' fulfillment of them. Jesus instructed His followers to "go and wait for the promised gift from the Father"....they waited for 50 days (fulfilling the Day of Pentecost):So, any feasts being kept after Fall AD 30 would have been unacceptable.
Well, we know he fullfilled Passover. (1 Cor 5:7) He fullfilled Pentecost. (Acts 2:16) He fullfilled Tabernacles. (Hebrews 9:12) So, any feasts being kept after Fall AD 30 would have been unacceptable.
The thing that I want to put forward is the promise that God gave to Abraham - that in him, "all the nations of the earth would be blessed." When was this promise fulfilled (or rather) when was it fully opened to the Gentiles?
We looked at #5 yesterday. Now I’d like us to consider the #6 clause as to when it was fulfilled in the 70th week. This saying, “to anoint the Most Holy,” has been subject to misunderstanding with arguments as to whether it refers to Jesus’ anointing, or to a temple yet un-built. Needless to say, dispensational teachers apply it to a future Jewish temple. In support of that, they claim the ‘most holy’ is speaking of a place - not of a person. (hebrew - Quodesh quodesh)Here are the 6 clauses as Daniel said it:
“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city,
- to finish the transgression,
- make an end of sins,
- to make reconciliation for iniquity,
- to bring in everlasting righteousness,
- to seal up vision and prophecy,
- and to anoint the Most Holy.”
I absolutely agree. I also see patterns that He uses in order to maybe reveal Truth more clearly to us. For instance.....the giving of the Law at Mt Sinai and then the entrance to the Promised Land was a process - not an immediate occurrence. I believe the same is true of the New Testament believers - that there was a "giving of the New Covenant".....but then God allowed for time, in His mercy, for that New Creation to be processed....matured.... and grasped more fully.So, God works with absolute precision in what scripture calls, ‘the Times.’
Hello Christian, what you don't realise is that prophecy is actually seeing into the future. So we must not put what we as Christians knows as Jesus being the fulfilment of scriptures to the modern nation of Israel where Daniel prophecy is about.One of the reasons I started this thread was to address the assumption that animal sacrifice until the temple’s destruction infers a transition between the Old and New Covenants. That idea might not have mattered if it wasn’t for the fact that a group of prophecy teachers (Preterists) have built it into a system of ending prophetic fulfilment in AD 70. In so doing, they deny us insight into later historical fulfilments, and also last-day events to come. In fairness, some Partial Preterists are more reasonable about it. I call them ‘Partial-Partial-Preterists’ (PPP)
My main argument, is that Daniel 9:24 explicitly says that the New Covenant would be fully in place by the end of the 70th week. I’d just like to add that the early church also believed the Old Covenant had passed well before AD 70. Here is a quote:
"For we have ascertained beyond doubt that God is much rather displeased with the sacrifices which you offer, the time of sacrifices having now passed away; and because ye will not acknowledge that the time for offering victims is now past, therefore the temple shall be destroyed." (Clement, Recognitions, Ch. 64)
Hello Christian, what you don't realise is that prophecy is actually seeing into the future.
Okay appreciate your responseBut prophecy eventually arrives and then we call it 'seeing into the past.' Everyone here has different ideas about how much has past, but, in the case of the 70th week, I agree with those who say its already fulfilled.
There are other prophecies that come after that of course. Soon, Im going to start a discussion about them, but if you want to start a new thread about the 70th week, Ill join in.
in the case of the 70th week, I agree with those who say its already fulfilled.
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