Acts 18:4

[janxharris]

It means what it says

So Paul preached salvation through belief in a resurrection that was never intended (your words) for a certain group? It is your theology that forces such an absurdity.

It is not okay to tell one of those ones whom you say salvation was never intended for to believe in the resurrection (which was not intended for them) for their salvation.

 

[AndOne]

So Paul preached salvation through belief in a resurrection that was never intended (your words) for a certain group? It is your theology that forces such an absurdity.

It is not okay to tell one of those ones whom you say salvation was never intended for to believe in the resurrection (which was not intended for them) for their salvation.

- I've been through all this with you before.... So stop putting words in my mouth, misinterpreting what I say, and making incorrect assumptions about Calvinism. Thanks.

 

[Jack Terrence]

It is not okay to tell one of those ones whom you say salvation was never intended for to believe in the resurrection (which was not intended for them) for their salvation.

Correct. And the apostles NEVER did that. They had the authority to know who would come to believe and they told THEM to believe in the resurrection.

 

[janxharris]

- I've been through all this with you before.... So stop putting words in my mouth, misinterpreting what I say, and making incorrect assumptions about Calvinism. Thanks.

Not on this thread did you respond to the OP:
Paul considered that Christ's resurrection was of universal salvific benefit

 

[janxharris]

Correct. And the apostles NEVER did that. They had the authority to know who would come to believe and they told THEM to believe in the resurrection.

1. Acts 2:22-41

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

2. Any Israelite reading Romans 10 has v.9 directed towards him.

 

[Jack Terrence]

1. Acts 2:22-41

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Those who accepted Peter's message on that occasion was ALL of them.

2. Any Israelite reading Romans 10 has v.9 directed towards him.

Verse 8 says that the word of faith which the apostles proclaimed was already in their mouths and in their hearts. So their message was directed only to those they knew would believe.

 

[janxharris]

Those who accepted Peter's message on that occasion was ALL of them.

'Those who accepted' implies not all did. It certainly does not imply all.

Verse 8 says that the word of faith which the apostles proclaimed was already in their mouths and in their hearts. So their message was directed only to those they knew would believe.

Paul went through crowds of people picking out using such knowledge and spoke in private to them?

Paul peached Christ crucified and it was his ambition to preach to unbelievers.

In Thessalonica, not all believed (Acts 17:1-9). Not even in Berea (Ibid. vv.10-15) did all believe:

v.12
As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

In Athens, too, not all believed (ibid. vv.16-34):

v.34
Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.

 

[AndOne]

Not on this thread did you respond to the OP:
Paul considered that Christ's resurrection was of universal salvific benefit

No -

 

[Jack Terrence]

'Those who accepted' implies not all did. It certainly does not imply all.

No, it does NOT imply that.

Paul peached Christ crucified and it was his ambition to preach to unbelievers.

We have been over this so many times now. Paul said that in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith," not from unbelief to faith. Abraham believed God BEFORE He believed unto salvation. Abraham was NEVER an unbeliever before he was saved. Cornelius believed God BEFORE he believed unto salvation. He was NOT an unbeliever before he believed unto salvation. The gospel brings men "from faith to faith," not from unbelief to faith.

In Thessalonica, not all believed (Acts 17:1-9). Not even in Berea (Ibid. vv.10-15) did all believe:

v.12
As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

Paul did NOT call men to believe and repent on that occasion. He was only proving to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. He was speaking as an apologist, not as an evangelist. As a consequence some of them believed.

In Athens, too, not all believed (ibid. vv.16-34):

v.34
Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.

Paul did NOT seek out the Athenians. He was literally "dragged" there by his enemies. He seized the occasion to inform them about the nature of God in general. He did NOT call them to believe and repent. He said what he had to say expecting that it would be rejected and then departed from among them.

 

[janxharris]

Paul did NOT call men to believe and repent on that occasion. He was only proving to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. He was speaking as an apologist, not as an evangelist. As a consequence some of them believed.

Acts 17:2-5
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

 

[janxharris]

No, it does NOT imply that.

How does 'Those who accepted' imply all rather than some?

We have been over this so many times now. Paul said that in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith," not from unbelief to faith. Abraham believed God BEFORE He believed unto salvation. Abraham was NEVER an unbeliever before he was saved. Cornelius believed God BEFORE he believed unto salvation. He was NOT an unbeliever before he believed unto salvation. The gospel brings men "from faith to faith," not from unbelief to faith.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

I'm not sure of your point. I think you are reading your theology into Paul's words.

Paul did NOT seek out the Athenians. He was literally "dragged" there by his enemies. He seized the occasion to inform them about the nature of God in general. He did NOT call them to believe and repent. He said what he had to say expecting that it would be rejected and then departed from among them.

Paul was not dragged there - in any case, it is not relevant to the debate.

Acts 17:16-18
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

 

[janxharris]

Paul's ambition was to preach the gospel to unbelievers Romans 15:20. He preached Christ crucified 1 Cor. 1:23.

 

[janxharris]

Quite clearly, Paul preached salvation through belief in the resurrection to whomever. Only if Jesus died for all can he have risen for all.

Paul preaching Romans 10:9 whilst maintaining that the resurrection was not for all, is not just a contradiction - it constitutes a lie.

 

[OzSpen]

Quite clearly, Paul preached salvation through belief in the resurrection to whomever. Only if Jesus died for all can he have risen for all.

Paul preaching Romans 10:9 whilst maintaining that the resurrection was not for all, is not just a contradiction - it constitutes a lie.

 

[janxharris]

Correct. And the apostles NEVER did that. They had the authority to know who would come to believe and they told THEM to believe in the resurrection.

Another example (as per the OP):

Acts 18:1-6
After this, Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

 

[OzSpen]

Paul did NOT seek out the Athenians. He was literally "dragged" there by his enemies. He seized the occasion to inform them about the nature of God in general. He did NOT call them to believe and repent. He said what he had to say expecting that it would be rejected and then departed from among them.

Which Bible are you reading? We are discussing Paul on the Areopagus and he clearly called people to repentance. What is recorded in Acts 17:30? 'The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE TO REPENT' (ESV).

I urge you to read the text as it provides evidence to refute your claim that Paul did not call them to believe and REPENT.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Acts 17:2-5
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

How does this contradict my analysis?

You have ignored a chief point of mine. In Romans 1 Paul said that in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith," not from unbelief to faith. I gave the examples of Abraham and Cornelius who believed God BEFORE they believed unto salvation. I now add Lydia to the list. She believed God BEFORE she believed unto salvation.

I had also pointed out to you that Paul said that the reason that those who confess Jesus and believe that God raised Him from the dead is because they ALREADY have the word of faith in their mouths and in their hearts (Romans 10:8-10). You commented on this out of its context. I put it in context for you and then you ignored it.

The implication is CLEAR. The apostles called BELIEVERS ONLY to salvation. One must believe God before he can believe in Christ. Jesus said, "Believe in God, believe also in Me."

 

[janxharris]

How does this contradict my analysis?

You have ignored a chief point of mine. In Romans 1 Paul said that in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith," not from unbelief to faith. I gave the examples of Abraham and Cornelius who believed God BEFORE they believed unto salvation. I now add Lydia to the list. She believed God BEFORE she believed unto salvation.

I had also pointed out to you that Paul said that the reason that those who confess Jesus and believe that God raised Him from the dead is because they ALREADY have the word of faith in their mouths and in their hearts (Romans 10:8-10). You commented on this out of its context. I put it in context for you and then you ignored it.

The implication is CLEAR. The apostles called BELIEVERS ONLY to salvation. One must believe God before he can believe in Christ. Jesus said, "Believe in God, believe also in Me."

Paul preached and not everyone believed. You said that he and the apostles knew who would believe and only preached to them.

janxharris
It is not okay to tell one of those ones whom you say salvation was never intended for to believe in the resurrection (which was not intended for them) for their salvation.

You:
Correct. And the apostles NEVER did that. They had the authority to know who would come to believe and they told THEM to believe in the resurrection.

 

[janxharris]

Calvinism has been shown to be untenable regarding Romans 10 - for it would not be right for Paul to tell one of those ones whom Calvinists say salvation was never intended for to believe in the resurrection (which was not intended for them) for their salvation.

Paul preached v.9 because he knew that not one person was not provided for - he knew that Christ died and rose for everyone.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Calvinism has been shown to be untenable regarding Romans 10 - for it would not be right for Paul to tell one of those ones whom Calvinists say salvation was never intended for to believe in the resurrection (which was not intended for them) for their salvation.

Paul preached v.9 because he knew that not one person was not provided for - he knew that Christ died and rose for everyone.

Nope! Verse 8 says that the word of faith is in the mouths and hearts of men PRIOR to their coming to faith. This excludes some men. Jesus said that the word had "no place" in the Jewish leadership of His day.

You have proven NOTHING. You are wasting your time and energy.