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AntiCrash

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The joke fails if I have to explain it. If you look up funny church signs on Google images, you might see a similar one.
images
I would figure that if people didn't hear about hell they wouldn't have a frame of reference to coerce other people.
 
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I would figure that if people didn't hear about hell they wouldn't have a frame of reference to coerce other people.
A person who has been truly converted to Christ (which is something only God can do in a person), then hell becomes a non-issue, because he or she is not going there.

Hey, if there is the treat of going to prison, or even the death penalty if you murder someone, would you think you are being coerced into not murdering those you hate, by the criminal law?
 
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AntiCrash

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A person who has been truly converted to Christ (which is something only God can do in a person), then hell becomes a non-issue, because he or she is not going there.

Hey, if there is the treat of going to prison, or even the death penalty if you murder someone, would you think you are being coerced into not murdering those you hate, by the criminal law?
I've talked with plenty of Christian's who still to this day fear hell.
 
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I've talked with plenty of Christian's who still to this day fear hell.
They may not be truly converted to Christ, but have just "got" religion. Putting on the badge of Christianity doesn't make a person a true Christian.
 
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AntiCrash

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They may not be truly converted to Christ, but have just "got" religion. Putting on the badge of Christianity doesn't make a person a true Christian.
What about Christian's who commit offenses knowing they will go to hell, but at the same time acquit themselves of their action's because in their mind God forgives them.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What about Christian's who commit offenses knowing they will go to hell, but at the same time acquit themselves of their action's because in their mind God forgives them.

Who are these unfortunate individuals, AntiCrash? o_O
 
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What about Christian's who commit offenses knowing they will go to hell, but at the same time acquit themselves of their action's because in their mind God forgives them.
Just as I said: not everyone who professes Christianity and puts on the "badge" is a genuine Christian. You may be describing the actions of hypocrite and not a real Christian.
 
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AntiCrash

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Who are these unfortunate individuals, AntiCrash? o_O
It's not uncommon for Christian's to be like that. Any Christian really, the true believers are worse because they really believe they're acquitted on all accounts.
 
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AntiCrash

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Just as I said: not everyone who professes Christianity and puts on the "badge" is a genuine Christian. You may be describing the actions of hypocrite and not a real Christian.
Since knowing a real Christian from a fake is wholly subjective, any believer can delude themselves that they are the chosen one's.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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It's not uncommon for Christian's to be like that. Any Christian really, the true believers are worse because they really believe they're acquitted on all accounts.
I'm sure you're right. Some people claim to be Christian but still presume to take their sins lightly. However, I think it's kind of strange they would do this when Paul the Apostle tells us in the letter to the Philippians (3:12-16) that even though he knew God loved him, he didn't assume he had yet fully attained a status of salvation, or that he was yet perfected. In fact, just after Paul says this about himself, he then warns the Philippians to be careful because he knew there were some individuals among them who, although perhaps baptized and associating in the church, weren't really following God's Will:

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ... Philippians 3:18
So, you're right; people who claim to be Christian, even those who think they're "true believers," need to be careful to examine their lives and hearts since apparently it appears that some will actually come up short on the Day of Judgment.
 
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Since knowing a real Christian from a fake is wholly subjective, any believer can delude themselves that they are the chosen one's.
Of course they can, and many do. But when a person is genuinely converted to Christ, they have an inner knowledge and confirmation from the Holy Spirit that they have been born again and are in the kingdom of God. A religious person who has never been through that total transformation in their heart and spirit is acting on presumption and not faith. Saving faith is given by the Holy Spirit and is not given automatically just because someone decides to "get" religion.
 
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Hieronymus

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It's not uncommon for Christian's to be like that. Any Christian really, the true believers are worse because they really believe they're acquitted on all accounts.
Come on...
They believe God forgives when you're sorry and change your ways.
It's not a permit to sin.
You know this too.
 
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I'm sure you're right. Some people claim to be Christian but still presume to take their sins lightly. However, I think it's kind of strange they would do this when Paul the Apostle tells us in the letter to the Philippians (3:12-16) that even though he knew God loved him, he didn't assume he had yet fully attained a status of salvation, or that he was yet perfected. In fact, just after Paul says this about himself, he then warns the Philippians to be careful because he knew there were some individuals among them who, although perhaps baptized and associating in the church, weren't really following God's Will:

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ... Philippians 3:18
So, you're right; people who claim to be Christian, even those who think they're "true believers," need to be careful to examine their lives and hearts since apparently it appears that some will actually come up short on the Day of Judgment.
It is interesting to note that Paul said that when he was a Pharisee, he was blameless according to the Law. That means he didn't sin. Actually he lived a much more perfect and righteous life than most Christians do today! Yet, it was not good enough to save him. He believed implicitly in God and kept God's Laws to the letter, without a single fault, yet he was still lost.

The act of "accepting Christ" is not found in Acts. The references say that they "turned" to Christ. This means they thoroughly repented, gave up their pagan ways and turned totally to Christ. They realized that Christ came to save them from their sins and not in them.

Paul said that "there is nothing good in me", which means his sinless and lawful life was no good in God's sight. He needed a personal encounter with Christ to change his direction. But he still struggled with his flesh, because he says "there is noting good in me, that is, in my flesh." But he also said that those who live in the flesh cannot please God; in other words, they cannot be saved no matter how religious they become.

Paul had his personal encounter with Christ on the Damascus Road, but he was not converted until Ananias came and laid his hands on him and got him baptised with the Holy Spirit. That's when the transformation took place. Then, he took himself off to Arabia to spend time alone with God to bond himself into the Christian faith, and for God to complete the transformation. Then he got back to Antioch and was just a member of the group, until the Holy Spirit called him and Barnabas out for ministry.

This is so different from those who walk up to the front, make a profession of Christianity and then straightaway think they have everything and go around trying to convert others, when they are not fully converted themselves!
 
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AntiCrash

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Come on...
They believe God forgives when you're sorry and change your ways.
It's not a permit to sin.
You know this too.
No I do not, what I know is that Christianity tells us that there is nothing we can do to change ourselves. If we could then we would be credited for the transformational power of the spirit.
 
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AntiCrash

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It is interesting to note that Paul said that when he was a Pharisee, he was blameless according to the Law. That means he didn't sin. Actually he lived a much more perfect and righteous life than most Christians do today! Yet, it was not good enough to save him. He believed implicitly in God and kept God's Laws to the letter, without a single fault, yet he was still lost.

The act of "accepting Christ" is not found in Acts. The references say that they "turned" to Christ. This means they thoroughly repented, gave up their pagan ways and turned totally to Christ. They realized that Christ came to save them from their sins and not in them.

Paul said that "there is nothing good in me", which means his sinless and lawful life was no good in God's sight. He needed a personal encounter with Christ to change his direction. But he still struggled with his flesh, because he says "there is noting good in me, that is, in my flesh." But he also said that those who live in the flesh cannot please God; in other words, they cannot be saved no matter how religious they become.

Paul had his personal encounter with Christ on the Damascus Road, but he was not converted until Ananias came and laid his hands on him and got him baptised with the Holy Spirit. That's when the transformation took place. Then, he took himself off to Arabia to spend time alone with God to bond himself into the Christian faith, and for God to complete the transformation. Then he got back to Antioch and was just a member of the group, until the Holy Spirit called him and Barnabas out for ministry.

This is so different from those who walk up to the front, make a profession of Christianity and then straightaway think they have everything and go around trying to convert others, when they are not fully converted themselves!
It's always some story about a biblical character, and how they relate to us. If something is going on in your life, there's a Bible story that fit's. Forget about understanding people where they are, because someone already went through that.

Your trouble's are not unique.
 
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Hieronymus

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No I do not, what I know is that Christianity tells us that there is nothing we can do to change ourselves. If we could then we would be credited for the transformational power of the spirit.
It's not a permit to sin.
You know this.
There may be people who think it is though, but i wouldn't call them Christians.
 
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AntiCrash

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It's not a permit to sin.
You know this.
There may be people who think it is though, but i wouldn't call them Christians.
No, but believer's also believe that they will sin. Even if it's not a voluntary act they still do sin. But their personal responsibility for their sins are minimized due to their belief that Jesus will forgive them.
 
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Hieronymus

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No, but believer's also believe that they will sin. Even if it's not a voluntary act they still do sin. But their personal responsibility for their sins are minimized due to their belief that Jesus will forgive them.
You describe a permit to sin again.
You describe hypocrisy.
The repentance that goes with the Faith does rather the opposite of minimizing personal responsibility.

But i'm unsubbing from this thread too now.
You be well, and i hope you get over your bad experiences so that you won't feel the need to accuse everything Christian anymore.
Take care.
:wave:
 
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