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2PhiloVoid

Other scholars got to me before you did!
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Why is it a common trait in most Christians I meet that they think that with their beliefs they can help everyone? While they force their brand of faith on you they do nothing to change themselves. Always trying to fix everyone they fail to see what they have become, and a hole they dig themselves into.

They're so busy working out other people's salvation that they are blinded by their own actions. If Jesus can save you why am I seeing the worst results? Sorry to say it but Jesus is either not there or not on your side.

Wow! You must know some lunk-headed people, AC! As for me in my Christian faith, I'm fairly confident that I can't help most people most of the time. No, I fully realize that many of our problems are going to take something stronger, bigger, deeper and more substantive than simply swatting people with quotes from the Bible. :rolleyes:

But welcome to CF, anyway!

2PhiloVoid
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Conviction of sin and the realisation of the wrath God for sin is something that the Holy Spirit reveals to those to whom God reveals it. He said that He will have mercy on those whom He will have mercy and will ignore those who He will ignore. The conviction of sin and the terrible anger and wrath of God for sin is the act of mercy on a soul He has chosen to saved. If that person has not received that, then God is leaving him alone to die in his sin and to face the horrifying and fearful judgment. All our friend is demonstrating is that although God is giving the general invitation for folks to believe the Gospel and come to Christ, He is not doing the specific work of conviction in him. Perhaps because our friend is adamant in his rejection of the God of the Bible, that He might think He is wasting His time doing anything specific in Him.

"It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment" and, "We must all give an account of ourselves to God." One day our friend will stand before God in the judgment and will plead for mercy and say, "I didn't know!" Then God will tell him that the invitation was there and he rejected it and that several people on CF tried to persuade him to believe, but he turned them down, so he can't blame anyone else but himself.

Outer darkness when men shall wail and gnash their teeth is a blank nothingness, in which the person is totally conscious - like being down in a cavern in the depths of the earth where there is absolutely no light. I was in once of those caverns once when they turned all the torches off. The darkness was oppressive, and I was so glad when they turned the torches on again. Just imagine spending eternity in total darkness! That would be an absolute hell even without the fire and brimstone to go along with it!
 
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AntiCrash

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Conviction of sin and the realisation of the wrath God for sin is something that the Holy Spirit reveals to those to whom God reveals it. He said that He will have mercy on those whom He will have mercy and will ignore those who He will ignore. The conviction of sin and the terrible anger and wrath of God for sin is the act of mercy on a soul He has chosen to saved. If that person has not received that, then God is leaving him alone to die in his sin and to face the horrifying and fearful judgment. All our friend is demonstrating is that although God is giving the general invitation for folks to believe the Gospel and come to Christ, He is not doing the specific work of conviction in him. Perhaps because our friend is adamant in his rejection of the God of the Bible, that He might think He is wasting His time doing anything specific in Him.

"It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment" and, "We must all give an account of ourselves to God." One day our friend will stand before God in the judgment and will plead for mercy and say, "I didn't know!" Then God will tell him that the invitation was there and he rejected it and that several people on CF tried to persuade him to believe, but he turned them down, so he can't blame anyone else but himself.

Outer darkness when men shall wail and gnash their teeth is a blank nothingness, in which the person is totally conscious - like being down in a cavern in the depths of the earth where there is absolutely no light. I was in once of those caverns once when they turned all the torches off. The darkness was oppressive, and I was so glad when they turned the torches on again. Just imagine spending eternity in total darkness! That would be an absolute hell even without the fire and brimstone to go along with it!
Not even the bible knows what hell is like, it contradicts itself on the subject matter.

Is hell

A: Fire
B: Death
C: Darkness
 
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Hieronymus

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Not even the bible knows what hell is like, it contradicts itself on the subject matter.

Is hell

A: Fire
B: Death
C: Darkness
That's why scholars and enthusiasts study the old translations and manuscripts, and that's why new translations are published.
Especially in this www age there's a lot of development in understanding the Bible better, because there's much more communication between scholars and enthusiasts.
Te darkness is where the dead go to primarily.
The fire is after Judgement, which will be a big event where every person will have to give account for their lives.
John 3:16
So it's ultimately life or death (perished).

This is a tricky subject though, because the traditional teaching is that all people will live forever, some in
"hell" (bad) and some in Heaven (good).
However, the Bible is quite clear, except for a few verses, that it is life in heaven or death in hell. Not life in hell.
The fire consumes. It does not leave anything in tact.

Here's a quote by Charles Darwin:
"I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my father, brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished.
And this is a damnable doctrine."

Fortunately, when actually studying the relevant texts, it becomes quite clear that God will destroy what He deems evil.
Destruction rather than eternal conscious torment.
But unfortunately many Christians seem to prefer that God tortures the creatures He did not draw towards Him for ever and ever without an end or outcome.
That's the traditional teaching, which nearly cost me my Faith (trust) in God when i believed it too (because most Christians seem to believe this).
I can only hate God when He tortures his creatures He didn't draw towards Him.
And that would mean i would end up in eternal conscious torment too.
You can imagine how i felt in those days....
 
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AntiCrash

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That's why scholars and enthusiasts study the old translations and manuscripts, and that's why new translations are published.
Especially in this www age there's a lot of development in understanding the Bible better, because there's much more communication between scholars and enthusiasts.
Te darkness is where the dead go to primarily.
The fire is after Judgement, which will be a big event where every person will have to give account for their lives.
John 3:16
So it's ultimately life or death (perished).

This is a tricky subject though, because the traditional teaching is that all people will live forever, some in
"hell" (bad) and some in Heaven (good).
However, the Bible is quite clear, except for a few verses, that it is life in heaven or death in hell. Not life in hell.
The fire consumes. It does not leave anything in tact.

Here's a quote by Charles Darwin:
"I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my father, brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished.
And this is a damnable doctrine."

Fortunately, when actually studying the relevant texts, it becomes quite clear that God will destroy what He deems evil.
Destruction rather than eternal conscious torment.
But unfortunately many Christians seem to prefer that God tortures the creatures He did not draw towards Him for ever and ever without an end or outcome.
That's the traditional teaching, which nearly cost me my Faith (trust) in God when i believed it too (because most Christians seem to believe this).
I can only hate God when He tortures his creatures He didn't draw towards Him.
And that would mean i would end up in eternal conscious torment too.
You can imagine how i felt in those days....
Thankfully there's absolutely no evidence for a place called hell.
 
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Thankfully there's absolutely no evidence for a place called hell.
I wonder if there are many people who are now in hell wailing, "I thought there was no evidence of this place!!!"
 
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Do you actually know hell exists, or is it another thing you have to believe in?
I saw a notice outside an Aussie church once. It said "If you want to know what hell is like, come and hear our Minister preach!"
 
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I don't get it.
The joke fails if I have to explain it. If you look up funny church signs on Google images, you might see a similar one.
images
 
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