Accept Christ's Word in Mark 7:6-13 - or reject it??

[disciple1]

Romans 9 is not in the least contradictory to -


Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

"THIS IS the NEW Covenant I will make with the house of Israel ... I will write MY LAWS on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33.

"for it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW will be justiFIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16

Irrefutable.

Its about "obedience to the Word of God" but not apart from faith AND not "works of the law"

=============================

And WHY is it not contradicting those texts??

Romans 9:31-32
" Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works"

And of course the texts I quote - are about "obedience to the Word of God" but not apart from faith AND not "works of the law"

the point remains.

Read it again or I'll just think one of us has no understanding.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed, when I show them proof we are to keep the law, they say "well he said that while he was under the law, it's not for us". Not sure why Jesus would give a command near the end of his life if it will be done away with shortly, seems double minded and pointless.

Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

We should listen to people who preach Moses, but not follow their works (their traditions).

Very good point!

 

[BobRyan]

Read it again or I'll just think one of us has no understanding.

I am already thinking that since in that post I quoted Romans 9 for you and showed how it fit in with the rest of scripture.

 

[Raggedyman]

Jesus died to forgive sin, His death ushered in a WHOLE new covenant

Christians are not subject to any of the OT laws, not even one
I cant get my head around a person who would impose that kind of fundamentalism on others
Jesus said do all things from out of love, love covers many sins.
Love should be the motivator, NOT the law.
You become a Pharisee, hypocrit if you let the law demand, love is the whole ofthe law.
Do your works in love, love serves Christ in everything. Let love of Christ guide your every move
The law is for the unsaved, grace, working from the foundation of Christs love is the law for christians

Jesus said die to yourselves, not subject yourselves to Judaism.
Christs law, read the Sermon on the mount

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus died to forgive sin, His death ushered in a WHOLE new covenant

Sounds like your vote is "reject Christ's words in Mark 7 -- it was before the cross"

Hint - Matt 28 the great commission was to teach all that Christ had taught.

As for the NEW Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-33 "THIS is the Covenant I will make ... I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

Hebrews 8:6-10 "THIS is the Covenant I will make ... I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

-- Bible details matter

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" -- still... in the NT

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

For all eternity after the cross
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Do your works in love, love serves Christ in everything. Let love of Christ guide your every move

Ex 20:6 "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you LOVE Me - KEEP My Commandments"

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

==============

So then Mark 7:6-13 the Commandments of God = "Word of God" = 'Moses said' -- according to the Gospel... according to CHRIST.

Example in Mark 7 -- is of the 5th commandment.

Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

FIRST - where?

Answer: -- first command in the TEN Commandments with a promise.

Give me the Bible instead of the traditions and narratives - speculations of man.

 

[Raggedyman]

Sounds like your vote is "reject Christ's words in Mark 7 -- it was before the cross"

Hint - Matt 28 the great commission was to teach all that Christ had taught.

As for the NEW Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-33 "THIS is the Covenant I will make ... I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

Hebrews 8:6-10 "THIS is the Covenant I will make ... I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

-- Bible details matter

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" -- still... in the NT

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

For all eternity after the cross
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23



Ex 20:6 "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you LOVE Me - KEEP My Commandments"

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

==============

So then Mark 7:6-13 the Commandments of God = "Word of God" = 'Moses said' -- according to the Gospel... according to CHRIST.

Example in Mark 7 -- is of the 5th commandment.

Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

FIRST - where?

Answer: -- first command in the TEN Commandments with a promise.

Give me the Bible instead of the traditions and narratives - speculations of man.

Wow, you sure know how to cut a few words out of the bible reading to sway a whole argument your way
Is that fair though
I am sure I could cut small statements out of the bible as well and string them into any sentences I like to justify myself
Context is the whole point of reading scripture, pray and meditate on the word

Hint, do you believe in circumcision, have you heard Paul say cut your whole genitalia off, have you considered that option

What OT laws do you follow, what ones do you choose to ignore

Yes I do believe what Jesus was saying in Mark 7, can I recommend you read all of Mark 7, maybe the whole gospel and Mark
Jesus was teaching Pharisees Judaism, He wasn't teaching Christians Christianity

The commandments are demands, Christ taught love , you have missed the message
OT Command," honour your parents"
Request to Christians who serve Christ because they love Him, "love your parents"

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus died to forgive sin, His death ushered in a WHOLE new covenant

Sounds like your vote is "reject Christ's words in Mark 7 -- it was before the cross"

Hint - Matt 28 the great commission was to teach all that Christ had taught.

As for the NEW Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-33 "THIS is the Covenant I will make ... I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

Hebrews 8:6-10 "THIS is the Covenant I will make ... I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

-- Bible details matter

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" -- still... in the NT

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

For all eternity after the cross
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Do your works in love, love serves Christ in everything. Let love of Christ guide your every move

Ex 20:6 "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you LOVE Me - KEEP My Commandments"

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

==============

So then Mark 7:6-13 the Commandments of God = "Word of God" = 'Moses said' -- according to the Gospel... according to CHRIST.

Example in Mark 7 -- is of the 5th commandment.

Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

FIRST - where?

Answer: -- first command in the TEN Commandments with a promise.

Give me the Bible instead of the traditions and narratives - speculations of man.

Wow, you sure know how to cut a few words out of the bible

We call it "sola scriptra" -

some people prefer that to simply "quoting themselves" -- as I am sure we both know.

I am sure I could cut small statements out of the bible as well

often we find that those who simply quote themselves - tend to imagine that it would be easy to quote the bible to make their arguments ..

Well you have free will - you can do as you please.

Yes I do believe what Jesus was saying in Mark 7, can I recommend you read all of Mark 7

Is that your entire comment on Mark 7??

really?

I prefer the actual "Bible details" in the text.

 

[BobRyan]

a lot of people would like to think that the teaching of Christ in the gospels - is a good thing. I am one of them.

=================================================


Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

 

[Raggedyman]

a lot of people would like to think that the teaching of Christ in the gospels - is a good thing. I am one of them.

=================================================


Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

Christ was talking to Jewish law makers about the Jewish law, can you not see that in the first seven verses of Mark 7 you have chosen to ignore
Christ was being berated for not keeping the law by the Pharisees, did you not notice that the Jews were attacking Christ and His followers for not washing their hands, breaking the OT law

By the way, what laws do we keep and what OT laws do we do away with, do SDA still stone people???

I guess Monty Python got it right, Jesus was a naughty boy, or knew something you dont

Look, in Mark

Mark 12:30-31New International Version (NIV)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.There is no commandment greater than these.”

So ALL OTHER COMMANDS submit to these commands except sometimes I guess

Believe what you need to believe, its your choice and right, just dont pretend you know everything and are right and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong, thats rude, arrogant, self righteous and is not fruit of the Spirit

Galatians 5:22-23New International Version (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control Against such things there is no law.

Or then you can work on the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount


I am NOT a Jew, I dont follow the Law, I serve God, in Jesus because I love Him and what to love and serve others as best I can because He first loved me.

The law is nothing

 

[BobRyan]

Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

Christ was talking to Jewish law makers about the Jewish law

Christ does not say He was quoting the "Word of JEW" in his statement - as some would much-imagine. He does not say His rule is the "Commandment of JEW" as some would much imagine when "quoting themselves".

The actual text says Christ calls Exodus 20 "The Word of GOD" and the "Commandment of GOD".

This is sad for some doctrines that much-imagine that his "Honor your Father and Mother" reference was "just for Jews".

Christ was being berated for not keeping the law by the Pharisees

Indeed - they enjoyed "quoting themselves" as their "bible" - but Christ chooses instead to quote the "Word of God".

This is a difficult concept for some.

, did you not notice that the Jews were attacking Christ and His followers for not washing their hands, breaking the OT law

Here again your much-imagined text "is you" -- there is no such OT law my friend.

Your argument needs more Bible and less "you quote you".

I guess Monty Python got it right, Jesus was a naughty boy, or knew something you dont

Ahhh finally you quote something other than "you" --

Look, in Mark

Mark 12:30-31New International Version (NIV)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.There is no commandment greater than these.”

So ALL OTHER COMMANDS submit to these commands except sometimes I guess

Hint:

"Love God with all your heart and soul" Deut 6:5 -- Jesus was quoting the very Bible you condemn in your posts.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 -- -- Jesus was quoting the very Bible you condemn in your posts.

These OT commands did not delete the OT when they were written and they do not delete it now. In fact Christ claims they form the immovable indestructible foundation upon which all the Bible is based.

That's right - he affirmed the very bible you have chosen to condemn.

Just as he was doing in Mark 7:6-13 (which you are avoiding).

Believe what you need to believe, its your choice and right, you have free will

 

[Raggedyman]

Why do you always start at verse 7
Hiding somethings?

And no I don't condemn the bible, that's foolish talk, you are trying to box shadows

Why are you ignoring the questions I asked you, I would appreciate a sincere answer

 

[BobRyan]

And no I don't condemn the bible,

Then you will enjoy Jesus' affirmation of the Bible as we see in this example -

Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!!

 

[BobRyan]

Why are you ignoring the questions I asked you, I would appreciate a sincere answer

Please point to a sincere question - I am happy to answer it.

 

[Raggedyman]

Please point to a sincere question - I am happy to answer it.

Why not stone sinners according to the OT

 

[BobRyan]

Why not stone sinners according to the OT

See my signature line? -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith

Section 19 of each of those documents - explains it for you -- and they don't even keep the bible Sabbath - yet they know the Bible answer and have stated it plainly in their documents. It has to do with the theocracy that existed before the time of Christ.

 

[Raggedyman]

See my signature line? -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith

Section 19 of each of those documents - explains it for you -- and they don't even keep the bible Sabbath - yet they know the Bible answer and have stated it plainly in their documents. It has to do with the theocracy that existed before the time of Christ.

So you hide
Don't blame you
I never expected an answer from you so I wasn't surprised

Ok how about why does Jesus say that love is the law
Galatians 5.14

See Bob, because I believe you to be a weak Christian, needing the law, I would worship on a Sunday, Saturday whatever you needed, me though, I worship everyday.
I wouldn't eat pork because it may cause you offense, pork, crabs, no food is off limits, it's more important what comes out than goes in, that's from the bible did you know?
But, me, I don't need the law, I have Jesus, I love Him and He me

You have the law, good for you

 

[BobRyan]

So you hide
Don't blame you
I never expected an answer

Not hiding - I am pointing out that the answer is so obvious that even your own pro-Sunday scholars admit to it.

Were we simply 'not supposed to notice'???

Your practice of "avoiding details" is not serving your argument well.

In Mark 7 -- Christ charges that the Jews were "avoiding the details" in their efforts to sustain their own traditions.

Probably not a good model to follow.

 

[Raggedyman]

Not hiding - I am pointing out that the answer is so obvious that even your own pro-Sunday scholars admit to it.

Were we simply 'not supposed to notice'???

Your practice of "avoiding details" is not serving your argument well.

In Mark 7 -- Christ charges that the Jews were "avoiding the details" in their efforts to sustain their own traditions.

Probably not a good model to follow.

Funny, they seem to be YOUR scholars not mine
I am not a SUNDAY worship person, as I stated before, I worship God everyday, I am not a subject to your law
The details, I am not subject to the law, get that, it's not a minor detail, I serve from love as Christ requested or commandment, no separate Sunday worship from me, it's everyday

I asked a question, it still remains, floating in the ether somewhere, feel free to answer it for yourself if you wish

What OT laws do we have to subm it to and what ones can we ignore, should I bold and make that question a pretty red colour for you





no more stoning people or do you seventh days still follow that law as well...


It's ok, the question was rhetorical, I knew you wouldn't couldn't answer it, please go worship Saturday or Sunday as you feel lead, just don't tell me I have to, you don't have that right, fundamentalists are the poison of the church, demanding and then condemning
I am condemned, judged as unrighteous because I don't worship on a Sunday, guess that makes me a non Christian in your book

I guess the part of the bible where it states there is no condemnation in Christ is left out of the Adventist version
All the best with that

 

[BobRyan]

Funny, they seem to be YOUR scholars not mine
I am not a SUNDAY worship person, as I stated before, I worship God everyday

You don't go to church at all???

Consider reading Hebrews 10.

 

[BobRyan]

What OT laws do we have to subm it to and what ones can we ignore, should I bold and make that question a pretty red colour for you

Consider accepting the Words of Christ in Mark 7 as the start -



Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.